M20F Mooney – 201 CLONE but even Better with all the Upgrades

[N811SS]

1967 M20F serial number 670064 with TTAF=  6,620 with last annual complete in Nov. 2021, all AD’s complied with.   Engine Lycoming IO360-A1A, TSMOH = 780 hours done by Ameritech in 2014.  Last prop OH was 300 hours ago.  Aircraft painted in 2009 with interior redone in 2003.  Right tank strip-n-reseal in 2021. 

Avionics:

·         Audio selector – PS Engineering PMA6000

·         Garmin GNS430W (WAAS enabled, factory upgraded in 2017)

·         Second Comm TKM MX-11 (installed 2017)

·         Second Nav Narco Nav122 centerline VOR localizer & glideslope

·         Garmin 496 with panel dock

·         Appareo Stratus II, perfect for using Foreflight on your iPhone and iPad.

·         Garmin GTX330ES - ADS-B out (Installed 2019)

Airplane Equipment & Instrumentation:

·         Complete 201 M20J factory STC’d retro fit in 1986 (one piece slopped windshield, gear retraction, panel, cowling, oil cooler relo, air filter box, horizontal fairing, flap gap seals, elevator hinge covers, RAM air induction,  tanks 64 gallons total)

·         McCauley 3 bladed Prop with polished Aluminum spinner

·         Power flow exhaust – tuned exhaust (installed 2020)

·         Electronic Ignition Electro Aire 41000 (installed 2014)

·         Insight GEM graphic engine monitor G2 (installed 2021).  Perfect for LOP operations.

·         Brittain Autopilot (Accu-trak B-11 and Accu-flite B12)  Heading bug and Nav tracking coupled to Nav 1 or Nav2.  No Altitude hold. 

·         Electric gear

·         Electric elevator trim

·         Electric aileron trim

·         Hydraulic flaps

·         Pneumatic retract step

·         Precise Flight Speed brakes

·         Precise Flight Stand-by vacuum system

·         ACK E-04 ELT (installed 2017)

·         Davtron 5 function display (Volts, Density Alt, Pressure Alt, Temp F, Temp C)

·         Airspeed gauge with Ture airspeed indicator

·         EMCO cabin cooler STC’d – blower motor ventilation located behind hat rack

·         Enhanced aircraft lighting:

o   Whelen Aviation 3 position strobe lights

o   High intensity LED landing light in nose

o   Wing mounted LED Taxi way lights

o   Wing mounted collision avoidance Pulse light

o   Tail illumination lights

·         Rosen Sun Visors

·         Bruce’s custom canopy cover (installed 2021)

·         Fuel tank sight gauges

·         Quick drain oil coupling

·         Auxiliary power connection

·         4 place intercom

Contact  --->  Mark Farabaugh at 760-445-8983 (mafarabaugh@sbcglobal.net)

M20F Mooney for sale.pdf

[N811SS]

Asking Price = $121,300

aircraft located at KSEE (El Cajon near San Diego, CA.

might consider partnership arrangement if aircraft can stay in KSEE

[ZuluZulu]

I haven't seen it up close in a while, but the paint sure looks sharp across the ramp!  And some truly cool upgrades -- who has tail illumination lights on a GA piston single?!  GLWS!

[ArtVandelay]

What is the white box mounted in left rear window?

[Shadrach]

4 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

What is the white box mounted in left rear window?

Looks like a Stratus receiver to me.

[TNIndy]

I saw on Hanger 67 you had the Light Speed head sets priced separately. Are they still available?

[N811SS]

Correct, the bracket left passenger window is for the stratus II.  It is connect to airplane power via 12v adapter (cigarette lighter).  I have tried every possible location and this is best I think.  Stays cool, has good reception, is completely out of the way and can be visual checked for lights and rebooted by pilot if necessary.   Set it and forget it. 

[N811SS]

Selling equipment below separately but will need to hold on to gear until airplane sells.

[N811SS]

On 8/19/2022 at 5:28 PM, ZuluZulu said:

I haven't seen it up close in a while, but the paint sure looks sharp across the ramp!  And some truly cool upgrades -- who has tail illumination lights on a GA piston single?!  GLWS!

