Guide for all the available models

[jack_carls0n]

Hello fellow MooneySpacers,

We are setting up a group in Tampa Bay and looking at Mooney for a partnership airplane. Our requirements are as follows:

Useful load: 1000lbs +

Seats: Preferably the one with 5th seatbelt otherwise 4 seats

Range: Able to fly 700 nm 

Mooney's are known to be fast airplane and while going fast it is also economical (which depends on the style of flying).

Now the complicated part is that we are not sure about all the different models for different years. Upon searching, we see multiple aircraft listed. Is there a guide off some kind to learn about the different variations. We see M20M Bravo (91, with TIO-540); M20J (92, with IO-360), M20S Eagle (99, IO550G), M20R Ovation (99, not sure the engine), M20J 201 Missile.

Now to add to the list, some are 2 bladed prop and some are 3 bladed prop!! How do you choose which one is best for us?

I understand that there are some with Lycoming and some with Continental Engine. Some are turbo charged and some are not. Some are 200 hp, some are 310 and others are 270.  Not too picky on avionics, but G430W and above would work.

 

What would you all recommend and where to start at? Any Mooney owners in TPA area would like to share/show their Mooney's in person. Wouldn't mind a flight if that works out? Can pay for fuel and other costs. Thanks

[Hank]

@jack_carls0n, your timing and location are pretty good! In just 4 weeks, many Mooneys of many models will be at the Tampa airport fir the Mooney Summit VIII / IX? I forget, we missed a few due to Covid. It's 18-19 September. 

My C will arrive on Saturday,  180 hp, carbureted, the "short body" or smallest Mooney. A-E models.

Mid-bodies got extra backseat legroom and baggage space, F-K models.

Long bodies started with L and have 6-cylinder Continental engines, are visibly lo get and sit much more nose up on the ground.

Hope to see you there!

[hubcap]

@Hank is correct. Pretty much any question you have about Mooney's can be asked of the experts during the Mooney Summit. We plan on being there in our M20K.

[Niko182]

If you need 5 seats, dont waste your time with a mooney and get a saratoga, cherokee six, 210, a36, or other 6 seat variant.

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, Niko182 said:

If you need 5 seats, dont waste your time with a mooney and get a saratoga, cherokee six, 210, a36, or other 6 seat variant.

No doubt.  Is there even a model that offered that as an option?

[Niko182]

4 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

No doubt.  Is there even a model that offered that as an option?

On the K and later models they offered a 3 place bench seat in the back. For kids you can make it work ish. Still not worth it imo. My parents K model had it and it was alright when i was 5 or 6. Looking at it now, a 36 would be the way to go.

[Pinecone]

Also a 1000+ useful load is difficult on at least some of the larger engine planes.  I was looking at a Bravo, and they do not have that useful load.

And 4 people and 700+ nm range, on the same flight, is going to be hard to do.

[jack_carls0n]

18 hours ago, Hank said:

@HankThanks for the info. It would be wonderful to come meet Mooney Owners and learn from them. Will try to attend it and share it with the group too. If I am not able to attend it, other pilots from the group can. Thanks @hubcap

@Niko182 and @Ragsf15e We wanted to get 5 seat (the one where a 5th seat belt in included) for the kid. A true 4 adult airplane would be one that has six seats.
What would be the ideal range with 4 adults (700 lbs with bags)? Would CG be an issue? Saratoga and A36 would be ideal. An A36 is expensive though. 

@PineconeTrue, not many Mooney's with 1000+lbs useful load. Are there any Mods to increase Useful load? I am guessing with 4 adults and bags, you can put about 40 gallons of fuel and fly a max of 2 hrs on a perfect day. But this is for one of those rare occasion. Most likely 2 of us on 90% of the trips. 

 

Thank you everyone. Hope to see you at the summit. I checked the website. Is there a particular time the event starts/ends!?

[carusoam]

15 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

No doubt.  Is there even a model that offered that as an option?

Long Bodies have a bench seat option for the fifth passenger….

The three backseaters have to be standard FAA bodies or smaller…

it’s a tight fit and life planning becomes more important… 

 

The M22 Mustang had a small seat for #5… there are still a few Mustangs around.

 

Then there was that errant M20C that thought the baggage area was a good spot for the #5 passenger… that was the shortest recorded flight of any five passengers in a Mooney….

Best regards,

-a-

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, jack_carls0n said:

@HankThanks for the info. It would be wonderful to come meet Mooney Owners and learn from them. Will try to attend it and share it with the group too. If I am not able to attend it, other pilots from the group can. Thanks @hubcap

@Niko182 and @Ragsf15e We wanted to get 5 seat (the one where a 5th seat belt in included) for the kid. A true 4 adult airplane would be one that has six seats.
What would be the ideal range with 4 adults (700 lbs with bags)? Would CG be an issue? Saratoga and A36 would be ideal. An A36 is expensive though. 

@PineconeTrue, not many Mooney's with 1000+lbs useful load. Are there any Mods to increase Useful load? I am guessing with 4 adults and bags, you can put about 40 gallons of fuel and fly a max of 2 hrs on a perfect day. But this is for one of those rare occasion. Most likely 2 of us on 90% of the trips. 

700 lbs for 4 typical American adults (real ones - not the FAA fantasy "standard adult" definition), luggage, crap on the hat rack, tow bar, extra quarts of oil, flight bag, water/drinks, etc?  Is that realistic?  And you mention a kid as a possible (occasional?) 5th.  We tend to remember what our weight used to be....not what it is.  Planes aren't much different.

I tend to think of a Mooney as more of a 3 adult plane for trips.  For day flights it can be 4. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by 1980Mooney

[carusoam]

I recently wrote a list… M20A through M20V including the extra special models…

With a sentence about each one…

See if the search can turn it up….

