Sweet Spot for an Ovation

[GaryP1007]

Flying from Phoenix to Nashville in 2 weeks. Since owning the Ovation the highest I’ve flown is 14,000 feet. Flight planning for this trip I thought I’d ask other Ovation owners what altitude they would use. Thanks.

 

 

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[mike_elliott]

I have done the southern route a number of times, and find out west no lower than 12K. The plane is happier at 10K but routes suggest higher. Your well aware to avoid the NM West TX afternoon flights in the summer unless you like having your A$$ handed to you with turbolence. VFR gives you more leeway on alt and routing, IFR is safer if any issues develope. Just ask Mike Patey....(good job Mike)

[Danb]

Couldn’t agree more with Mike I flew southern route going to Vegas and flew across the sand at 12,000 so Fran didn’t have to wear oxygen, huge mistake worse turbulence ever. She’s now practicing wearing the mask because I’m fly back to west in September. Fly as high as you can, look up turbulence charts and most important fly early which your aware of being in Arizona 

[hypertech]

Once out of the mountains, 11k.  Its plenty happy and fast there and no O2 needed (unless you want to of course).

[kortopates]

43 minutes ago, hypertech said:

Once out of the mountains, 11k.  Its plenty happy and fast there and no O2 needed (unless you want to of course).

Just did the trip from SOCAL to east TX in an R and 14K was the sweet spot to get us into smooth air and cooler temps. Even out of the mtns, 11K is still in the zone of bumps from the summertime heating. Of course without O2 you can't. 

[GaryP1007]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Just did the trip from SOCAL to east TX in an R and 14K was the sweet spot to get us into smooth air and cooler temps. Even out of the mtns, 11K is still in the zone of bumps from the summertime heating. Of course without O2 you can't. 

Yeah I was thinking 13 or 15 depending on the day.

[ArtVandelay]

Winds at 14k are usually benign during summer months, but sure to check wind forecast, you might want to fly lower altitude to improve ground speed when returning westbound.

[Jeff Uphoff]

4 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

I have done the southern route a number of times, and find out west no lower than 12K. The plane is happier at 10K but routes suggest higher. Your well aware to avoid the NM West TX afternoon flights in the summer unless you like having your A$$ handed to you with turbolence. VFR gives you more leeway on alt and routing, IFR is safer if any issues develope. Just ask Mike Patey....(good job Mike)

OMG, Mike's not kidding here! I lived in central New Mexico for awhile about 20 years ago. Returning home from San Antonio one afternoon with my family (wife & 2 small kids) in the plane, we definitely had various body parts handed to us by the turbulence, eventually putting down in Roswell and waiting for dark before continuing home to Socorro (south of Albuquerque). A most unpleasant experience!

This time of year, I'd recommend flying the southwest as early in the day as you can and as high as you're comfortable being. I used to fly routine coast-to-coast flights, and westbound I typically stopped for the day around a line drawn through Cheyenne & Albuquerque. Late afternoons west of that tended to be very unpleasant.

--Up.

[Fly Boomer]

25 minutes ago, Jeff Uphoff said:

I used to fly routine coast-to-coast flights, and westbound I typically stopped for the day around a line drawn through Cheyenne & Albuquerque. Late afternoons west of that tended to be very unpleasant.

Just drew that line using ForeFlight to see what the weather looked like.  At 10,000 pretty bumpy.  At 20 it’s even bumpier (I expected smoother at 20).  Curiously, at 15 it looks pretty calm.

[FlyingScot]

Done KSAF <-> KAVL route many times in an O2. In the summer you probably won’t like <=12k unless you like turbulence - and  the desert and plains can cook up  _real_ turbulence. Fly in the AM or evening. 

I almost always was at 14/15, and sometimes higher. Yes,  the O likes 10-12 better, but it still has respectable performance up high. Plus eastbound in the mid-teens and above you can pick up some monumental tailwinds if you’re lucky (I have seen 70kts+). Wahoo - gotta love a 250 kt ground speed. 

 

[hypertech]

7 hours ago, kortopates said:

Just did the trip from SOCAL to east TX in an R and 14K was the sweet spot to get us into smooth air and cooler temps. Even out of the mtns, 11K is still in the zone of bumps from the summertime heating. Of course without O2 you can't. 