Some unique upgrades for sure.  The ENCO cabin cooler fans and Aileron trim are actually very useful.

[TNIndy]

Sent a PM regarding headsets

[kortopates]

Nice clean F’n J.
Curious about your mention of a STC for the J mods. there’s really no STC for that right, not unless it’s was by someone other than the factory, such as LASAR for things like cowling and windshield?

Did it get any changes in V speeds such as gear?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[N811SS]

On 8/21/2022 at 11:30 AM, kortopates said:

Nice clean F’n J.
Curious about your mention of a STC for the J mods. there’s really no STC for that right, not unless it’s was by someone other than the factory, such as LASAR for things like cowling and windshield?

Did it get any changes in V speeds such as gear?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I may have my terminology wrong (STC's vs. 337's).  I can tell you that when they turned this M20F into a 201-clone it involved pages-n-pages-pages of Mooney factory parts diagrams and installation instructions involving (but not limited to); cowling, engine compartment, panel, gear, windshield, etc.   I think most mechanics view this bird as a 1982 J model instead of  67 F model.

For gear and flap extension speeds I just go by the M20F PoH.  Stall speed (clean and dirty) is pretty much spot on.  

[ArtVandelay]

It’s nice that owners want to their planes to be like a J, probably should have just bought a J in the first place.
You still have the A1A engine and the ram air….the Js have A3B6 and dropped the ram air and as well as mentioned higher speeds.
I take issue with the “even better” part and it’s that’s considered 82J…good marketing.

[carusoam]

13 hours ago, N811SS said:

I may have my terminology wrong (STC's vs. 337's).  I can tell you that when they turned this M20F into an M20J it involved pages-n-pages-pages of Mooney factory parts diagrams and installation instructions involving (but not limited to); cowling, engine compartment, panel, gear, windshield, etc.   I think most mechanics view this bird as a 1982 J model instead of  67 F model.

For gear and flap extension speeds I just go by the M20F PoH.  Stall speed (clean and dirty) is pretty much spot on.  

Add to your list of terms…

STCs, 337s, and factory parts and drawings….

In this case…

An M20F was eligible to be updated to a newer version by taking factory parts and drawings to do the work…

 

It helps to be a mechanic and a lawyer to be able to remember when to use which rule…

 

All I want for Christmas… is to put the front end of an Acclaim on my Ovation….  Factory parts and drawings should work…. 

PP thoughts only…

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

All I want for Christmas… is to put the front end of an Acclaim on my Ovation….  Factory parts and drawings should work…. 

Why? The Acclaim with bigger round inlets compared to sleeker Ovations…I’d like the Os.

[N811SS]

On 8/22/2022 at 11:02 AM, ArtVandelay said:

It’s nice that owners want to their planes to be like a J, probably should have just bought a J in the first place.
You still have the A1A engine and the ram air….the Js have A3B6 and dropped the ram air and as well as mentioned higher speeds.
I take issue with the “even better” part and it’s that’s considered 82J…good marketing.

Ouch!  Not sure where the hostility is coming from but sorry you don’t like my airplane.   I think Most owners would consider i) three blade prop, ii) power flow exhaust, iii) electronic ignition, iv) speed brakes, etc, etc….Upgrades to a “J” model.   She has been a pretty good machine for me.

[carusoam]

1 hour ago, N811SS said:

Ouch!  Not sure where the hostility is coming from….

This typically occurs when writing and making comparisons…

You may have somehow insulted AV’s first born….  

There is a lot of ‘my plane is faster than your plane…’ happening around here 24/7…

Most often executed in a playful manner…

Some times accidental…

And a few times on purpose… when somebody discusses their favorite Brand B or C plane…

 

It takes a few days… and a few posts… and you get to know a lot of Mooniacs…. And how they write…

And things they avoid writing out loud….  
 

PP thoughts only… not a pro writer…

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

Ouch!  Not sure where the hostility is coming from but sorry you don’t like my airplane.   I think Most owners would consider i) three blade prop, ii) power flow exhaust, iii) electronic ignition, iv) speed brakes, etc, etc….Upgrades to a “J” model.   She has been a pretty good machine for me.

No hostility, just truth in advertising. It’s a fine example of the F model…but it’s not a J (201 clone).

