Would you buy Mooney stock?

[Jocbay]

If it was available.  Just a thought that popped in me head.  I would, lord knows I’ve done way dumber things.  

[Niko182]

Lol no.

[chriscalandro]

The shop at my airport pushed all the airplanes they had outside one day, locked the doors, and nobody ever saw them again. 
 

Now that Mooney is doing annuals and maintenance, I half expect the same to happen in Texas one of these days. 

[GeeBee]

Depends on the business plan.

 

[201er]

58 minutes ago, Jocbay said:

If it was available.  Just a thought that popped in me head.  I would, lord knows I’ve done way dumber things.  

I think some of the MSCs and other suppliers try to stock up on common parts whenever they release them!

[Jocbay]

6 minutes ago, 201er said:

I think some of the MSCs and other suppliers try to stock up on common parts whenever they release them!

You are a funny guy!

[N9405V]

I would.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Joc,

Your question needs some guidelines to make answering even feasible…

1) Depends on your stock buying objective and strategy…

2) That’s in the vein of… how you like to gamble… investing is gambling with the odds in your favor…

3) And how you like to distribute your risk….

Say you own the Fortune 500…. And decide to add one more… now you have 501… go for it! Some will double, others will fade…

4) Some like to gamble on the CEO….

5) Study his track record at prior positions… know who he has on his team… some of those guys may be around here… often.

6) One thing for sure… the CEO of Mooney is a well known businessman with a great prior track record… all public information….

7) On the other hand…

There are environmental variables that aren’t accounted for in this question…

If you are only buying one stock…

and using your entire life savings…

and you have family depending on the outcome of your choices…

Expect the answer would be something similar to… ‘you would be crazy to do that’.

Too many eggs and only one basket?

 

8) I typically gamble my lunch money… if I’m wrong, I go hungry til dinner… 

9) You didn’t mention what a share costs…

10) Or if fractional shares could be purchased… so my lunch money can actually buy something, other than lunch…

11) If picking the right horse matters… like it does in investing…

12) I surely would bet my lunch tomorrow…

13) Mooney has the right CEO for the job…

14) He knows the business

15) He flys the product often…

16) He owned a Mooney before buying the company…

17) Add more details to the request… anybody that wouldn’t gamble their lunch money on Mooney… has already left the building… 
 

18) or is this a veiled request to see how many people know anything about stock purchasing,  and IPOs? (You sly dog…!)

19) Give us a starting PE ratio… pick a price, and it’s associated earnings… compare to textron or other small machine businesses…

20) Are you going to give a hint when earnings will be in the black… so we can assign an arbitrary goal of doubling the earnings?

 

21) To keep this in line with all things Aviation…

Boeing a big airplane company is having difficulty making money… swapping managers faster than they can fix their AP challenge…

GE a big plane engine company is having difficulty making money… it’s Leap engines are the WnB challenge that caused the 737’s funky AP to be required… GE is mired in other businesses and won’t split itself into three for quite some time… it’s in the plan…

22) Since the stock is not offered publicly… the answer is kinda no…

23) If I was a qualified investor…. Which means somebody handed me a stack of cash to work with… and Mooney was taking on qualified investors… that would be interesting…

24) The environment for investing in certain types of companies is terrible right now…

Companies that are currently holding their stock price are few…

They have to make stuff, and have a low PE ratio…

25) Very few companies are going public in the near term…

26) Companies that need to borrow money to grow have an extra challenge… borrowing costs are rising steeply… and will do so for a while…

27) for comparison… the S&P has a PE ratio of 19

28) How does the pandemic change your thoughts on this matter…? 

29) How does aircraft development change your thoughts on this matter… UL, auto land, turbine, pressurized, parachute, 100LL replacement….

30) What else has to go right… environmentally to sell more product?

 

Things that come to mind when mentioning buying a business… 

Finance discussions don’t have much success around MS… too many people are uneasy with the topic for various reasons…

Some people are waiting for the sun to shine…  others make it shine….

