Garmin 430 repair rumors - Finally finished??

[Mark89114]

My avionics guy said Garmin issued a Service order that they can no longer repair 430's if they need new displays.....naturally I was about to send mine in.....

Anybody know how true this is or isn't or are they just pre-signaling?

 

[KSMooniac]

you might try Bevan Aviation in Wichita... they're still working on the GNS series.

[LANCECASPER]

18 minutes ago, Mark89114 said:

My avionics guy said Garmin issued a Service order that they can no longer repair 430's if they need new displays.....naturally I was about to send mine in.....

Anybody know how true this is or isn't or are they just pre-signaling?

 

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=225805

[Mark89114]

11 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=225805

Yeah, that was me complaining about it.......

Garmin clearly doesn't want to support these anymore.  

[Rwsavory]

Just like you don’t send a KX 155 to Bendix King for repairs. Send it to Bevan. There are enough of these units in service that there will probably be others stepping up to the plate as well. 

[Mark89114]

It is my understanding that the only operation that can legally repair these is Garmin as they are the only ones who have the repair/support manuals.  Personally I don’t care about that for a screen repair.  Found a guy in MN who says the screens can be repaired for $400.  Going to give it a try.

[LANCECASPER]

16 minutes ago, Mark89114 said:

Yeah, that was me complaining about it.......

Garmin clearly doesn't want to support these anymore.  

I think they did a pretty good job supporting them for 25 years. They advised people a year ago where they stood on parts and that supplies were running low.  They are still supporting them, but they won't sell you a display for a 430, not because they don't want to, it's because they don't have any.

Their ability to source, now considered ancient, 8 color LCD displays that would match the specs for a certified device designed that many years ago just doesn't exist. To put in a different display that's available 25 years later would mean completely re-certifying the device - that's not going to happen.  They are still able to do other service, just not the display. However they are saying that if you send it in and want their "return to service" signature on it - they can't do that legally if the display is bad or going bad. They would gladly sell you the $1500 (just a guess) display if they had them.  If they wanted to force you to stop using a serviceable unit - they would simply stop providing databases for it, not displays.

They still have a supply of displays for the 530 series and they are making those available until they run out. At that point 530 owners will still be able to have their units serviced, unless it involves the display.  Eventually they will run out of parts for both of these units and the ones that are still functioning will be useful, but they will be on borrowed time. 

When these units came out they were game-changing, but at the same time one of the prices we pay for faster-changing technology is that these units aren't going to be around as long as King KX-170 radios.

[KSMooniac]

21 minutes ago, Mark89114 said:

It is my understanding that the only operation that can legally repair these is Garmin as they are the only ones who have the repair/support manuals.  Personally I don’t care about that for a screen repair.  Found a guy in MN who says the screens can be repaired for $400.  Going to give it a try.

Not true.  Talk to Bevan.

[OR75]

4 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I think they did a pretty good job supporting them for 25 years. They advised people a year ago where they stood on parts and that supplies were running low.  They are still supporting them, but they won't sell you a display for a 430, not because they don't want to, it's because they don't have any.

Their ability to source, now considered ancient, 8 color LCD displays that would match the specs for a certified device designed that many years ago just doesn't exist. To put in a different display that's available 25 years later would mean completely re-certifying the device - that's not going to happen.  They are still able to do other service, just not the display. However they are saying that if you send it in and want their "return to service" signature on it - they can't do that legally if the display is bad or going bad. They would gladly sell you the $1500 (just a guess) display if they had them.  If they wanted to force you to stop using a serviceable unit - they would simply stop providing databases for it, not displays.

They still have a supply of displays for the 530 series and they are making those available until they run out. At that point 530 owners will still be able to have their units serviced, unless it involves the display.  Eventually they will run out of parts for both of these units and the ones that are still functioning will be useful, but they will be on borrowed time. 

When these units came out they were game-changing, but at the same time one of the prices we pay for faster-changing technology is that these units aren't going to be around as long as King KX-170 radios.

agreed they did a great job supporting the units so far and gave warning to the owners base.

