Any Mooney 20K or 20M owners in Houston, TX

[I_C_Mooney]

Howdy!

I am currently working on my private pilot license, just got my first solo done. I am really interested in purchasing a Mooney M20K (252 preferable) or a Bravo. As expected, I have never been in a Mooney or experienced a flight with it. I was wondering if there are any Mooney owners in Houston, TX area who could show their Mooney. I just want to see how it feels to be in one of them and have a good idea before starting to really pursue purchasing one. I have driven a Prius for too many years and now drive another very efficient vehicle. I just like the idea of efficiency, and I like the idea of Mooney even more due to its speed and efficiency. Most of my travels are going to be between Houston, Austin, and Dallas in TX, once-twice a year to OH, and a few times to AL and NC. We are a family of four, kids are 8 and 6 and, I expect to fly alone 90% of the time. So, on paper, these two Mooneys seem to be perfect. I am also considering Bonanza and my instructor kindly suggests I should get a Bonanza  .  After the private pilot certificate, I will probably fly for a while to feel comfortable with the airplane then I will start working on my IFR.  

I am currently flying out of David Wayne Hooks (KDWH) in Houston but I will be also willing to drive to another airport to see the airplanes. 

I read these forums a lot so I want to put a disclaimer about my safety policy. I am planning to train with a Mooney-specific instructor as much as needed before I attempt to fly by myself or fly with loved ones. I believe I can fly safely and proficiently after some training in a fast Mooney. 

 

So, I have two questions, would you suggest these airplanes for my situation, and do you know anybody or if you are in Houston can you show me your Mooney?

Regards,

IC

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by I_C_Mooney

[Mcstealth]

Welcome to the forum. Please stick around and add your thoughts to our group. 

As far as your mission. With two growing children, the 252 would most likely NOT be a good match as its UL capacity is one of the lowest of most Mooneys compared to its high performance. You and only one other all the time? Then sure, go for it. Standard K model? Just find one with a high UL. Same issue somewhat as a 252. The best K model for your family would be the Encore. As for the Bravo? Sure. Go for it.

What is great about Mooney is that probably 85% of your mission would be well served by the 201 or F model. No turbo, but fabulous overall efficiency. 

Good luck. Someone from Houston will chime in soon. 

 

[kortopates]

Generally 252's don't have low useful load, certainly not the lowest in the fleet yet comparable to other mid-bodies around 850-900 lbs useful. Plus 252's are eligible for the Encore conversion which adds another 230 lbs to the max take off weight and useful load.

But mines probably the highest in the fleet since I've been working on improving it for many years. My 252/Encore useful load is over 1120 lbs! That's beats a lot of Bravo's, which do cruise faster with their 280HP, but not nearly as fuel efficient as 252/Encore with 220HP.   But lots of tradeoffs to consider. Useful and efficiency are just a couple. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by kortopates

[I_C_Mooney]

Thank you Mcstealth and Paul for the information.

Paul,

Can all 252s be converted to Encore and do you have any idea for the cost of conversion?

Regards,

IC

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard I_C_!

Are you on a fast track for training?

Very focussed on reaching this goal?

Going from low hours, to Fastest Mooney in the fleet…. Takes an extra level of commitment….  
 

Yes, some people around here do that… While they focus on their business, practice, or shop….

If you like efficiency… M20E, and M20J are probably the most efficient… a combination of light weight, LOP, and modern aerodynamics, really help…

If you like ultimate speed… 252, Encore, Bravo, and Acclaim are great for flying around the flight levels….

Updating any aircraft in a big way… takes a ton of practice and experience… and dough….

 

You may want to take a flight into the FLs prior to committing to buying a TC/TN’d plane….  More commitment to go with the extra capability… 

 

By the time you reach your Long Body goals…. You will be fully committed…. 

Start easy… long cross country planning… you get to be your own weatherman!

Enjoy the hunt…

Ask a ton of questions…

Best regards,

-a-

[Mooney Dog]

16 hours ago, I_C_Mooney said:

I am currently flying out of David Wayne Hooks (KDWH) in Houston but I will be also willing to drive to another airport to see the airplanes. 

If you see my green and brown bird while im making a stop up there come say hi! Are you with the flight school up there? If so they have a bonanaza you can look at as you start moving into complex aircraft. Texas flight i think has 2 arrows that are good to learn on as well. Im unsure about UFS. Either way finish your private, work on the complex, maybe take a few IFR lessons, then think about ownership! Complex with no IFR and low time will be fun for insurance. 

 

16 hours ago, I_C_Mooney said:

Most of my travels are going to be between Houston, Austin, and Dallas in TX, once-twice a year to OH, and a few times to AL and NC. We are a family of four, kids are 8 and 6 and, I expect to fly alone 90% of the time.

