Buying advise - would this scare you off?

[Cruiser]

14 hours ago, sleeper-319 said:

From the listing: 13,500 feet above sea level, 174 knots (200 MPH) GS burning 7.4 GPH!!! 

They selling me a bridge too? 

one of the pictures on the Ebay site is in flight. It looks like 2300 rpm and about 16" map. The GPS is showing 164kts. (not 174) with a 250 fpm descent,  13,500 Alt. and yes 7.4 gph on FF.
I would say the info is correct. It would be interesting to see more performance data with the 3 blade prop. Cruise speed normally takes a hit with those on a J model. 
It is a very nice looking airplane. Basic instrument panel and some history (gear up) --- a very thorough review of the logs would be wise. 

[Fly Boomer]

11 minutes ago, Cruiser said:

one of the pictures on the Ebay site is in flight. It looks like 2300 rpm and about 16" map. The GPS is showing 164kts. (not 174) with a 250 fpm descent

The 250 fpm descent makes all the difference! 

[amillet]

15 hours ago, sleeper-319 said:

From the listing: 13,500 feet above sea level, 174 knots (200 MPH) GS burning 7.4 GPH!!! 

They selling me a bridge too? 

Possible will a 50 knot tailwind 

[Parker_Woodruff]

If the engine was a factory overhaul exchange, that could explain it.

[Shadrach]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:31 AM, Pinecone said:

To be a bit pedantic, a factory overhaul would not reset the logs to 0 time.  A factory REBUILD or REMANUFACTURE does.  In fact, with those two, the engine gets a new data pale with a new serial number.  And a brand new logbook, showing 0 hours.

While the factory can delegate the ability to do a reman/rebuild, AFAIK, there are no such shops.  So only the factory.

The quality of a field overhaul can vary greatly.  As can the standards.  It could be overhauled to service limits or new limits.  Cylinders can be overhauled or new cylinders installed.

I read this caveat all the time yet I have never seen a “service limits” overhaul. Have you?

[Shadrach]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:31 AM, Pinecone said:

To be a bit pedantic, a factory overhaul would not reset the logs to 0 time.  A factory REBUILD or REMANUFACTURE does.  In fact, with those two, the engine gets a new data pale with a new serial number.  And a brand new logbook, showing 0 hours.

While the factory can delegate the ability to do a reman/rebuild, AFAIK, there are no such shops.  So only the factory.

The quality of a field overhaul can vary greatly.  As can the standards.  It could be overhauled to service limits or new limits.  Cylinders can be overhauled or new cylinders installed.

That’s because there are no other shops taking in large quantities of core engine trades. Core comes in and if internal components measure to specs they are reworked and reused in factory rebuilt “0 time” engine.   Zero time makes practical sense, I mean how complicated would it be to categorize an engine with a new roller cam, 2000hr rods and 4500hr crank. Just hit the magic 0 reset button.  I remember reading that Canada does not have a reg that allows for “ 0 time” so factory rebuilt engines are considered “total time unknown”. Doesn’t have nearly the marketing cache…

[Shadrach]

On 8/3/2022 at 1:41 AM, KendrickW715 said:

If the panel/autopilot setup is what you're looking for, you can always do an engine swap if the compressions keep dropping significantly from annual to annual. 60/80 is too low to fly. 

I have seen guidance that suggests that compressions under 60/80 should be investigated. I have never seen anything that says its unairworthy. Certainly want to ensure the valves aren’t leaking. Barring a valve problem, the airplane can be flown and the compression checked  in 10hr intervals.

[shawnd]

Few folks above said 69 and 70 PSI for Lycomings are worrying. Why? If it’s in 50s  I would investigate. Curious about it. 
 

Thanks. 

[Shadrach]

53 minutes ago, shawnd said:

Few folks above said 69 and 70 PSI for Lycomings are worrying. Why? If it’s in 50s  I would investigate. Curious about it. 
 

Thanks. 

  Guidance here SI1191A. 70 would only concern me because my compressions are rarely less than 77/80 except for an oddball reading the comes back up on a follow up check. It’s the change and or differential that raises eyebrows. No reason to pull a cylinder on compression alone. There are non invasive means of investigating further.