 

PP thoughts only, not a business owner… or financial manager…

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[A64Pilot]

9 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Depends on the business plan.

 

My answer is it would depend on their debt and fixed costs, then add in operating costs, subtract profit made from parts, if it’s a positive number then no, but obviously your not going to see those numbers.

There is money in parts, when Fred Ayres went under it was operated as a parts business for a few years by Quality Aerospace, but it wasn’t sustainable as the factory need a new roof and other maintenance that the parts business would have been hard pressed to pay for, and QA was only after what they could get in the short term anyway.

But if there is huge debt or some kind of large payment due every so often then that also may make it too hard

But to be honest I don’t buy stock, I gave my money over to an investment firm, and among other things of course, they buy stock. I fear I’d lose money playing the market myself.

I’d buy Gulfstream stock though, that’s the only segment of GA that’s growing, average Joe was priced out of GA long ago, most of us left can only afford OLD and getting older by the day airplanes.

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by A64Pilot

[Jocbay]

@carusoam Simple questions often beget complex answers.

[carusoam]

7 hours ago, Jocbay said:

@carusoam Simple questions often beget complex answers.

Some questions are overly simplified…

Why did you not give a sample answer to your own question…?

Why not give the reasons you chose yes/no…

 

Some people want to be part of a conversation…

But, if the first post is to easy to mis-understand…

You only get responses from me…

 

When a company is in tough financial shape right now… and the markets have become un-investable in the short term…

Who is going to want to hang out and discuss stock purchases?  Even imaginary ones…

Who wants to point out how difficult it is to make money building planes?

Maybe you are new to finance and public conversations…? 
 

There are soooo many better topics that can be selected to foster a decent conversation…

it takes practice starting a conversation…. Find 201er and his polls…

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

20 hours ago, Jocbay said:

If it was available.  
 

Just a thought that popped in me head.

 I would, lord knows

I’ve done way dumber things.  

1) Sensitive topic for some…

2) Not available anyways…

3) I missed your answer…

4) You called it dumb to do so…

5) Are you expecting people are going to admit they would do something dumb intentionally, in an aviation forum?

How else can I help?

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

I vote Mike @201er head of sales.  He’s made enough videos to convince any skeptic.

Clarence

[Jocbay]

@carusoam It’s just conversation. We certainly aren’t going to solve anything so complex here. 

Thanks for you insight; I always value your opinion.  Sincerely jb

[0TreeLemur]

On 4/24/2022 at 8:47 PM, GeeBee said:

Depends on the business plan.

 

Agree with this.

 

[Raptor05121]

I would buy one for the symbol aspect only.

[0TreeLemur]

In a perfect world, based on synthesis of what others with a lot more experience in the business than me have written here.  A "12-step" program.

1.  Retool manufacturing to reduce labor by 40%  Might require use of more composites, elimination of tubular steel frame.

2.  Keep the M20 wing

3.  Re-design landing gear for more UL

4.  Add a ballistic chute option

5.  Two base models, one with an IO-360 (J-like) and the other an IO-540 (M-like)  Note: I'm a Lycoming fan

6.  Sell it with a basic panel with options for glass and AP.  The basic model should have just enough panel for an IFR trainer.   Stock engine monitor to eliminate all that other stuff.

7.  One door is enough

8.  Increase cabin width by 1.5" because people are growing wider

9.  Factory install fuel bladders

10.  Redesign to make the baggage compartment door extend to the floor of the baggage compartment

11.  Easy to remove rear seats

12.  (interesting but potentially problematic in terms of head space) Rear seats can be installed aft facing

What would this cost?  How much would Mooney have to sell each base model for to make a few bucks?

 

[carusoam]

6 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

I would buy one for the symbol aspect only.

Back in the day… when there were paper certificates that represented shares that you owned…

One would make a nice wall decoration that may have some value to it… kind of like fancy art…

Many kids rooms had a few shares of Walt Disney hanging on the wall…. 
 

