Operating an F off a dirt strip is this a horrible idea?, just bought a home with a dirt strip.

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

I just bought a home to get out of the city.  It's on 150 acres and has two dirt strips one is 3000ft and the crosswind runway is 1800ft.  They are dirt runways, I will need a tractor as they have not been groomed in a few years.  This is a dream situation the house is rundown and it has a few rundown hangars that I will be spending my time fixing up.  This leads to the M20F: I just got her up and running with an overhauled engine about 5 months ago, I would love to keep her.  

I know about the Piper Painter videos and have watched them extensively, I'm wondering if it's feasible long term.  Dirt already erodes my prop using the paved runways in the southwest where the wife and I fly around.  My runways are pure dirt, sand, and small rocks.  

There is a paved section for runups.  Here are a few of my ideas:

1. Put 3M paint protection strip on leading edges of prop (just 1 inch stuff on outer 12 inches or so and replace often)

2. Accelerate slowly to suck less sand

3. Change air filter often 

What do you guys think?  Would it be worth it to sell her and kick in more money and grab a 180 or Maule or ?  

[ShuRugal]

Maybe sink a well to supply a drip-style irrigation system to keep the dust down?

Probably cheaper to just pave the runway. Save you from replacing blades.

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[Seanhoya]

You might consider a Brackett air filter. The only downside of a Mooney on unpaved strips is that the air filter is located perfectly to collect dirt! On a windy day, you might actually notice that your oil turns brown because of all of the dirt! So, anything you can do to make changing the filter easier is good. Also, if you can replace the original with a more efficient filter, all the better (thus, the Brackett air filter comment). If paving is out of the question, you might consider rolling the dirt occasionally - anything to keep the dirt down.

[kortopates]

I do a few dirt landings every year in Baja Mexico. Wouldn’t want to be based on one though, but with proper soft field technique and keeping the field in good shape you should be fine.
Mc Farlane sells a prop leading edge tape protector that does a good job of protecting it until something big enough cuts the tape. And of course it’s an approved STC.


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[Grandmas Flying Couch]

30 minutes ago, Seanhoya said:

You might consider a Brackett air filter. The only downside of a Mooney on unpaved strips is that the air filter is located perfectly to collect dirt! On a windy day, you might actually notice that your oil turns brown because of all of the dirt! So, anything you can do to make changing the filter easier is good. Also, if you can replace the original with a more efficient filter, all the better (thus, the Brackett air filter comment). If paving is out of the question, you might consider rolling the dirt occasionally - anything to keep the dirt down.

That's what it's got now, sticky sponge.  Paving would be around 1.5M for both runways so that's not in the foreseeable cards.  

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

18 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I do a few dirt landings every year in Baja Mexico. Wouldn’t want to be based on one though, but with proper soft field technique and keeping the field in good shape you should be fine.
Mc Farlane sells a prop leading edge tape protector that does a good job of protecting it until something big enough cuts the tape. And of course it’s an approved STC.


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Just looked it up, it's not horribly expensive hopefully it would withstand a little sand!  

[The Other Red Baron]

Hey, its me your long lost brother!  Where can I park my camper?

[A64Pilot]

The prop tape is going to be not worth it, trust me we tried it on helicopter blades, we ended up painting the blades daily.

Back in the day you could oil the runway, but I’m sure not anymore. Dirt tracks down South when I was a kid were oiled.

Nothing wrong with a Maule, 180’s worth having are kinda pricey. I think over time rocks picked up and thrown onto the bottom of the wings and into the horizontal will take their toll.

Most bush planes in AK etc have gravel flaps behind the mains. They are there for a reason, low winged airplanes are more susceptible, usually home made but apparently there are STC’d ones now.

http://www.aerotwin.com/products/main_gear_gravel_deflectors.html

There is even a special mod kit for a 737 that’s pretty extensive, bleed air tubes sticking out in front of the engine to break up vortices so they don’t Hoover rocks into the engine etc.

http://www.b737.org.uk/unpavedstripkit.htm

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

I just bought a home to get out of the city.  It's on 150 acres and has two dirt strips one is 3000ft and the crosswind runway is 1800ft.  They are dirt runways, I will need a tractor as they have not been groomed in a few years.  This is a dream situation the house is rundown and it has a few rundown hangars that I will be spending my time fixing up.  This leads to the M20F: I just got her up and running with an overhauled engine about 5 months ago, I would love to keep her.  

