CO2 detectors the "Good The Bad and The Ugly

[Bob E]

I posted this back in October.  I've used this excellent little CO detector for years.  Have tested it every few months by lighting a match a couple of feet away.

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/49675-cigarette-lighter-socket-as-usb-power-source/#comment-878225

 

[bryonycannon]

You're absolutely right about those scratch-and-sniff detectors being problematic! For carbon monoxide detection in aviation, the Forensics Detectors Car Aircraft Carbon Monoxide Detector works well for mobile applications and provides reliable CO protection. If you actually need carbon dioxide monitoring for cabin air quality, the Forensics Detectors CO2 Meter handles that effectively. Both units offer the portability and reliability that matter most in aviation use - quality handheld detectors provide excellent protection without installation complexity and can easily move between different aircraft as needed.

https://www.forensicsdetectors.com/blogs/articles/carbon-monoxide-leak-vehicle

[MBDiagMan]

Great thread!  Recently had someone fly with me that had a CO detector in their headset and it was set off indicating high levels.  I then bought a Sensorcon AV8 and am happy with it.

What no one spoke of in this thread was the levels that they have measured inside the cockpit of their Mooneys and experiences with high levels and how you corrected it would be greatly appreciated.

I was reading 440 ppm through a short flight and it was time for annual. They started trying to find the leak and gave the plane back to me and it’s now reading a little over 800.. They have blocked the heater and they have pressure tested the exhaust and heater system and are unable to explain the high-level.

any experiences that you’ve had with high levels I would love to hear about as we are trying to get to the bottom of this. Thanks for any help you can offer.

[MikeOH]

YIKES!!

I'm not trying to be a Karen, but OSHA sets a 100ppm limit for a work environment; MUST evacuate the area!

If the 800 ppm is real, I would NOT fly the plane.

The exhaust might be getting in from leaks in the rear fuselage but that’s just a guess as I have never, thankfully, had to deal with high CO levels.

[Echo]

19 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Great thread!  Recently had someone fly with me that had a CO detector in their headset and it was set off indicating high levels.  I then bought a Sensorcon AV8 and am happy with it.

What no one spoke of in this thread was the levels that they have measured inside the cockpit of their Mooneys and experiences with high levels and how you corrected it would be greatly appreciated.

I was reading 440 ppm through a short flight and it was time for annual. They started trying to find the leak and gave the plane back to me and it’s now reading a little over 800.. They have blocked the heater and they have pressure tested the exhaust and heater system and are unable to explain the high-level.

any experiences that you’ve had with high levels I would love to hear about as we are trying to get to the bottom of this. Thanks for any help you can offer.

DO NOT FLY PLANE until source identified and remidiated.  Those are DEADLY levels!

[M20F]

Guardian CO2 interfaced into my MVP-50.  Open the door on taxi with a tail wind and it works every time. 

[Hank]

All I've ever seen in my Mooney is 0; even my old Ford Ranger showed 0 running the heater in winter. I even checked my gas stove, oven and gas logs in the fireplace--all read 0 in steady use, with an occasional startup reading as high as 6.

Any reading of 440, much less 800, requires investigation. Check sealing around all hoses and wires through the firewall, sealing around where rudder pedals and aileron rods leave the cabin, along with the seam tape under the cabin.

[65MooneyPilot]

Check the panels under the back seat. They need to have tape around them to seal them up. 

[Ragsf15e]

I had an exhaust riser come completely off and it was leaking straight through holes in the firewall.  Still it was only ~80-100 on the ground.  400-800?!  Dont fly for sure.  Where’s the exhaust pointed?

You should see less than 20 on the ground unless you’ve got a rear quartering tailwind and zero in the air during cruise.  Maybe a little in climb.

[Jackk]

On 11/29/2022 at 11:01 AM, philiplane said:

buy the new Lightspeed Delta Zulu headset, it has a built in CO detector. Plus you protect your hearing with the latest and best ANR available.