My E model easily does houston to austin in about an hour, dallas in 2. I recently did DWH to ELD in 2. I plan for 140TAS at 10GPH and ill mostly get 150 up high and 9.6gph instead. Taking people it starts getting complicated. I can take one person no problem. 2 people i have to start worrying about fuel. 3 people and im probably not going. 

My E has a aux tank as well, I can do El Paso without stopping. Just takes 5ish hours wish the winds. 

[I_C_Mooney]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:27 AM, mike261 said:

There's a specific number of 252's eligible for the conversion, I'm not sure if its all of them. I have accumulated all the parts except one bell crank for the master cylinders and all the drawings for the conversion and its in the neighborhood of 8k for the parts. not sure about the labor, but add in another 3k for the engine mods. the 3k for engine mods  may very well be low. My SWAG is 18-20K

 

Thank you Mike for the estimate,  what year is your Mooney?

 

 

On 4/19/2022 at 10:37 PM, carusoam said:

Are you on a fast track for training?

Very focussed on reaching this goal?

Carusoam,

Unfortunately, I am not on any kind of fast track training. There are a lot of work and general life responsibilities. I was hoping I could get my private pilot license in 3-4 months but it has been about 6 months already. I can only fly on certain days early in the morning and weather does not always cooperate.

I also want to get an airplane early and get more experience in it because I know if it is just another hour on a rental airplane to stay proficient, I might let it slip from my hands. However, if I get an airplane I will be able to use to almost regularly for work/business (weather permitting). The last time I kind of roughly calculated I could fly about 200 hours a year easily. That is just business travel (again weather permitting) I expect actual hours potentially being higher combined with family trips.

Even with the covid I have driven over 30K miles a year and usually gets close to 45-50K miles a year. I always liked the idea of flying an aircraft but I see it as a tool to earn some of my hours back from driving. So, am I focused reaching my goals, I would say yes without hesitation.

 

On 4/20/2022 at 9:12 AM, Mooney Dog said:

If you see my green and brown bird while im making a stop up there come say hi! Are you with the flight school up there? If so they have a bonanaza you can look at as you start moving into complex aircraft. Texas flight i think has 2 arrows that are good to learn on as well. Im unsure about UFS. Either way finish your private, work on the complex, maybe take a few IFR lessons, then think about ownership! Complex with no IFR and low time will be fun for insurance. 

I am taking classes at the UFS, to the best of my knowledge they don't have Bonanza in the fleet. I am training with warriors. They have a cirrus and a twin engine airplane those could be a candidate for training for IFR. I have not asked about insurance yet but based on my reading it seems I may need to pay a lot in the first year. However, if I can fly my own plane that will still be cheaper than flying rentals, especially in the long term. As I could potentially accumulate more hours quickly.

If I see you by luck I will say hi but due to work, I leave the airport immediately after I finish the class.

 

Thank you everyone again, for the wisdom and knowledge  you are sharing with me.

Regards,

IC

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by I_C_Mooney

[carusoam]

2 minutes ago, I_C_Mooney said:

Thank you Mike for the estimate,  what year is your Mooney?

 

 

Carusoam,

Unfortunately, I am not on any kind of fast track training. There are a lot of work and general life responsibilities. I was hoping I could get my private pilot license in 3-4 months but it has been about 6 months already. I can only fly on certain days early in the morning and weather does not always cooperate.

I also want to get an airplane early and get more experience in it because I know if it is just another hour on an rental airplane to stay proficient, I might let it slip from my hands. However, if I get an airplane I will be able to use to almost regularly for work/business (weather permitting). The last time I kind of roughly calculated I could fly about 200 hours a year easily. That is just business travel (again weather permitting) I expect actual hours potentially being higher combined with family trips.

Even with the covid I have driven over 30K miles a year and usually gets close to 45-50K miles a year. I always liked the idea of playing an aircraft but I see as a tool to earn some of my hours back from driving. So, am I focused reaching my goals, I would say yes without hesitation.

 

I am taking classes at the UFS, to the best of my knowledge they don't have Bonanza in the fleet. I am training with warriors. They have a cirrus and a twin engine airplane those could be a candidate for training for IFR. I have not asked about insurance yet but based on my reading it seems I may need to pay a lot in the first year. However, if I can fly my own plane that will still be cheaper than flying rentals, especially in the long term. As I could potentially accumulate more hours quickly.

If I see you by luck I will say hi but due to work I live the airport immediately after I finish the class.

 

Thank you everyone again, for the wisdom you share with me.

Regards,

IC

 

 

 

IC,

You are doing the right thing… the right way…

Just keep both eyes open as gaining experience is tough to get in any short amount of time….
 

Lots of experience gathering includes various types of weather that are only available certain times of the year…

Don’t rush to end up with too much plane without enough experience…

This combination will try to ruin your day… 

 

Getting to hang out with other pilots in the area is another method of getting local experience….