[ZuluZulu]

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

No hostility, just truth in advertising. It’s a fine example of the F model…but it’s not a J (201 clone).

I must stand up for my fellow San Diego Mooney owner here.  You might have had a point if the seller had claimed it was a J, but he's made no such claim.  He calls it a 201 clone, as you acknowledge.  Clone means copy or replica, it doesn't mean he's claiming it's literally a J.*  If the seller's intended buyer was somebody who wants a J but isn't prepared to pay full J price, he's pretty much nailed that pitch.

The seller clearly discloses the plane is an M20F all the way down to the engine variant and then lists all of the 201 mods it's received.  If that wasn't enough, he also provides photos comprising multiple angles that show exactly what the plane looks like with all those mods installed.  An interested buyer has what he needs to make up his own mind and evaluate the "201 clone" claim.  Reasonable minds may differ, but just because you personally disagree doesn't implicate a lack of "truth in advertising," and to accuse a good-faith seller otherwise will have a chilling effect on those who would otherwise choose to list their planes for sale here.

This particular seller even discloses to buyers his actual costs of ownership -- unheard of in most ads!  In fact, I would go further and argue that the seller should be commended for making a bold claim and backing it up with the evidence he relies on, and letting buyers make up their own minds as to whether they share his confidence.  It doesn't get much more "truth in advertising" than that!  Some would even call that a foundation of American capitalism.  

Let's hope whenever you decide to sell your bird, someone doesn't anoint themselves the ad copy police and stomp all over your ad.  On BeechTalk it's considered poor form to do so, and IMHO we would do well to adopt a similar policy.

-----

* To use an automobile example, a Pontiac Fiero with a Lamborghini body might get advertised as a "Lamborghini clone," but no one in his right mind thinks he's buying an actual Lamborghini if he's been told there's a Fiero underneath.  Same thing here.

[pirate]

 

Another example listing a plane or product on MS and immediately getting beat up, if someone doesn’t like what they read just move on………

[N811SS]

On 8/25/2022 at 12:08 AM, ZuluZulu said:

I must stand up for my fellow San Diego Mooney owner here.  You might have had a point if the seller had claimed it was a J, but he's made no such claim.  He calls it a 201 clone, as you acknowledge.  Clone means copy or replica, it doesn't mean he's claiming it's literally a J.*  If the seller's intended buyer was somebody who wants a J but isn't prepared to pay full J price, he's pretty much nailed that pitch.

The seller clearly discloses the plane is an M20F all the way down to the engine variant and then lists all of the 201 mods it's received.  If that wasn't enough, he also provides photos comprising multiple angles that show exactly what the plane looks like with all those mods installed.  An interested buyer has what he needs to make up his own mind and evaluate the "201 clone" claim.  Reasonable minds may differ, but just because you personally disagree doesn't implicate a lack of "truth in advertising," and to accuse a good-faith seller otherwise will have a chilling effect on those who would otherwise choose to list their planes for sale here.

This particular seller even discloses to buyers his actual costs of ownership -- unheard of in most ads!  In fact, I would go further and argue that the seller should be commended for making a bold claim and backing it up with the evidence he relies on, and letting buyers make up their own minds as to whether they share his confidence.  It doesn't get much more "truth in advertising" than that!  Some would even call that a foundation of American capitalism.  

Let's hope whenever you decide to sell your bird, someone doesn't anoint themselves the ad copy police and stomp all over your ad.  On BeechTalk it's considered poor form to do so, and IMHO we would do well to adopt a similar policy.

-----

* To use an automobile example, a Pontiac Fiero with a Lamborghini body might get advertised as a "Lamborghini clone," but no one in his right mind thinks he's buying an actual Lamborghini if he's been told there's a Fiero underneath.  Same thing here.