I know the CSOB in all of us hates the price up front, but remind yourself that it's less than a quarter of the price of hearing aids...

 

https://www.sportys.com/lightspeed-delta-zulu-headset.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&creative={AdId}&device=c&matchtype=&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-JacBhC0ARIsAIxybyMt_EBbPx0W0nqzDDVy-hNzinjUOq0DvS97uoIb-tclXd5HK7IPBT4aAu4jEALw_wcB

  My significant other has a DZ and loves it, it also does a bunch of other stuff like record audio etc.

Lightspeed also makes a great headset and has good customer support, I’ve been using the Zulus (1-2-3) since they first came out 20ish yrs ago?

Her headset never gets above 25 in our planes, normally under 20 even with our 1940s vintage stuff.

 

 She did have it trigger a couple times in other folks planes that did have a CO issue.

 

Pretty cool tech  

Edited Tuesday at 02:39 PM by Jackk
Got the DZs CO readings wrong lol

[Jackk]

14 hours ago, Hank said:

All I've ever seen in my Mooney is 0; even my old Ford Ranger showed 0 running the heater in winter. I even checked my gas stove, oven and gas logs in the fireplace--all read 0 in steady use, with an occasional startup reading as high as 6.

Any reading of 440, much less 800, requires investigation. Check sealing around all hoses and wires through the firewall, sealing around where rudder pedals and aileron rods leave the cabin, along with the seam tape under the cabin.

 I would not trust it if it’s giving you a reading of 0 (zero) in any GA plane that takes its cabin heat from the exhaust shroud, that’s what some would call wishful thinking 

[TangoTango]

29 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 I would not trust it if it’s giving you a reading of 0 (zero) in any GA plane that takes its cabin heat from the exhaust shroud, that’s what some would call wishful thinking 

I don't think it's unusual to read 0 in cruise flight when there's plenty of airflow to dilute and carry away the exhaust. Mine is 0 in cruise flight, perhaps 1 or 2 in climb (I assume I could fix that with a door seal), and as high as 40 if I taxi with the door open (I have to mute the Sensorcon AV8 because it sets off the "low" alarm). If I taxi with the door closed, it's single digits. 

On another note, the card type "spot" detectors aren't great, but I still keep an up to date one stuck to the panel as a backup to confirm the Sensorcon is working.

[Bolter]

26 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 I would not trust it if it’s giving you a reading of 0 (zero) in any GA plane that takes its cabin heat from the exhaust shroud, that’s what some would call wishful thinking 

I have had only had zero leak heaters in my Mooney's when the system is maintained.  Running ROP and LOP.  I base this on the CO levels not changing with or without heater turned on.  I should note that when running LOP, I get 0 ppm CO in the cabin.  When running ROP, I get values that vary from 10 to 50 ppm CO, sensitive to climb angle and other variables. 

Being downstream of another plane on the ramp can give some of the higher readings as their exhaust drifts down the ramp and through my open doors.  I realized this when I was getting a high reading, and not yet running the engine, one day.

I recently found my door seal was leaking a little, as the cause of slighlty elevated cabin CO when on the ground. 

Sensorcon AV8 clipped to my kneeboard.

[Jackk]

0PPM is crazy low with a giant inefficient piston engine, non pressurized cabin, with a exhaust system that’s would be illegal on most cars off a race track

[Skates97]

37 minutes ago, TangoTango said:

I don't think it's unusual to read 0 in cruise flight when there's plenty of airflow to dilute and carry away the exhaust. Mine is 0 in cruise flight, perhaps 1 or 2 in climb (I assume I could fix that with a door seal), and as high as 40 if I taxi with the door open (I have to mute the Sensorcon AV8 because it sets off the "low" alarm). If I taxi with the door closed, it's single digits. 

On another note, the card type "spot" detectors aren't great, but I still keep an up to date one stuck to the panel as a backup to confirm the Sensorcon is working.