[0TreeLemur]

It sold for $137,902.50.

[Will.iam]

On 8/7/2022 at 10:18 AM, LANCECASPER said:

Looks like a nice airplane with the new style factory fiberglass interior which is definitely worth a premium ($15,000 in my opinion). Not sure why anyone would have to sell it on Ebay in this market though.

Looks like they are flying it out of annual, unless that was a ferry permit.  https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1996J

 

 

Well considering it was listed for sale on trade-a-plane for $159k OBO when no one called i guess he listed it on ebay and let the market tell him what it was worth. And with the sell price looks like he overestimated the value by 30k+

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Well considering it was listed for sale on trade-a-plane for $159k OBO when no one called i guess he listed it on ebay and let the market tell him what it was worth. And with the sell price looks like he overestimated the value by 30k+

159000 - 137902 = 21098

 

This airplane could have had a lot going for it.

However, selling an airplane via auction on Ebay screams "desperate to sell" and throws up way too many red flags for legitimate buyers. Flying it out of annual doesn't inspire confidence in the seller either. You don't get a second chance at a first impression. (You also don't need the owner in a purple sweatshirt in one of the pictures.) (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115478783818?hash=item1ae312674a%3Ag%3Ar9MAAOSwg81i5FDJ&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=eo7%2F7dUWz7JuTTTs4n5h6RbyZ%2BQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

In my opinion if they had (1) de-cluttered the airplane, (2) detailed it, including touching up a few chips (3) taken 50 professional pictures, including cowl off, (4) scanned and posted all of the logs and (5) presented a well-written professional ad they would have have sold it on trade-a-plane or controller for a lot more money than they got, even perhaps more than their original asking price.

 

[MoMooneyMoProblems]

Plot twist...I'm the one that won the eBay auction Monday night. Proud new future Mooney owner here!!   Owner messaged the top bidders that the compressions that afternoon came back as 75, 76, 75 and 80 (its having its annual done all this week). 

Everything is inked on a purchase agreement I sent over to them yesterday.  Regarding the price, it seems like they're just looking to get rid of it as they were using to commute to family that recently passed away.  I'm heading to Little Rock on Sunday/Monday to start checking it out.  Was thinking of having someone do an "a la carte" prebuy (bore scope, oil analysis, etc) since the annual has just now been completed.  Yes I realize they're 2 different things, although there is a lot of overlap.  Thoughts?

[ArtVandelay]

Priorities in order:
1. Inspect for corrosion (main spar, inside below the windows, tail).
2. Inspect the oil for metal (too late now I guess).
3. Fill fuel tanks, check for leaks (preferably a few hours later)


And have someone other than the annual mechanic do the inspection.

#1 Requires hours of labor removing interior and inspection panels but it’s necessary to do a thorough inspection.

[Tim-37419]

1 hour ago, MoMooneyMoProblems said:

Plot twist...I'm the one that won the eBay auction Monday night. Proud new future Mooney owner here!!   Owner messaged the top bidders that the compressions that afternoon came back as 75, 76, 75 and 80 (its having its annual done all this week). 

Everything is inked on a purchase agreement I sent over to them yesterday.  Regarding the price, it seems like they're just looking to get rid of it as they were using to commute to family that recently passed away.  I'm heading to Little Rock on Sunday/Monday to start checking it out.  Was thinking of having someone do an "a la carte" prebuy (bore scope, oil analysis, etc) since the annual has just now been completed.  Yes I realize they're 2 different things, although there is a lot of overlap.  Thoughts?

Ha! I'll up the plot twist. I started the thread and am based at FGU. Hope to see you in CHA airspace, look for a Cub yellow RV :-)

 

Tim

[steingar]

Have them leave it open so you can do your inspection.  You'll have to close it up (or pay to do so), but you'd have to do that anyway to carry out an inspection.