I have built in o2. I don’t like it and have hardly used it.  East of the Mississippi, 11k is usually enough to get out of the bumps and pick up the tailwind.

 

[A64Pilot]

You know night flying this time of year is great, late night smooth air and it’s not hot. I find if I’m on O2 at 8K I don’t feel nearly as fatigued at the end of the flight and you wouldn’t believe how much difference it makes in night vision.

O2 is your friend

Edited July 25, 2023 by A64Pilot

[GaryP1007]

You know night flying this time of year is great, late night smooth air and it’s not hot. I find if I’m on O2 at 8K I don’t feel nearly as fatigued at the end of the flight and you wouldn’t believe how much difference it makes in night vision.
O2 is your friend

I use 02 all the time for flights at 10k or higher. It just works for me.


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[Niko182]

I’d personally do 15 or above. The air will be cooler, it’ll be quieter, and you burn less. I’ve had my eagle/ovation up to 18k, and up there I was still able to hold above 175 knots true.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Niko182

[Jeff Uphoff]

On 7/24/2023 at 11:00 PM, GaryP1007 said:

I use 02 all the time for flights at 10k or higher. It just works for me.


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Same. I'll sometimes do an hour or two at 10k without O2, but if I plan to be that high for longer or know I'll be dealing with an approach or busy terminal area at flight's end, I'll use O2 just to stave off fatigue. Above 10k, I'm typically on O2 the entire time.

I'm in an Ovation now, but my last plane was a 231 that I usually flew at 16-17k for long legs, so I kinda made peace with being on O2 back then.

--Up.

[N201MKTurbo]

The summar bumps are very annoying. They usually start at 11:00 AM and start to dissipate at 4:00 and are usually gone by 7:00 PM. The top of the bumps is usually between 9K and 12K. Yesterday I flew back from NorCal and were doing 9500 because of the winds and it was smooth at 1:00 PM.

I was talking to a flight instructor yesterday morning at the KMCC self serve. He said they won't let their students fly if the OAT gets above 95F! That is from an airport with a 10000' runway at sea level. I had to chuckle, Our flight schools fly all day long when it is 118F.

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The summar bumps are very annoying. They usually start at 11:00 AM and start to dissipate at 4:00 and are usually gone by 7:00 PM. The top of the bumps is usually between 9K and 12K. Yesterday I flew back from NorCal and were doing 9500 because of the winds and it was smooth at 1:00 PM.

I was talking to a flight instructor yesterday morning at the KMCC self serve. He said they won't let their students fly if the OAT gets above 95F! That is from an airport with a 10000' runway at sea level. I had to chuckle, Our flight schools fly all day long when it is 118F.

Maybe it's just the flight instructors that don't like the heat.....

[Niko182]

I don’t mind taking off when it’s 115, but training in it is a different story. When it’s that hot I’ll happily climb to 12 or 13 thousand feet. I wouldn’t train at 3000 ft in a 172.

[rickseeman]

It's summer and you're crossing the desert in the day time. Be prepared to go high to get out of the bumps.

[William Munney]

Terrain will determine your altitude early.  After that, it’s all flight planning to get your sweet spot for winds, weather, 02 etc…..  Going to be different day to day.

[kortopates]

Maybe it's just the flight instructors that don't like the heat.....

No, but when the OAT exceeds the performance table climb/takeoff temp they want to set the right kind of example.


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[1980Mooney]

59 minutes ago, kortopates said:

No, but when the OAT exceeds the performance table climb/takeoff temp they want to set the right kind of example.


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That would be a good point except for the fact that the POH's for Cherokee 140's, Warriors, and 172's (at least the 4 I just thumbed through) all have take off and landing charts that go to 40 C (104 F).

And @N201MKTurbo said it was at a 10,000 ft long runway at S.L.  And he said that they would not fly if it were 95 F or above.

So it doesn't appear to exceed anything if the temps were over 95 F and below 104 F.

Now I agree that it may be uncomfortable for instructor and student, and the instructor might think this could interfere with concentration (student and/or instructor).

