Do people no longer honor their word?

[Pinecone]

Was all set to buy a plane this week.  Seller and I had a verbal agreement to do the deal.

I placed a deposit (via escrow) on the deal, and was waiting for the paper sales agreement, but was not worried, as a I trusted a Mooney owner.  We set up the pre-buy.  I arranged insurance, hanger, finalized the lending detail, etc.

The day the plane is to be delivered to the pre-buy, the seller backs out and decides to keep the plane.  And without the written sales agreement, he leaves everyone high and dry.  And does not even make an effort to take care of them.

Oh well, some people are like that.  And thanks for the reminder.

Anyone know of a nice 252 for sale?  Written sales agreement required.

[Rwsavory]

As a wise man once told me, “A contract is only as good as the people making it.“

[A64Pilot]

Either party can back out, more often than not it’s the buyer that does.

From my limited experience when the seller does, it means he’s gotten a better offer, and greed kicks in, some justify it by “it’s just business” Sometimes they will try to get you in a bidding war, which would be fine, except we already had an agreed on price, so it’s not.

When I bought my J, I went to see it very quickly after it had been listed, and we agreed on a price subject to passing an inspection, handshake. I know for a fact he got offers sight unseen for more than I was paying, but being a good ole boy he held to his handshake.

Reputation in smaller Southern towns means a lot, and everyone knows who’s word is good and who’s isn’t.

Good luck enforcing a written sales agreement, you could probably “win” but what would it cost in lawyer fees?

[JayMatt]

5 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Do people no longer honor their word?

I do, but I rarely come across someone that does. It's about 50/50 in the aviation world in my experience so far. Which is way higher than anywhere else. 

[LANCECASPER]

16 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Was all set to buy a plane this week.  Seller and I had a verbal agreement to do the deal.

I placed a deposit (via escrow) on the deal, and was waiting for the paper sales agreement, but was not worried, as a I trusted a Mooney owner.  We set up the pre-buy.  I arranged insurance, hanger, finalized the lending detail, etc.

The day the plane is to be delivered to the pre-buy, the seller backs out and decides to keep the plane.  And without the written sales agreement, he leaves everyone high and dry.  And does not even make an effort to take care of them.

Oh well, some people are like that.  And thanks for the reminder.

Anyone know of a nice 252 for sale?  Written sales agreement required.

Probably not a huge loss. If he doesn't keep his word on this, probably not the character of someone I'd want to buy an airplane from.

You “buy” the owner first, the airplane second.

[oregon87]

If you want to be really disappointed in humanity, list something for sale on Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace.  

Edited June 20, 2022 by oregon87

[WaynePierce]

Check with Jimmy Garrison https://www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com/

Good on his word and keeps an email list of buyers interested in a particular model for pre announcement of what he has coming in.

[Fly Boomer]

7 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Anyone know of a nice 252 for sale?

Jimmy Garrison had this is stock or maybe coming in soon:

1986 M20K '252' Encore Conversion.
<2000 Total Time
<200 Hours Since Factory Rebuild
Garmin GTN-650
Garmin GTX-345
Aspen PFD-1000
Garmin G-5 Glass
King KAP-150 with Altitude Preselect
JPI EDM-700
Monroy Long Range Tanks
Speed Brakes
WX-10A Stormscope
Very High Useful Load (somewhere between 1050 and 1100#
Good Cosmetics
Price is $249,000
 

[Pinecone]

I had been in contact with Jimmy.

Was set to buy 479CC, until we looked at the engine logs. 

The Encore conversion is a bit high, especially since I would have to paint and do the interior.  NOT to my taste.

 

[Aerodon]

5 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I had been in contact with Jimmy.

Was set to buy 479CC, until we looked at the engine logs. 

The Encore conversion is a bit high, especially since I would have to paint and do the interior.  NOT to my taste.

 

I'm curious, what did the engine logs show that is not going to be fixed at the overhaul?