I see the same thing. Taxi/runup with the door open and depending on the direction of wind or other aircraft in the runup area it will get in the 30-50 range. Once the door is closed it drops down. I see single digits often in the climb but once in cruise it is 0.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

 I would not trust it if it’s giving you a reading of 0 (zero) in any GA plane that takes its cabin heat from the exhaust shroud, that’s what some would call wishful thinking 

The joys of a brand new muffler . . . .

Guess I should check it on the ground and in the climb. 

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, Jackk said:

 I would not trust it if it’s giving you a reading of 0 (zero) in any GA plane that takes its cabin heat from the exhaust shroud, that’s what some would call wishful thinking 

Hmm, I don't think it's 'wishful' thinking whatsoever.  Mine reads zero nearly all of the time. Exception is 10-15 during runup, sometimes.  Or, if I have the door open on hot days when taxiing.  As you can see from this thread I am NOT the only one.

Frankly, if YOU are seeing 20 ppm in your plane, you should investigate why.

[Paul Thomas]

My CFI has a fancy monitor and used it a couple times in my airplane. It's always read zero and being in FL, even with door open.

[Jackk]

7 hours ago, Hank said:

The joys of a brand new muffler . . . .

Guess I should check it on the ground and in the climb. 

Mine are all brand new too, 0 ain’t very real in GA

 

 even my friends 100ish TTSN SR22GTS was like 5-10

[TaildraggerPilot]

If you are in cruise and you are reading anything over zero, there’s something up with your exhaust. On the ground, with some tailwinds and a door open, you’ll usually read something. 

[MikeOH]

31 minutes ago, Jackk said:

0 ain’t very real in GA

Uh, YES IT IS!

Just because YOURS and your SR22 buddy's are not is hardly evidence of GA as a whole!

Look, I get it, YOU don't want to think there is anything wrong with YOUR plane, and you tell yourself that 10-20 ppm is not that dangerous (50 ppm is the OSHA 8 hour limit) but you are flying and at altitude the effects are likely more serious.

Mine is zero in cruise, and just go back through this thread and look at all the individuals also with zero in cruise.  It is NOT an anomaly to have zero.  It's got nothing to do with how ancient our engine designs are; it's all about properly sealed cabins and healthy exhaust systems.

[EricJ]

Mine reads 0 in cruise, and usually low single digits on the ground or in climb.    If the door is open and the breeze is right it can go way up, but rarely other than that.

[Jackk]

11 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Uh, YES IT IS!

Just because YOURS and your SR22 buddy's are not is hardly evidence of GA as a whole!

Look, I get it, YOU don't want to think there is anything wrong with YOUR plane, and you tell yourself that 10-20 ppm is not that dangerous (50 ppm is the OSHA 8 hour limit) but you are flying and at altitude the effects are likely more serious.

Mine is zero in cruise, and just go back through this thread and look at all the individuals also with zero in cruise.  It is NOT an anomaly to have zero.  It's got nothing to do with how ancient our engine designs are; it's all about properly sealed cabins and healthy exhaust systems.

 I’m not worried about it remotely 

 

 just saying if you’re constantly getting 0 I’d at least hold it by the exhaust of your car to check it

[midlifeflyer]

11 hours ago, TaildraggerPilot said:

If you are in cruise and you are reading anything over zero, there’s something up with your exhaust. On the ground, with some tailwinds and a door open, you’ll usually read something. 

That’s pretty much what I see. Maybe a small rise on the ground, gone in the air. Not just one aircraft. Not just one type. Pretty much across the board.

[Jim Peace]

I fly with two. One to check the checker. On the ground they are reading sometimes double digits. I taxi with the door open almost 100% of the time. In the air they read 0. Maybe low single digits with the heat on or if the cowl flaps are open it may read between 1-3ppm. Every plane should have these. They are cheap and do save lives. I read nearly 200ppm one day and found some scat tubing off in the cowling. Unfortunately we will need legislation to mandate expensive panel mounts due to cheap ass pilots who refuse to smarten up.