Attitude indicator Ping Pong

[McMooney]

Something weird today, during my flight from Dallas to Houston, my attitude indicator started careening all over the place, looked like a game of ping pong.

not sure what to think,  def not what i was expecting,  was really disconcerting; glad i wasn't in actual.

 

any clue ?

[carusoam]

Yes,

Lets start with what attitude indicator you have?

Then let’s discuss how old, and how many hours it has…

did you take a video of its antics?

Were you on an IR flight plan?

Is the device vacuum powered or electric?

What do you have for a back-up, TCs are no longer a good BU instrument…

This is intended to get you started…

So many new instruments to select from… or OH or swap out….

You didn’t mention the health of your vacuum pump…

Best regards,

-a-

[takair]

18 minutes ago, McMooney said:

Something weird today, during my flight from Dallas to Houston, my attitude indicator started careening all over the place, looked like a game of ping pong.

not sure what to think,  def not what i was expecting,  was really disconcerting; glad i wasn't in actual.

 

any clue ?

Assuming you didn’t lose the vacuum, it sounds like a tumbled gyro…often bearings.

[McMooney]

26 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Yes,

Lets start with what attitude indicator you have?

Then let’s discuss how old, and how many hours it has…

did you take a video of its antics?

Were you on an IR flight plan?

Is the device vacuum powered or electric?

What do you have for a back-up, TCs are no longer a good BU instrument…

This is intended to get you started…

So many new instruments to select from… or OH or swap out….

You didn’t mention the health of your vacuum pump…

Best regards,

-a-

Not sure on the make, it has absolutely no markings.

unfortunately no pics, totally slipped my mind.

Yes, was on IR but thankfully was cavu.

It's vacuum  powered, heck might be the original 1974 instrument.

The Vacuum powered autopilot( Brittain ) worked perfectly  which makes me think it isn't vacuum related.

I did tap the glass with my finger, which then caused the gyro to behave normally for the rest of the flight.

already reaching out to see what 2x gi275's cost hopes aren't really high, i hear there's something like a 6 to 9mos wait

 

 

 

[carusoam]

8 minutes ago, McMooney said:

Not sure on the make, it has absolutely no markings.

unfortunately no pics, totally slipped my mind.

Yes, was on IR but thankfully was cavu.

It's vacuum  powered, heck might be the original 1974 instrument.

The Vacuum powered autopilot( Brittain ) worked perfectly  which makes me think it isn't vacuum related.

I did tap the glass with my finger, which then caused the gyro to behave normally for the rest of the flight.

already reaching out to see what 2x gi275's cost hopes aren't really high, i hear there's something like a 6 to 9mos wait

 

 

 

Sounds more like what Rob mentioned above about bearings…

It might be OH or replace time…

Since you fly in IMC… now is a good time for a new Plan A and a good plan B.

+1 for the Brittain TC! 

Thanks for sharing the pirep…

Best regards,

-a-

[0TreeLemur]

1 hour ago, McMooney said:

already reaching out to see what 2x gi275's cost hopes aren't really high, i hear there's something like a 6 to 9mos wait

Note: with everyone+brother doing the glass thing, there are many serviceable gyro based instruments for sale for not a lot to keep you moving.

[carusoam]

For a plethora of pre-flown instruments…

Find @Alan Fox he probably has one just like yours, but in working condition…

Best regards,

-a-

[Alan Fox]

5000B-36   gorgeous , yellow tagged 2018 overhaul...425.00  

[Alan Fox]

5000B-36 really nice , almost perfect low time   375

[carusoam]

@McMooney… look what just showed up….   ^^^^

-a-

[McMooney]

On 2/5/2023 at 8:45 PM, McMooney said:

Something weird today, during my flight from Dallas to Houston, my attitude indicator started careening all over the place, looked like a game of ping pong.

not sure what to think,  def not what i was expecting,  was really disconcerting; glad i wasn't in actual.

 

any clue ?

Well Mooneyspace, don't say i've never contributed.  Here's some light plane porn for your enjoyment

[carusoam]

Wow McM!

No hesitation at all.

Undress a nice M20E and people come to see her!

next pic… instruments ON! 

Best regards,

-a-

[Pictreed]

I started replacing mine with a used one out of the same model E and talking with my IA I’m thinking about upgrading to digital.  What made you go with the G5 over the 275?

[PT20J]

If you are eliminating the vacuum system, the G5 runs longer than the GI 275 on backup battery.

[hubcap]

When my vacuum pump failed a few years ago, I replaced my AI with a G5 for around 4 AMU. No regrets.

[RobertGary1]

15 minutes ago, PT20J said:

If you are eliminating the vacuum system, the G5 runs longer than the GI 275 on backup battery.

Not in fact but in certification that is true. 

[McMooney]

1 hour ago, Pictreed said:

I started replacing mine with a used one out of the same model E and talking with my IA I’m thinking about upgrading to digital.  What made you go with the G5 over the 275?

so really 2 reasons,   first,  i could get g5's immediately, gi-275s was a months long wait.