I will note that the Flight Schools in the Houston area were active during the prolonged record heat which was at or nearly at 100 F every summer day.   Below is a typical flight school Warrior at KDWH in north Houston:  If you expand the history you can see the ADSB tracks in July and August with many during the afternoon at peak heat.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N31634

I suspect it is a function of what people are used to.  I would be curious to hear from those in Phoenix - if they didn't fly above 95 F, I doubt that they would fly much at all.  I saw there were some days that it never got below 97 F. for the Low of the day.

Edited October 9, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[Danb]

On 7/24/2023 at 10:32 AM, Danb said:

Couldn’t agree more with Mike I flew southern route going to Vegas and flew across the sand at 12,000 so Fran didn’t have to wear oxygen, huge mistake worse turbulence ever. She’s now practicing wearing the mask because I’m fly back to west in September. Fly as high as you can, look up turbulence charts and most important fly early which your aware of being in Arizona 

Just went to and returned from Las Vegas to Amarillo and Albuquerque, morning out of double eagle was smooth at 12,000, on way home also morning about 10, little nasty at 11,000, went to 17,000 and smooth as glass. Altitude is your friend nice passing Amarillo going west. 

[N201MKTurbo]

5 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

That would be a good point except for the fact that the POH's for Cherokee 140's, Warriors, and 172's (at least the 4 I just thumbed through) all have take off and landing charts that go to 40 C (104 F).

And @N201MKTurbo said it was at a 10,000 ft long runway at S.L.  And he said that they would not fly if it were 95 F or above.

So it doesn't appear to exceed anything if the temps were over 95 F and below 104 F.

Now I agree that it may be uncomfortable for instructor and student, and the instructor might think this could interfere with concentration (student and/or instructor).

I will note that the Flight Schools in the Houston area were active during the prolonged record heat which was at or nearly at 100 F every summer day.   Below is a typical flight school Warrior at KDWH in north Houston:  If you expand the history you can see the ADSB tracks in July and August with many during the afternoon at peak heat.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N31634

I suspect it is a function of what people are used to.  I would be curious to hear from those in Phoenix - if they didn't fly above 95 F, I doubt that they would fly much at all.  I saw there were some days that it never got below 97 F. for the Low of the day.

When it was 115 + the flight schools were still flying as much as ever. When I took my ATP check ride, it was 112.

[donkaye]

I helped a new owner fly his newly purchased Ovation from Fort Lauderdale, Florida to Reid Hillview, California this weekend.  We did the trip in 1½ days over 15.4 hours.  Route of flight: KFXE-KMAI (stop), KMAI-KAEX (stop), KAEX-KMAF (Overnight), KMAF-KCHD (Stop), KCHD-KRHV.  Due  to winds we flew low (4,000 feet) the first day.  There was a strong crosswind of 40 knots the whole day, but very little headwind component.  Near the end of the 1st day I got a block altitude of 4,000-6,000 feet.  This provided a fairly smooth ride the whole day.  The 2nd day we left fairly early in the morning knowing we'd pick up 2 hours during the day.  We chose 10,000 feet for winds and power and flew all the way across New Mexico and Arizona at that altitude.  Because it was morning we had a mostly smooth ride all the way.  We were going to have an early lunch at Chandler, but the Hangar Cafe was packed and Convective activity was developing, so in the interest of safety we got fuel, had a difficult hot start, and were off on the final leg.  By now turbulence was developing, so we went up to 12,000 feet over the desert and stayed there until arriving over the Central Valley of California where we dropped down to 8,500 feet VFR, where we were able to get 75% power and a nice tailwind that gave us speeds of up to 202 knots, and this was going North.

Having flown Ovations across the Country too many time to count, the "sweet spot" is 9,000 feet.  While you can get up in the teens, the climb rate gets pretty poopy above about 11,000 feet.  I choose an altitude that provides the best speed while taking into account turbulence, giving preference to altitude to account for turbulence.  Time of day takes precedence over both, meaning fly early in the morning.  If that's not possible, I wait until it is.  That meant changing this week's flight start one day to let a cold front pass.

All in all we had a great trip across the Country, and one of the fastest trips West I ever made in an Ovation.

For awhile you can check out the trip and legs on FlightAware under N9171Z.