M20J Intercepted in San Francisco

[redbaron1982]

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/bay-area-plane-intercepted-biden-visit-18163625.php

[ilovecornfields]

I guess there will be an M20J on the market soon when that guy loses his license.

I got about a half dozen emails about those TFRs. I can’t imagine how someone wouldn’t know about them.

[ilovecornfields]

20 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

I wonder if busting a Presidential TFR and being “headbutted” by an F-35 raises your insurance premiums…..  

I’m sure it does. I added a named insured (retired airline pilot) to my policy that had accidentally clipped a presidential TFR a couple of years before (no intercept, no conflict) and he got a 30 day suspension. I can’t imagine the insurance companies would ignore the headbutt.

 

[patrickf]

As an Aussie I've always found it fascinating the level of disruption that US residents wear around the travel habits of their president.
Many years ago (1991) while backpacking in the US we got stuck in traffic heading out to JFK. Our taxi driver explained that the President was heading to the airport and all the roads and cross streets would be shut down for the cavalcade. We were staggered.
A few years later in Nov 1996 as a brand new sub 10 hr pilot I was practicing circuits in Canberra when the controller asked me to do a few orbits over parliament house to give him time to get a VIP away.  I had a birds eye view from 3 miles away. Later when back in the circuit I watched the big black cars loading into the heavy transport planes - C17s I think. Bill Clinton was visiting Australia.
Different world now.

[FlyingDude]

5 hours ago, patrickf said:

As an Aussie I've always found it fascinating the level of disruption that US residents wear around the travel habits of their president.

I guess you'd get similar disruption when the Queen visits you... 

[Hank]

33 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

I guess you'd get similar disruption when the Queen visits you... 

Nowadays that would be the King, unless Charles is going trans . . . .

[GeeBee]

6 hours ago, patrickf said:

As an Aussie I've always found it fascinating the level of disruption that US residents wear around the travel habits of their president.
Many years ago (1991) while backpacking in the US we got stuck in traffic heading out to JFK. Our taxi driver explained that the President was heading to the airport and all the roads and cross streets would be shut down for the cavalcade. We were staggered.
A few years later in Nov 1996 as a brand new sub 10 hr pilot I was practicing circuits in Canberra when the controller asked me to do a few orbits over parliament house to give him time to get a VIP away.  I had a birds eye view from 3 miles away. Later when back in the circuit I watched the big black cars loading into the heavy transport planes - C17s I think. Bill Clinton was visiting Australia.
Different world now.

Because we don't want to have to name another airport (that you were traveling to) after a murdered president. Lived through that time, not fun and it led to even worse times (Vice Presidents are rarely equipped or ready to lead). Bad actors in the world still abound who would love to kill a US President. Price of being the big dog on the porch.

[patrickf]

2 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

I guess you'd get similar disruption when the Queen visits you... 

Nah, I'm pretty sure even the Brits don't give him that treatment - they'd have to shut down Heathrow every time he ducked down the road from Windsor to drop in to the races.

[patrickf]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Nowadays that would be the King, unless Charles is going trans . . . .

I'm not touching that Hank - although he does enjoy dressing up!

[patrickf]

57 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Because we don't want to have to name another airport (that you were traveling to) after a murdered president. Lived through that time, not fun and it led to even worse times (Vice Presidents are rarely equipped or ready to lead). Bad actors in the world still abound who would love to kill a US President. Price of being the big dog on the porch.

Am aware of the history GeeBee. Was simply relating the difference in treatment, and one of my most memorable flights. Sadly the difference is not as pronounced now.

[N201MKTurbo]

I was IFR to Hayward a while back. There was a presidential TFR looming. Hayward was just outside it. When I was approaching the FAF it went into effect. There were a bunch of biz jets on approach to Oakland and San Fran. They were all requesting to divert to Hayward. Fun times on the radio.

[Schllc]

There were three violations for this visit?  Was it a popup tfr?

[wombat]

@patrickf In terms of the population under the leader, Australia's prime minister's protections should be similar to those of the governor of Florida, the third most populous state, rather than that of the leader of the United States.

 

I am making no statements regarding if either set of protection actions are appropriate.