Most important :  If 'm blessed,  i really want to go G3x which integrate better with the G5s.  To be clear it works with the gi-275 but works better with a g5

 

 

 

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

Not in fact but in certification that is true. 

Have you done a run-down test? I did it with my G5 and it lasted 3.5 hours. The Aspen used to be good for about 40 minutes. The AV-20-S dies after 30 minutes.

[Fly Boomer]

How, exactly, does the G5 work "better" with the G3X than the GI-275?

[PT20J]

8 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

How, exactly, does the G5 work "better" with the G3X than the GI-275?

The G5 is well integrated with the G3X. The G3X can use the G5 ADAHRS should its ADAHRS fail, and the two constantly cross check each other. Also, the G5 will drive the GFC 500 autopilot if the G3X fails.

While the G3X STC allows the GI 275 to be used as the required standby instrument, there are severe limitations relegating the GI 275 to just being an expensive attitude indicator. From the installation manual, Appendix F:

F.2 GI 275 Interfaces The GI 275 has no interface to the G3X system. The following paragraphs provide more detail about interface limitations and requirements for the GI 275 installed as a G3X standby instrument.

F.2.1 Magnetometer and OAT Probe The G3X system and GI 275 standby instrument cannot share the same GMU 11 magnetometer and GTP 59 OAT probe.  If magnetic heading, OAT, TAS, and standard rate turn bank angle pointers are desired to be displayed on the GI 275, an additional magnetometer and OAT probe must be installed for the GI 275.  Reference the GI 275 Part 23 AML STC Installation Manual for details.

F.2.2 External Navigators When used as a standby instrument for G3X, external navigators may not be interfaced to the GI 275. 

F.2.3 Autopilot The GI 275 STC supports a variety of interfaces to compatible autopilots for the GI 275 ADAHRS+AP model.  When used as a standby instrument for G3X, the approved autopilot interfaces for the GI 275 are limited to Gyro (attitude), Baro Correction, and Yaw Rate.  Interfaces for Flight Director, GPSS, and HSI (heading error and course error) may not be connected to the GI 275. 

[McMooney]

52 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

How, exactly, does the G5 work "better" with the G3X than the GI-275?

from my research the g5 and g3x were designed to work together.

now  i don't have a g3x so can't be 100% but from what I've learned, and this is the crudest example i can think of.

you can basically unplug one of the g5s, use the same connector to plug in the g3x add power, pitot/static and temp probe and you end up with a basic working g3x.

of course you need to cut panels, sell your old g5 and such but you get the drift.

the g3x works with the canbus, so the gad29b, gmu11 will just work. 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by McMooney

[carusoam]

G5 and G3X originated in the same business unit at Big G…

The 275 comes from the certified part of the business…

certified and experimental lines are a bit blurred here…

But the lines of business are clear within the big G groups…

kinda like two different companies that work together…

Go big G!

Best regards,

-a-

[McMooney]

On 2/5/2023 at 8:45 PM, McMooney said:

Something weird today, during my flight from Dallas to Houston, my attitude indicator started careening all over the place, looked like a game of ping pong.

not sure what to think,  def not what i was expecting,  was really disconcerting; glad i wasn't in actual.

 

any clue ?

Fellow Mooneyspacers, one last fix for your enjoyment.  

[hubcap]

22 hours ago, PT20J said:

The G5 is well integrated with the G3X. The G3X can use the G5 ADAHRS should its ADAHRS fail, and the two constantly cross check each other. Also, the G5 will drive the GFC 500 autopilot if the G3X fails.

While the G3X STC allows the GI 275 to be used as the required standby instrument, there are severe limitations relegating the GI 275 to just being an expensive attitude indicator. From the installation manual, Appendix F:

F.2 GI 275 Interfaces The GI 275 has no interface to the G3X system. The following paragraphs provide more detail about interface limitations and requirements for the GI 275 installed as a G3X standby instrument.

F.2.1 Magnetometer and OAT Probe The G3X system and GI 275 standby instrument cannot share the same GMU 11 magnetometer and GTP 59 OAT probe.  If magnetic heading, OAT, TAS, and standard rate turn bank angle pointers are desired to be displayed on the GI 275, an additional magnetometer and OAT probe must be installed for the GI 275.  Reference the GI 275 Part 23 AML STC Installation Manual for details.

F.2.2 External Navigators When used as a standby instrument for G3X, external navigators may not be interfaced to the GI 275. 

F.2.3 Autopilot The GI 275 STC supports a variety of interfaces to compatible autopilots for the GI 275 ADAHRS+AP model.  When used as a standby instrument for G3X, the approved autopilot interfaces for the GI 275 are limited to Gyro (attitude), Baro Correction, and Yaw Rate.  Interfaces for Flight Director, GPSS, and HSI (heading error and course error) may not be connected to the GI 275. 

This was the big sell for me…if the ADAHRS fails on my G3x the G5 sends the AHRS info directly to the G3x AUTOMATICALLY with no button pushing required. 
 

No partial panel.

[McMooney]

10 hours ago, McMooney said:

Fellow Mooneyspacers, one last fix for your enjoyment.  

and finally the outcast