However, the $500 to be told that the unit is toast does not feel right . I doubt it costs that much to make that assessment 

 

 

[Jake@BevanAviation]

I encourage anyone that has any issue with a GNS unit to please contact Bevan Aviation and talk to Mike or Zach to see if we can possibly repair the unit.

[KSMooniac]

I'll also add that I do not believe Bevan will charge you $500 to tell you they cannot repair it, either. 

[SQAUWK1202]

I would encourage anyone who has an issue with a GNS unit to pull it out and install a GTN650 OR GTN750

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, SQAUWK1202 said:

I would encourage anyone who has an issue with a GNS unit to pull it out and install a GTN650 OR GTN750

Good option if you’re interested in major panel surgery with a different size unit and different rack.  Yes its more capable.

people can also use avidyne 440 slide in replacement or buy used 430s or gnc355 type units which are a little less expensive than the 650s although they require a new rack too.  Repair of 430s is a great option if it’s available.

[Schllc]

Repairing an old, unsupported unit for economic reasons is probably a valid option if you have no intention selling in the near future.
If you do plan to sell in the near future you may want to consider making the investment. It will undoubtedly be something like waas for people looking to buy. Knowing there is no support for a critical avionic component is going to affect the resale, and even if you don’t recoup the entire cost, it will likely sell quicker with upgrades which saves money as well…

[Pinecone]

On 1/4/2024 at 11:35 PM, OR75 said:

agreed they did a great job supporting the units so far and gave warning to the owners base.

However, the $500 to be told that the unit is toast does not feel right . I doubt it costs that much to make that assessment 

 

 

It seems to me to be a charge for those who are stupid enough to send one in with a bad screen when they told you that they had no replacement screens.

[OR75]

18 hours ago, Schllc said:

Repairing an old, unsupported unit for economic reasons is probably a valid option if you have no intention selling in the near future.
If you do plan to sell in the near future you may want to consider making the investment. It will undoubtedly be something like waas for people looking to buy. Knowing there is no support for a critical avionic component is going to affect the resale, and even if you don’t recoup the entire cost, it will likely sell quicker with upgrades which saves money as well…

I highly doubt you get anywhere near 100% of your investment back

the same applies to critical structural parts of the airframe that are difficult (long lead time or expensive to procure or repair)

 

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, OR75 said:

I highly doubt you get anywhere near 100% of your investment back

True.  But if you're going to keep the plane for even a few years, then when you deduct what you got out of it to the increased sales price, then it might be worth it.  Totally a personal choice.

 

[MikeOH]

9 hours ago, Pinecone said:

It seems to me to be a charge for those who are stupid enough to send one in with a bad screen when they told you that they had no replacement screens.

Depends on your definition of 'bad screen' I think.  Say, screen is black...how do you know, without sending it in, whether it's the screen or the electronics driving it?  That scenario hardly makes the person 'stupid' for sending it in, IMHO.

[LANCECASPER]

Ok here's the flip side, when they had screens in stock, when the same unit a few weeks ago was sent in they did the flat rate repair which included a screen plus the charge for their diagnostic time and paperwork. Since the only thing that's changed and they are making people aware of this, is that they don't have any screens. They are letting people know, before they send the unit in, that they still need to collect the diagnostic fee if it turns out to be the part which they no longer have access to. They aren't going to spend that time and end up with no fee. That's not what for-profit companies do.

If the screen looks good and the COM or VOR or GPS doesn't work and you want to take your chances, send it in. If it's bad and you don't want to spend the fee, they get to keep the unit. If you don't want to do that weigh your options and think about replacing it. I'm surprised they don't collect the $500 up front before looking at it, since the used parts of a 20 year old unit can't be worth much if screens are no longer available.

It seems a lot smarter if a 430W owner wants to kick the can down the road is to buy a working spare that you can slide in. Otherwise budget for a Avidyne 440 (slide-in, no labor)or a Garmin GTN650 or a Garmin 175, etc. Also has been mentioned some shops like Bevan will do bench repairs on these. Lots of options

[MikeOH]

3 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Ok here's the flip side, when they had screens in stock, when the same unit a few weeks ago was sent in they did the flat rate repair which included a screen plus the charge for their diagnostic time and paperwork. Since the only thing that's changed and they are making people aware of this, is that they don't have any screens. They are letting people know, before they send the unit in, that they still need to collect the diagnostic fee if it turns out to be the part which they no longer have access to. They aren't going to spend that time and end up with no fee. That's not what for-profit companies do.

