Break Problem

[Otto Klaas]

Dear fellows,

I am an M20D owner in Germany since June 2001. Most recently I overhauled the wheel parts of the breaks and installed new O-rings on both sides. After refilling break fluid from bottom side and removing residual air several times, the right break still does not work as expected. After a day's time it requires pushing the pedal down to the end position one or two times, then break action is perfekt and stays as it is for some time. By pressing the pedal there is no difference to the right side's behaviour, meaning the breaks are both in perfect shape up til 2500 rev/min. But the next day the same procedure is required on the right side again.

Is there anybody, who can give me some advice ?

Cheers Otto.

[M20F]

Do you have hydraulic flaps as well?

Break means to destroy something.  I want to break a glass.  Brakes are what you are talking about.  Offered in good nature, never know how to help non-native speakers :-)

[Otto Klaas]

Thanks, of course you are right, I stand a bit besides myself with the brakes, sorry !

Yes, my flaps are hydraulikly operated.

[Kelpro999]

6 hours ago, Otto Klaas said:

Dear fellows,

I am an M20D owner in Germany since June 2001. Most recently I overhauled the wheel parts of the breaks and installed new O-rings on both sides. After refilling break fluid from bottom side and removing residual air several times, the right break still does not work as expected. After a day's time it requires pushing the pedal down to the end position one or two times, then break action is perfekt and stays as it is for some time. By pressing the pedal there is no difference to the right side's behaviour, meaning the breaks are both in perfect shape up til 2500 rev/min. But the next day the same procedure is required on the right side again.

Is there anybody, who can give me some advice ?

Cheers Otto.

A little more info needed.

How was bottom up bleeding performed ? Pressure pot, pump or ?.

Fluid type & condition before and after ?

Access to reservoir - non 201 windscreen mod?

Area of concern seems to be the valve p/n A-47G-45 inside the master cylinder piston if still original cylinders. Not saying it’s defective, just    Saying it’s a component that can do what you describe if foreign matter or air is present.
 Also is there any leakage at the (right side) master cylinder shaft?

[Otto Klaas]

Thanks for your answers, I will start investigating according your proposals and come back. I appreciate your points very much.

[47U]

23 hours ago, Otto Klaas said:

I am an M20D owner in Germany since June 2001.

Being you have a D model, do you have co-pilot brakes?  Does the co-pilot right brake act the same as the pilot side?   

[Jim Peace]

23 hours ago, M20F said:

Do you have hydraulic flaps as well?

Break means to destroy something.  I want to break a glass.  Brakes are what you are talking about.  Offered in good nature, never know how to help non-native speakers :-)

come on give the guy a brake....

[cliffy]

On 5/2/2023 at 9:18 AM, Jim Peace said:

come on give the guy a brake....

BRAKE   or  BREAK   :-) :-)    Context matters  :-) :-)

I think its nice to have Otto coming to the forum from across the world

HELLO Otto and we are glad you came here for help !!!!!!   

Send us a picture of your airplane    

[carusoam]

M20Ds still standing on their fixed legs are super rare! 

We have three in the US… I have seen two of them… (one has nice pics around here somewhere)

 

There is  another MSer currently discussing his squishy pedal challenge at the same time…

Following Doc’s advice above is really helpful for finding the place where an air bubble is often trapped.

Getting the bubble out will get the pedal to firm up nicely…

Search for brake fluid 83232 to find that other conversation…

 

If you can use break vs. brake properly… you automatically get an English award for MSers that like their word of the day exercise! 

This one catches a lot of people… that only speak English… 

Best regards,

-a-

[Otto Klaas]

Dear Mooney Fellows,

thanks for your help with my "break" problem !!!! Since my last joining the things have been solved.

You were asking for pedals on the right side, I have none. And the fixed gear does not exist anymore. Unfortunately I have no proper history and so I don't know when the beast was modified to a lever operated retractable. You can imagine, I am very happy about the present status.

Anyhow I was recognizing with pleasure your interest into an old Mooney owner in the old world. This is why I attached two fotos of my bird, where you can identiy the retractable gear.

My wife and I were in holidays, this is the reason why I was not answering in time after your many advices.

Now I am facing another problem. Where can I order the fuel hose, item 30 in the parts catalog. It is the hose from the carburetor to the fuel gauge in the engine compartment. I have a couple of part numbers, however, the market is empty in our old world. The Nos. are MS28741-3-451/2, AN6270-2-35 and 359-2D0350. It looks like Cessna is using the same hose but there is no stock, wherever I was searching. In Germany I found a shop where they offered to copy the old hose assembly, using fuel resistant Teflon. The quoted price was: 660,- Euros !!!! Is there anybody amongst you guys, who can give me a link to a reasonable deal ?

Thanks for the time being, I hope my English has become more suitable in the meantime, so that I can expect some friendly answers,

Cheers, Otto

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Otto Klaas said:

Dear Mooney Fellows,

thanks for your help with my "break" problem !!!! Since my last joining the things have been solved.

You were asking for pedals on the right side, I have none. And the fixed gear does not exist anymore. Unfortunately I have no proper history and so I don't know when the beast was modified to a lever operated retractable. You can imagine, I am very happy about the present status.

Anyhow I was recognizing with pleasure your interest into an old Mooney owner in the old world. This is why I attached two fotos of my bird, where you can identiy the retractable gear.

My wife and I were in holidays, this is the reason why I was not answering in time after your many advices.

Now I am facing another problem. Where can I order the fuel hose, item 30 in the parts catalog. It is the hose from the carburetor to the fuel gauge in the engine compartment. I have a couple of part numbers, however, the market is empty in our old world. The Nos. are MS28741-3-451/2, AN6270-2-35 and 359-2D0350. It looks like Cessna is using the same hose but there is no stock, wherever I was searching. In Germany I found a shop where they offered to copy the old hose assembly, using fuel resistant Teflon. The quoted price was: 660,- Euros !!!! Is there anybody amongst you guys, who can give me a link to a reasonable deal ?

Thanks for the time being, I hope my English has become more suitable in the meantime, so that I can expect some friendly answers,

Cheers, Otto

Thats a really pretty paint job!

[cliffy]

In Germany are you required to purchase a factory new part or can your maintainer make up the hose using 

new hose and the old fittings?

New hose can be attached to the old fittings very easily I have done that on mine several years ago.

Finding MS28741 hose in your -3 size may be a problem

There is a substitute but I don't know what your country will allow.

This is in fact a hose that gets very neglected and never thought of for the life of the airplane

I have seen several that were original to the airplane  

Luckily with a carburetor it is low pressure line (up to 5 psi)