1) M20A….

-a-

[PT20J]

My 1994 M20J has a useful load of 1004.5 lb.

[carusoam]

@jack_carls0n

try this list for size…

The second to last post in this thread has a quick list…. Going back to 1958 including most of every model ever made….

 

[carusoam]

Selecting a Mooney is easy….

When you know which…

1) engine you want to fly behind…

2) turbo, or normally aspirated

3) Select the airframe that is right for you…. two or four passengers, short body, mid body, or Long body…

4) VFR or IFR

5) Does your finance administrator have a big budget, a huge budget, or a tiny budget to work with?

6) Does your team have any limitations… like nothing older than me, or must fit four adults on four hour legs…. Are we all comfortable with O2 systems… do we always fly over tall terrain or in IMC?

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[Will.iam]

Your load requirement is too great especially if you have a 5th soul on board.

unless you plan for multiple stops for fuel, As others have said go with a 6-seat plane. My neighbor has a baron twin and when leaned out can manage 10gph per side or 20gph and that gets him 160kts at 5k or so and 170kts at 10k so for slightly more fuel burn you get lots more room and useful load capability. 

[Hank]

My little C has 970 lb useful load, or 658 lb with fuel for 5-1/2 hours at ~145 knots or 800 nm.

But rear seat legroom is tight . . . . .

Fuel can always be traded for load. The missing 40 lb is almost 8 gal, so call range 4-1/2 hours like that. So 145 x 4.5 = 650 nm.

Please note that TAS will vary with power settings, air temperature and pressure, altitude and weather (bumps slow you down some, rain slows you down more).

And of course range varies with the winds aloft, even a crosswind will slow you down. My groundspeed envelope with similar power settings is 68-186 knots, while indicating in the low 140-mph range at 8-10K.

[Guest]

When a Mooney meeting the OP’s requirements is found, look in the baggage compartment for a Unicorn and the Tooth Fairy!

[Greg Ellis]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:51 PM, jack_carls0n said:

Now the complicated part is that we are not sure about all the different models for different years. Upon searching, we see multiple aircraft listed. Is there a guide off some kind to learn about the different variations. We see M20M Bravo (91, with TIO-540); M20J (92, with IO-360), M20S Eagle (99, IO550G), M20R Ovation (99, not sure the engine), M20J 201 Missile.

 

May have been mentioned already but this has some basic information about the different models manufactured and when.  It will get you up to 2006 at least.  Not sure if it will be helpful.

Mooney Model Chronology (mooneyevents.com)

But along with a few others here, I would love to recommend a Mooney to you and say it will be the perfect plane for your group but with what you are asking, you may want to seriously consider a 6 place airplane and realize you may be giving up efficiency for comfort and peace of mind knowing you can load the airplane how you want without sacrificing fuel, payload, passengers, etc... or change your flight mission to be 3 people and baggage in order to also be comfortable as well.  Just a thought.... good luck with the hunt.

[Pinecone]

My Mooney 252/Encore has an 1119 pound useful load.

That is a 252 that is updated to the Encore specs (engine, brakes and a few other things) that raises the MGW by 230 pounds (3130 pounds).

I also have the Monroy long rang e tanks, so 104 gallons total fuel.

You can do the math on the loading flexibility.

Tuesday I was at 13,000, TAS 173, burning 13.5 GPH ROP.

[Will.iam]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

My Mooney 252/Encore has an 1119 pound useful load.

That is a 252 that is updated to the Encore specs (engine, brakes and a few other things) that raises the MGW by 230 pounds (3130 pounds).

I also have the Monroy long rang e tanks, so 104 gallons total fuel.

You can do the math on the loading flexibility.

Tuesday I was at 13,000, TAS 173, burning 13.5 GPH ROP.

Wow your plane before the mod was 889! That is amazing! Mine is at 767 right now so the best an encore would get me is 997. I do still have an ADF and regular nav/position lights. I would like to go MT prop with the conversion so 11 lbs off as well as strobe power boxes i think at 5 lbs so 15 there. Not sure what an ADF weighs but a few pounds at least but no where near the 122lbs difference. Do you have steam  gauges or glass panel?

[carusoam]

Will,

The exciting thing about the lighter prop up front….

It is probably balanced with a block of lead in the back…

So going lighter up front, may count twice if the WnB calcs include Charlie weights…. 
 

There is some 10s of pounds to be found by dumping old avionics… lots of wire to go with them…

 

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Will.iam]

46 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Will,

The exciting thing about the lighter prop up front….

It is probably balanced with a block of lead in the back…

So going lighter up front, may count twice if the WnB calcs include Charlie weights…. 
 

There is some 10s of pounds to be found by dumping old avionics… lots of wire to go with them…

 

 

Best regards,

-a-

Unfortunately the one Charlie weight that was installed at the factory was removed just a year later by previous owner so can’t get any weight savings there. but 11lbs off the nose would help my nose heavy cg i have now as I’ve seen 20 extra pounds in the cargo compartment offset the nose up trim enough that at the same power settings, i go a little faster than without the weight. Also less trim changes for landing and lighter pull back on the yoke in the flare. 

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Wow your plane before the mod was 889! That is amazing! Mine is at 767 right now so the best an encore would get me is 997. I do still have an ADF and regular nav/position lights. I would like to go MT prop with the conversion so 11 lbs off as well as strobe power boxes i think at 5 lbs so 15 there. Not sure what an ADF weighs but a few pounds at least but no where near the 122lbs difference. Do you have steam  gauges or glass panel?

Sort of both.

Aspen 1000 PFD.  G5 secondary.  Still has Altimeter, Airspeed, T&B.  GTN650 replacing one nav/com.  No ADF.