 

Aerodon

[Wildhorsetrail]

I believe the value of a man's word is no longer what it once was. That being said, I bought my plane from a gentleman who was wonderful in this regard. We basically negotiated the deal over the phone, and finally met to trade check for bill of sale.

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, Wildhorsetrail said:

I believe the value of a man's word is no longer what it once was. That being said, I bought my plane from a gentleman who was wonderful in this regard. We basically negotiated the deal over the phone, and finally met to trade check for bill of sale.

Pretty similar for my purchase: handshake on price and terms, he flew the plane to my mechanic for PPI.  We did use an escrow to transfer money and title.

[KurtWhite]

9 hours ago, WaynePierce said:

Check with Jimmy Garrison https://www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com/

Good on his word and keeps an email list of buyers interested in a particular model for pre announcement of what he has coming in.

I agree.  I've purchased three planes through Jimmy.  Each time it all worked as it should each time.

[KLRDMD]

10 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Probably not a huge loss. If he doesn't keep his word on this, probably not the character of someone I'd want to buy an airplane from.

You “buy” the owner first, the airplane second.

I *always* do a pre-buy on the seller. I sometimes, but rarely do a pre-buy on the airplane.

[Mkruger2021]

Id rather think about the positives in people. "The glass half full theory" rather than negatives......Generally speaking, people in this hobby are good people. Just think about all the good advise that we all have contributed on this website for the good of others at the expense of our time....Its all out of the good of people...Just my two cents...

[kortopates]

15 hours ago, Aerodon said:

I'm curious, what did the engine logs show that is not going to be fixed at the overhaul?

 

Aerodon

note <200 hrs on factory rebuild 

[Fly Boomer]

13 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

I *always* do a pre-buy on the seller.

Who does those, and how much do they cost?

[M20F]

14 hours ago, KurtWhite said:

I agree.  I've purchased three planes through Jimmy.  Each time it all worked as it should each time.

Jimmy’s handshake deal with him cost him some money.  He made good.  For those looking can’t go wrong with him. 

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Who does those, and how much do they cost?

@KLRDMD is a doctor so he can insist on a colonoscopy when he does a pre-buy on the Seller  

[cliffy]

Or to get even when it falls through  :-) :-)   (think colonoscopy :-)

[BobbyH]

8 hours ago, Mkruger2021 said:

Id rather think about the positives in people. "The glass half full theory" rather than negatives......Generally speaking, people in this hobby are good people. Just think about all the good advise that we all have contributed on this website for the good of others at the expense of our time....Its all out of the good of people...Just my two cents...

I agree, the majority of those I interface with in general aviation are good people.  Most will go out of their way to help another pilot, especially with a damaged bird.  I love hearing the stories of a close friend of mine (ex-military) who has had numerous incidents with the old planes he has owned over the last 40 years.  So many have helped him out, loaning pistons to get him home, putting him and his de Havilland Chipmunk in the barn to weather a storm then feeding and housing filled the tanks and sent off with a bag lunch for the trip.  It goes on and on.  There are a few that left their mother too soon and still don't get it, but they are the exception not the norm.  So I'm going to enjoy the norm and apply some grace to those still in process of growing up. 

I do love the support the members on this site give one another.  It does bring me joy when I can rub shoulders with those who have so much more experience. 

[McMooney]

i'n america?  truth, morals and honesty are soo 20 years ago

[ilovecornfields]

3 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

@KLRDMD is a doctor so he can insist on a colonoscopy when he does a pre-buy on the Seller  

 

[shawnd]

On 6/20/2022 at 4:22 AM, Pinecone said:

Anyone know of a nice 252 for sale?  Written sales agreement required.

Three 252/Encores for sale on controller! 2 I believe from Jimmy:

https://www.controller.com/listings/search?Category=6&Model=M20K 252TSE|M20K ENCORE&Manufacturer=MOONEY

[Pinecone]

Thanks

Already talking to Jimmy.