If the screen looks good and the COM or VOR or GPS doesn't work and you want to take your chances, send it in. If it's bad and you don't want to spend the fee, they get to keep the unit. If you don't want to do that weigh your options and think about replacing it. I'm surprised they don't collect the $500 up front before looking at it, since the used parts of a 20 year old unit can't be worth much if screens are no longer available.

It seems a lot smarter if a 430W owner wants to kick the can down the road is to buy a working spare that you can slide in. Otherwise budget for a Avidyne 440 (slide-in, no labor)or a Garmin GTN650 or a Garmin 175, etc. Also has been mentioned some shops like Bevan will do bench repairs on these. Lots of options

The part that rubs me the wrong way is if I am happy with the condition of screen and send the unit in because the nav/com/gps is bad and then Garmin tells me the screen is bad (to their standard) so pay $500 for nothing or we get to keep it.  Sorry, that's pretty crappy customer service with merely the excuse "well we warned you we didn't have any more screens!" 

Sounds like a pretty good way to get plenty of free spare parts to put into other customers' units!  I don't buy the premise that "used parts of a 20 year old unit can't be worth much" when many of those components are going obsolete!  Sounds like a pretty profitable way to fix the next guy's unit with "a good screen" but has a comms problem: just swap the comm board from a confiscated 'bad screen' return and charge him the $2,000, or whatever, fixed rate repair!

[PT20J]

I think it's fair as long as they disclose the deal upfront, which Garmin has done. 

 

[MikeOH]

20 hours ago, PT20J said:

I think it's fair as long as they disclose the deal upfront, which Garmin has done. 

 

That depends upon if they have clearly defined, upfront, what a 'bad screen' is, don't you think?

Something other than the screen is wrong and YOU are happy with the screen (a few pixels missing, or a line through the screen you can live with, etc) but Garmin decides, AFTER receiving your unit that THEY think the screen is bad.

That does not seem right to me.

[OR75]

On 1/7/2024 at 3:12 PM, MikeOH said:

That depends upon if they have clearly defined, upfront, what a 'bad screen' is, don't you think?

Something other than the screen is wrong and YOU are happy with the screen (a few pixels missing, or a line through the screen you can live with, etc) but Garmin decides, AFTER receiving your unit that THEY think the screen is bad.

That does not seem right to me.

I am assuming that the unit is still yours (-$500 ! thank you). Garmin can return it red tagged it and if they do, have to write down why they believe it is red tagged.     

[MikeOH]

38 minutes ago, OR75 said:

I am assuming that the unit is still yours (-$500 ! thank you). Garmin can return it red tagged it and if they do, have to write down why they believe it is red tagged.     

Thankfully, my scenario is hypothetical.  Garmin does NOT presently have my 430W. I've sent it in for the last time; it's getting replaced with an Avidyne next time it fails.

But, I think you may miss my point: If I am happy with the DISPLAY, Garmin shouldn't be able to over rule me and confiscate the unit or make me pay $500 only to return it 'red tagged' such that I can no longer legally use it!  Frankly, why would I care what THEY think is wrong with the display if I have been happy with it?

[OR75]

3 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Thankfully, my scenario is hypothetical.  Garmin does NOT presently have my 430W. I've sent it in for the last time; it's getting replaced with an Avidyne next time it fails.

But, I think you may miss my point: If I am happy with the DISPLAY, Garmin shouldn't be able to over rule me and confiscate the unit or make me pay $500 only to return it 'red tagged' such that I can no longer legally use it!  Frankly, why would I care what THEY think is wrong with the display if I have been happy with it?

I don't think I missed your point.  I am saying that the unit is yours no matter what, with Garmin making it clear upfront that to get it back, you will be paying at least $500 (more if they can repair it).  Garmin has its own standards that I am not privy to (maybe a pixel missing disqualifies the unit?, I don't know) But the unit should go back to you (because it is your property) with either a green light or a red tag.  What you do with that tag is up to you.