A share of Mooney posted on the wall… would make great hangar art!

Best regards,

-a-

[INA201]

A lot of folks donate money because they get a little something in return and a good feeling.    Let’s say the offering was specifically to get ten new ultras off the production line with no expectation of seeing the money again.  Once those roll off your donation/investment/endowment is specifically used for the physical costs of the next run of planes.  The factory will need to make the labor, marketing, liability, and plant costs work.  
Separately, Let’s say the Mooney factory has $x debt as well as some other cost challenges that we are all unaware of. I might be willing to do a crowd funding donation to help.  The problem is it needs to be all or nothing. Why donate/invest if the collective donation amount is not enough to get this thing rolling.  How about a specific funding for say the gross weight increase STCs? When folks work as a team great things can happen. Just my multiple AMUs worth(minus two cents).

[Pete M]

Not just no, but hell no...

[hammdo]

On 4/26/2022 at 8:54 PM, 0TreeLemur said:

In a perfect world, based on synthesis of what others with a lot more experience in the business than me have written here.  A "12-step" program.

1.  Retool manufacturing to reduce labor by 40%  Might require use of more composites, elimination of tubular steel frame.

2.  Keep the M20 wing

3.  Re-design landing gear for more UL

4.  Add a ballistic chute option

5.  Two base models, one with an IO-360 (J-like) and the other an IO-540 (M-like)  Note: I'm a Lycoming fan

6.  Sell it with a basic panel with options for glass and AP.  The basic model should have just enough panel for an IFR trainer.   Stock engine monitor to eliminate all that other stuff.

7.  One door is enough

8.  Increase cabin width by 1.5" because people are growing wider

9.  Factory install fuel bladders

10.  Redesign to make the baggage compartment door extend to the floor of the baggage compartment

11.  Easy to remove rear seats

12.  (interesting but potentially problematic in terms of head space) Rear seats can be installed aft facing

What would this cost?  How much would Mooney have to sell each base model for to make a few bucks?

 

They were on that path once. Tell me that wasn't a sexy plane:

-Don

[Raptor05121]

I though the M10 was their savings grace. RIP

[0TreeLemur]

That woulda been cool.

 

[aviatoreb]

On 4/24/2022 at 9:14 PM, Jocbay said:

If it was available.  Just a thought that popped in me head.  I would, lord knows I’ve done way dumber things.  

In 1983 I bought my first Apple II - before the II+, after mowing lawns all summer.

The next summer I bought a pair of floppy drives with more lawn mowing money. I wanted to buy Apple stock with some more of the lawn mowing money, like $100, but my step father inlay thought it was a dumb fly by night company and put his foot down and blocked. it.

The was my dumbest stock maneuver.  Listing to him!  Haha....

[Schllc]

Stock?
Probably not.

However, if they started something like a “preferred service plan”, and got enough enough owners or shops to participate, I would be seriously interested.
For example:   
$1,000 annually would give you tech support on the phone for issues, priority for scheduling service, maybe a 10% discount on parts.  Perhaps even some mobile service available to members only (at market rates of course)
All the service, repairs and parts would also be additional.
If 1,000 owners participated in the plan it would generate $1,000,000 annually to the service/parts dept. Perhaps an initial offering of five years for $4,000 that would be transferable with the plane?

Before I get flamed too bad for this suggestion ….
The numbers I propose are arbitrary, perhaps different tiers would be feasible…maybe a different amount would be more attractive.
It just seems to me that it’s the interest of Mooney owners to make sure their planes aren’t orphaned.
This isn’t about charity, I would look at it more like an insurance policy. 
With residual income Mooney could actually stock parts, procure materials and forecast.
it’s unconventional for sure, but it would be easy enough for them to come up with an amount needed to launch this kind of a program, solicit input and commitments and implement once the goal is achieved, or just return all the deposits if not met. 
it’s obvious something outside the box needs to be done, because the traditional model just isn’t viable anymore.