I know about the Piper Painter videos and have watched them extensively, I'm wondering if it's feasible long term.  Dirt already erodes my prop using the paved runways in the southwest where the wife and I fly around.  My runways are pure dirt, sand, and small rocks.  

There is a paved section for runups.  Here are a few of my ideas:

1. Put 3M paint protection strip on leading edges of prop (just 1 inch stuff on outer 12 inches or so and replace often)

2. Accelerate slowly to suck less sand

3. Change air filter often 

What do you guys think?  Would it be worth it to sell her and kick in more money and grab a 180 or Maule or ?  

Looks nice!   Holler if you need a hand with anything!

[A64Pilot]

Oh, and if you look at Maules you can tell the ones operated off of dirt with some rock, the flaps will have patches on the bottom in line with the tires.

‘It’s actually the back side of the prop that gets damaged on a tailwheel from tires throwing rocks forward into the prop. The wing I believe on a Mooney will take the hit instead of the prop from rocks coming off of the tires.

Oh and use the high buck tires, the ones with only two grooves. Air Trac’s pick up pea gravel in their grooves and throw it.

Pretty sure Desser has retreads with only two grooves like the high buck Goodyears.

I’d take a die grinder and open up the grooves so they couldn’t pick up rocks, shouldn’t take much 

Edited July 26, 2023 by A64Pilot

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

14 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

The prop tape is going to be not worth it, trust me we tried it on helicopter blades, we ended up painting the blades daily.

Back in the day you could oil the runway, but I’m sure not anymore. Dirt tracks down South when I was a kid were oiled.

Nothing wrong with a Maule, 180’s worth having are kinda pricey. I think over time rocks picked up and thrown onto the bottom of the wings and into the horizontal will take their toll.

Most bush planes in AK etc have gravel flaps behind the mains. They are there for a reason, low winged airplanes are more susceptible, usually home made but apparently there are STC’d ones now.

http://www.aerotwin.com/products/main_gear_gravel_deflectors.html

There is even a special mod kit for a 737 that’s pretty extensive, bleed air tubes sticking out in front of the engine to break up vortices so they don’t Hoover rocks into the engine etc.

http://www.b737.org.uk/unpavedstripkit.htm

I had high hopes, the leading edge of my prop gets the worst of it.  I wish I could oil it, doesn't asphalt contain tons of petroleum product?  I love the idea of those deflectors, if I buy a taildragger or fixed gear I will add those for sure.  Thanks A64!

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

16 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Looks nice!   Holler if you need a hand with anything!

Thanks man, I may need to host some fly-ins at some point, I gotta get the water, electricity and everything else up to snuff first.  Not to mention I gotta buy a tractor and learn how to use it! 

[Joshua Blackh4t]

Looks fine.

I operate out of gravel a lot in my E model.

Always taxi above 15kts, do runups over a rubber mat (or concrete), only needs to be a metre wide. Or on the run at 25kts. Common for me to start taxi very slowly, get to 15kts, enter runway at 15kts, do runups while moving, then full power and away.

Also, put in the leg work, if you park on dirt, pull it to somewhere that it can start rolling with minimal power, or scrape any big rocks away. Always plan your turns before  so its never in the rough.

Rocks/bumps are ok, but BEWARE HOLES.

I operated with neglegible damage when Cessnas were getting turned into serrated edge knives.

Also, beware fine sand, that will sandpaper your prop every time. 

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

10 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Oh, and if you look at Maules you can tell the ones operated off of dirt with some rock, the flaps will have patches on the bottom in line with the tires.

‘It’s actually the back side of the prop that gets damaged on a tailwheel from tires throwing rocks forward into the prop. The wing I believe on a Mooney will take the hit instead of the prop from rocks coming off of the tires.

I wonder if paint protection film under the wing in line with the tire would be in order?  The runway has very few rocks mostly silty soft dirt.  The previous owner who passed away flew a 1947 Bonanza and an Aercoup off the strip.  I will do "rock patrol" to thin the rocks on a regular basis.  If the mooney shows signs of getting beat up I'll save my money and swap her out.  It would be sad for sure.  I bought her because I wanted to actually go places and that she does well.  She also seems to be pretty good on cross winds, I fly on days my neighbors don't due to wind and it always feels pretty safe.  Perhaps the wing loading is higher.  

[Joshua Blackh4t]

3 minutes ago, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

Thanks man, I may need to host some fly-ins at some point, I gotta get the water, electricity and everything else up to snuff first.  Not to mention I gotta buy a tractor and learn how to use it! 