[201Mooniac]

TFR was well publicized by aviation groups and was available on the FAA site and 1800wxbrief for a few days.  It is really unfortunate that GA continues to take these self inflicted hits.  Doubly bad that a Mooney was involved.

[FlyingDude]

6 hours ago, Hank said:

Nowadays that would be the King, unless Charles is going trans . . . .

Small details.

[DCarlton]

Headbutt?  Looks like the F35 went under the M20 and climbed up in front of him?  Perhaps thumping his with his wake?  Gotta wonder what the headbutt is per SOP.  

[FlyingDude]

Here is the headbutt with a video of the headbutt...  More like "cut him off" like you would on the highway.

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/jet-intercepts-plane-over-san-francisco

This is where gulped:

TFR violations can carry severe penalties, potentially including criminal charges with up to a year in federal prison and a $100,000 fine. In addition, offenders may face the suspension of their pilot’s license or other civil penalties. 

Of course I was expecting some sort of penalty.  But 100k$...  Geez.

[Wildhorsetrail]

As an Aussie I've always found it fascinating the level of disruption that US residents wear around the travel habits of their president.
Many years ago (1991) while backpacking in the US we got stuck in traffic heading out to JFK. Our taxi driver explained that the President was heading to the airport and all the roads and cross streets would be shut down for the cavalcade. We were staggered.
A few years later in Nov 1996 as a brand new sub 10 hr pilot I was practicing circuits in Canberra when the controller asked me to do a few orbits over parliament house to give him time to get a VIP away.  I had a birds eye view from 3 miles away. Later when back in the circuit I watched the big black cars loading into the heavy transport planes - C17s I think. Bill Clinton was visiting Australia.
Different world now.

I think it's excessive and doesn't seem to add much in the way of security anyway, but just my opinion.

Sent from my SM-A326U1 using Tapatalk

[1980Mooney]

Excellent summary of the FUBAR by N531DD, a 1980 Mooney M20J.  The owner, age 69, has owned it since 2001.  He doesn't seem to be on MS.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/watch-f-35-head-butt-private-plane-during-low-level-intercept-over-marin

N531DD Flight Tracking and History - FlightAware

Watch the F-35 maneuver in front of the Mooney (with ATC audio)

Edited June 23, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[ilovecornfields]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Excellent summary of the FUBAR by N531DD, a 1980 Mooney M20J.  The owner, age 69, has owned it since 2001.  He doesn't seem to be on MS.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/watch-f-35-head-butt-private-plane-during-low-level-intercept-over-marin

N531DD Flight Tracking and History - FlightAware

Watch the F-35 maneuver in front of the Mooney (with ATC audio)

Would be interesting to hear the tower tapes and what happened after the headbutt.

[1980Mooney]

1 minute ago, ilovecornfields said:

Would be interesting to hear the tower tapes and what happened after the headbutt.

I thought I attached them....let me try to fix it.

 

[FlyingDude]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

has owned it since 2001.  He doesn't seem to be on MS.

I thought MS attracted all Mooney flyers like a fly trap and never let us go....  He has dodged it for 22 years?  Kudos...

[Bolter]

3 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

Would be interesting to hear the tower tapes and what happened after the headbutt.

The pilot flies out of a little private strip, just south of KDVO, based on the flight track.  He would not need to talk to anyone on a typical flight, though he is just barely within mandatory MODe-C and ADS-B veil for SFO. 

[ilovecornfields]

I never go near the SF or LA Class B unless I’m IFR or on flight following. I think I’ll stick to this policy. 
 

It’s going to be hard to explain how he didn’t know about the TFRs. Hopefully he had a valid license and medical/basicmed since I’m sure multiple agencies will do a very thorough investigation. Seems something like this could end your flying career.

[aviatoreb]

14 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

I never go near the SF or LA Class B unless I’m IFR or on flight following. I think I’ll stick to this policy. 
 

It’s going to be hard to explain how he didn’t know about the TFRs. Hopefully he had a valid license and medical/basicmed since I’m sure multiple agencies will do a very thorough investigation. Seems something like this could end your flying career.

That's my standard operating procedure when near the most complicated air spaces - or any possibility of such - eg near Washington DC, and even this week in Toronto (since I am never 100% confident I might miss something distinctly Canadian!). When under positive control then in some ways its easier because you go where atc tells you where to go.