ZuluZulu -->  Thanks for the well written/reasoned response above.  I am still at a bit of a loss understanding where ArtVandelay is coming from and why he thinks he needs to come to the rescue of any potentially interested buyers that he implies I am attempting to bamboozle.   I feel my classified ad for N811SS is not False Advertising nor Deceptive Marketing and is an Honest Representation of a very good machine.   I have been flying Mooney's for 40+ years (i got my PPL at age 17) and have owned several over the years...the term "201 Clone" is not something I invented but rather a commonly used term to describe extensive 201"J" alterations to a longbody F model or short body "C/E" model (including electric gear which was a big deal back in the 1980's).   A quick search of the internet shows the verbiage "201 clone" being used in the exact same way for several other Mooneys (see attachments below) and has been so for many decades now.  If an expert (i.e. the folks at MooneyFlyer.com) tell me the term has fallen out of favor for a valid reason then I will change the language of my classified ad accordingly.

I suppose saying the N811SS is '..even better because of all the upgrades..." could be viewed as more SUBJECTIVE rather than OBJECTIVE (i.e. is a 3-blade prop better than 2-blade? is a tuned exhaust better? is Electronic Ignition better? is having a GEM better than not having one?).  For me I feel these are important enhancements and increase the airplanes value/resell.  However, by way of total transparency to any interested buyer, I provided a list below of my cost ($-parts + $-labor) for some of the upgrades I have applied since acquiring N811SS in 2009 and a link to the mfg describing the features/advantages of these upgrades (fyi - these are the mfg'rs words NOT mine ArtVandelay):

* PowerFlow Systems (Tuned exhaust) - part $4,700 + $520 install labor  = $5,220  https://www.powerflowsystems.com/products/mooney/mooney-200210hp-io360

* ElectroAire EIS-41000 (Electronic ignition) - part $1,950 + $570 install labor = $2,520 http://www.electroair.net/ourHistory.html

* Insight G2 GEM (graphic Engine Monitor) - part $1,600 + $1,000 install labor = $2,600     http://www.insightavionics.com/bestg2.htm

* N811SS came with a three blade prop when I purchased it but normally it would be about a $3k upgrade.  Here is a link to a robust discussion on MooneySpace between 3 vs 2 blade props:

 

 

 

 

[carusoam]

Stay focussed N811S!

There are always going to be goofy questions tossed onto a perfectly good sales ad thread…

Do your best to answer the questions….

It won’t help to get bogged down in things that aren’t focussed on this plane, for sale, today…

 

Keep in mind the crowd around here… knows the continuum of NA, mid body, Mooneys, from the first M20F, to the last M20J….

The first M20J came out in the mid 70s… the last was mid 90s…

One of the nicest M20Fs around here has an Ovation’s interior…. And a Lopresti cowl… some things the M20J never got… 

 

Sooo…. Calling it a clone of an M20J probably doesn’t tell enough detail of how nice it really is… it gives a strong hint… makes me want to read more about it…

Things are selling well around here still….

Stay positive!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[N811SS]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

Stay focussed N811S!

There are always going to be goofy questions tossed onto a perfectly good sales ad thread…

Do your best to answer the questions….

It won’t help to get bogged down in things that aren’t focussed on this plane, for sale, today…

 

Keep in mind the crowd around here… knows the continuum of NA, mid body, Mooneys, from the first M20F, to the last M20J….

The first M20J came out in the mid 70s… the last was mid 90s…

One of the nicest M20Fs around here has an Ovation’s interior…. And a Lopresti cowl… some things the M20J never got… 

 

Sooo…. Calling it a clone of an M20J probably doesn’t tell enough detail of how nice it really is… it gives a strong hint… makes me want to read more about it…

Things are selling well around here still….

Stay positive!

Best regards,

-a-

 

Roger that.

[Marauder]

No hostility, just truth in advertising. It’s a fine example of the F model…but it’s not a J (201 clone).

Technically a J is an F clone. The starting airframe that was used to make the first J models were in fact Fs that were heavily modified and introduced as the J model. If you sat in a late model F or an early J, you’d be hard pressed looking at the interior to tell the difference.

Now if the owner here claimed it was an Ovation clone, well then, I’d be on the bandwagon to say that would be stretching it. Pun intended.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ZuluZulu]

On 8/25/2022 at 11:52 AM, N811SS said:

One final comment, as I think we've said all there is to say on the advertising topic.  The dean of Mooney brokerage himself, Jimmy Garrison, has used the term "201 clone" to describe non-M20Js with a significant number of M20J mods.  That should be the final word on whether it's an appropriate term to use, IMHO.