To dress a runway with a tractor, tow behind a kind of harrows made from 4 pieces of railway iron. Thats what I have seen used.

Very jealous of you, that looks sweet as.

 

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

3 minutes ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Looks fine.

I operate out of gravel a lot in my E model.

Always taxi above 15kts, do runups over a rubber mat (or concrete), only needs to be a metre wide. Or on the run at 25kts. Common for me to start taxi very slowly, get to 15kts, enter runway at 15kts, do runups while moving, then full power and away.

Also, put in the leg work, if you park on dirt, pull it to somewhere that it can start rolling with minimal power, or scrape any big rocks away. Always plan your turns before  so its never in the rough.

Rocks/bumps are ok, but BEWARE HOLES.

I operated with neglegible damage when Cessnas were getting turned into serrated edge knives.

Also, beware fine sand, that will sandpaper your prop every time. 

It's the finest of sand out there!  It's nothing but fin sand, smooth enough that you pick it up and rub it on your hands it acts almost like lube like graphite.  

[Joshua Blackh4t]

1 minute ago, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

It's the finest of sand out there!  It's nothing but fin sand, smooth enough that you pick it up and rub it on your hands it acts almost like lube like graphite.  

Damn, can you dress the first 50m with some heavier soil to stabilise it? Just for the initial take off run

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

Just now, Joshua Blackh4t said:

To dress a runway with a tractor, tow behind a kind of harrows made from 4 pieces of railway iron. Thats what I have seen used.

Very jealous of you, that looks sweet as.

 

Thanks man, I was very lucky to find it when I did!  I'm also lucky to have a wife that is on the same life path as me.  She didn't want to go but I dragged her out there and she walked around.  The next day she said "I want that house!"  

 

I don't yet have a tractor I do have a diesel 4x4 F350 wonder if that would be a good idea to drag chain and railroad iron with?  That way I could condition the runway sooner.  

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

Just now, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Damn, can you dress the first 50m with some heavier soil to stabilise it? Just for the initial take off run

I almost wonder if it would be worth paving the ends?  or is that silly to have hard transitions like that.  

[Joshua Blackh4t]

Just now, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

Thanks man, I was very lucky to find it when I did!  I'm also lucky to have a wife that is on the same life path as me.  She didn't want to go but I dragged her out there and she walked around.  The next day she said "I want that house!"  

 

I don't yet have a tractor I do have a diesel 4x4 F350 wonder if that would be a good idea to drag chain and railroad iron with?  That way I could condition the runway sooner.  

Definitely drag it, be very careful with earthmoving gear on a runway. Easy to ruin them.

As someone said earlier, can you water it and have a grass strip?

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

3 minutes ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Definitely drag it, be very careful with earthmoving gear on a runway. Easy to ruin them.

As someone said earlier, can you water it and have a grass strip?

definately not, on a well and wouldn't be able to produce nearly enough water.  

[Joshua Blackh4t]

I'd go find your friendly neighborhood earthmoving guy who will know the soil and weather and whats easy in the conditions. There may be some clay available locally, build it up with clay and have a nice hard surface with good drainage. 

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

2 minutes ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

I'd go find your friendly neighborhood earthmoving guy who will know the soil and weather and whats easy in the conditions. There may be some clay available locally, build it up with clay and have a nice hard surface with good drainage. 

I've never thought of this, I am a do it yourself kind of guy.  I may hire it out he first time or two and then learn to maintain it after he teaches me a thing or two.  I'm also looking forward to playing "She thinks my tractors' sexy" and tractoring by the wife until she goes bonkers.  

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

20 minutes ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Definitely drag it, be very careful with earthmoving gear on a runway. Easy to ruin them.

As someone said earlier, can you water it and have a grass strip?

This came with the property, satellite shows it moved around last in 2019 or 2020 it needs a ton of work and leaks so much hydraulic fluid it may oil the runway itself.  I plan to get it going eventually.   

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

The prop tape is going to be not worth it, trust me we tried it on helicopter blades, we ended up painting the blades daily.

I’ve been using the McFarlane PropGuard for over 25 years.  I’ve never had a problem with it if applied properly.

And with the nicks and cuts it accumulates over time, I’m incredibly happy I didn’t get that damage to my prop blades.

EDIT- a friend tried it on his Hartzell scimitar prop and it didn’t do as well.  The curvature on the leading edge was too great.  On my standard Hartzell it stays put nicely.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Andy95W