[MoMooneyMoProblems]

38 minutes ago, Tim-37419 said:

Ha! I'll up the plot twist. I started the thread and am based at FGU. Hope to see you in CHA airspace, look for a Cub yellow RV :-)

@Tim-37419 Holy hell, I was just at FGU the other day looking for hangar space!  I know a guy there with a Debonair for sale so might try to grab his.  Will certainly look out for you!

[MoMooneyMoProblems]

3 minutes ago, steingar said:

Have them leave it open so you can do your inspection.  You'll have to close it up (or pay to do so), but you'd have to do that anyway to carry out an inspection.

Good point.  I just talked to the mechanic and told him I wouldn't be hurt if he left a few panels off until Monday

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, MoMooneyMoProblems said:

Plot twist...I'm the one that won the eBay auction Monday night. Proud new future Mooney owner here!!   Owner messaged the top bidders that the compressions that afternoon came back as 75, 76, 75 and 80 (its having its annual done all this week). 

Everything is inked on a purchase agreement I sent over to them yesterday.  Regarding the price, it seems like they're just looking to get rid of it as they were using to commute to family that recently passed away.  I'm heading to Little Rock on Sunday/Monday to start checking it out.  Was thinking of having someone do an "a la carte" prebuy (bore scope, oil analysis, etc) since the annual has just now been completed.  Yes I realize they're 2 different things, although there is a lot of overlap.  Thoughts?

I assume, since you are buying this on eBay by eBay rules that this "pre-buy inspection" is a "go/no-go" inspection.  As they said in the description "Full payment can be delayed until after a satisfactory pre-buy inspection if desired (to be paid for by the buyer). 

Per normal eBay rules the Seller cannot agree to a lower price regardless of what the "high bidder" claims that the Pre-Buy finds.  The "high bidder" has to either accept or withdraw.  It then goes to the next highest bidder.  If the Seller drops the price below the "accepted high bid" for any reason the other Bidders will cry foul and get eBay to intervene.  

Some buyers try to use the Pre-buy Inspection to try to renegotiate the agreed upon price (which doesn't work in this market).  Others think the Pre-buy Inspection should simply be a confirmation of what was advertised and agreed upon. The "Discrepancies List" is like art - one person thinks it is meaningful while another may think it is garbage (i.e. cosmetic, nit picking, not material, window dressing, etc).    After all an AI has just signed off that the plane is Airworthy.  However the Pre-Buy Inspection may give you good reason to disagree - and good reason to walk away.  That is the normal purpose of the PreBuy Inspection.

 

[MoMooneyMoProblems]

41 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Per normal eBay rules the Seller cannot agree to a lower price regardless of what the "high bidder" claims that the Pre-Buy finds.  The "high bidder" has to either accept or withdraw.  It then goes to the next highest bidder.  If the Seller drops the price below the "accepted high bid" for any reason the other Bidders will cry foul and get eBay to intervene.  

Actually eBay vehicle bids and auctions are considered non-binding which is why I quickly had a "real" purchase agreement executed (based on AOPA's template). Basically eBay just served as facilitator and escrow holder for the deposit, but all else is now just like any other buttoned up purchase transaction.

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, MoMooneyMoProblems said:

Plot twist...I'm the one that won the eBay auction Monday night. Proud new future Mooney owner here!!   Owner messaged the top bidders that the compressions that afternoon came back as 75, 76, 75 and 80 (its having its annual done all this week). 

Everything is inked on a purchase agreement I sent over to them yesterday.  Regarding the price, it seems like they're just looking to get rid of it as they were using to commute to family that recently passed away.  I'm heading to Little Rock on Sunday/Monday to start checking it out.  Was thinking of having someone do an "a la carte" prebuy (bore scope, oil analysis, etc) since the annual has just now been completed.  Yes I realize they're 2 different things, although there is a lot of overlap.  Thoughts?

Congratulations - it looks like you got a good airplane that was just very poorly marketed. That worked in your favor! Good job!

[carusoam]

eBay is surely a quirky way to sell a nice plane….

And purple sweatshirts can be pretty quirky too…

To each their own…  

Congrats MMMP!

What’s next…

Transition Training?
 

Best regards,

-a-