Around my neck of the woods are the NJMPs New Jersey Mooney pilots…

Many navigation issues are local… learning the best way to handle them comes from your local friends…

Enjoy the trainer experience while you can… it makes great comparisons to what you fly next… no two planes control flight the same way…

Mooneys just do it better…!

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[Niko182]

If youre a family of 4, you want 6 seats. 210, toga, or A36 is the go to. A TN A36 will probably be as efficient as a bravo. Nothing compares to a 252 in terms of efficiency however. Been there and done that. I love the mooney, but it just really isn't a 4 seat airplane. I have 1216 pounds of useful load so anything that fits goes, but with 4 people, its always tight. Just my 2 cents.

[Z W]

I fly a mid-body with a family of 4, boys ages 11 and 6 (and growing fast).

We all fit just fine for now.  Their growing size has me eyeing upgrades.  It really takes a 6-seat twin to do much better than the Mooney for hauling us around.  The 6-seat singles (36 Bonanza, Saratoga, Lance, 210, etc.) have more useful load on paper, but it comes with a much higher fuel burn, so you have to carry a lot more fuel with the higher useful load, and often a lower cruise speed to match.  I'm not saying the Mooney is the best load hauler, because it's not, but the useful load number is just one factor in moving people across miles.  Efficiency helps a lot.

I've also read here that by the time the kids are teenagers too large to haul, they're in sports, have significant others, and generally otherwise aren't going on very many family vacations with mom and dad.  And it's only a few years before they're out of the house.  And then you might regret selling that Mooney that was perfect for you and your spouse and buying a 6-seat, gas-guzzling, high-maintenance airplane.  So maybe it's best to pack carefully and just fly the Mooney on shorter legs.

Just sharing my thoughts.  Good luck with your search.

[kortopates]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:02 PM, I_C_Mooney said:

Thank you Mcstealth and Paul for the information.

Paul,

Can all 252s be converted to Encore and do you have any idea for the cost of conversion?

Regards,

IC

All 252's are eligible for the conversion. Many have been converted.

Cost for the conversion varies entirely on how much of a hurry the owner is to do it. Its mostly brake parts; the engine is pretty trivial. Through my practice with Savvy I've seen an occasional owner send their engine out for overhaul elect to get the engine back as the -SB for the Encore and then have to scramble to get all the airframe parts to complete the conversion. You can do the brake upgrade first and then do the engine and control weights anytime later but you can't do the engine without doing it all.

[I_C_Mooney]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

Just keep both eyes open as gaining experience is tough to get in any short amount of time….

Thank you I understand that with time comes a better understanding of any subject if you keep working on it. 

 

6 hours ago, Niko182 said:

f youre a family of 4, you want 6 seats. 210, toga, or A36 is the go to. A TN A36 will probably be as efficient as a bravo.

I thought about this a lot but in the end, I figured out that 90% of the time I will be flying alone. Considering the acquisition cost difference between 4 and 6 seaters, and the additional fuel burn, it seems like maybe it is not the best choice for me/us at least for now. 

 

 

[I_C_Mooney]

5 hours ago, Z W said:

I've also read here that by the time the kids are teenagers too large to haul, they're in sports, have significant others, and generally otherwise aren't going on very many family vacations with mom and dad. 

Well, my 8 years old is already in his own world with friends and soccer practice and matches. He seems to be excited about flying though so maybe he will get interested in flying and we can spend some quality time together due to aviation. 

 

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

All 252's are eligible for the conversion. Many have been converted.

Cost for the conversion varies entirely on how much of a hurry the owner is to do it. Its mostly brake parts; the engine is pretty trivial. Through my practice with Savvy I've seen an occasional owner send their engine out for overhaul elect to get the engine back as the -SB for the Encore and then have to scramble to get all the airframe parts to complete the conversion. You can do the brake upgrade first and then do the engine and control weights anytime later but you can't do the engine without doing it all.

Good to know that all 252s can be converted. Mike earlier mentioned that he accumulated the parts over time. Can these parts be found easily for potentially at higher prices or do they require really long-term planning?

 Thanks in advance!

[carusoam]

14 hours ago, I_C_Mooney said:

Thank you I understand that with time comes a better understanding of any subject if you keep working on it. 

 

The tough part about this subject… there is no do-over, or reset… 

To be safest… there is a ton to work on… which is gained stepwise…

Adding additional steps adds to the total work load… the high performance, then the really high powered, or the turbocharged flying in the flight levels… or the twin…

The hard part… is gaining all of that experience before you get considered safe… (the insurance companies have a financial definition for this)

Will you be going to instrument rating next?

Its all worth The effort…

expect time, schedules, and weather to try to get in your way…

My family of four traveled well in a short body, until the kids became full size… we started looking for an M20J at that time…

Then we went Long Body…

We always filled the four seats…

With 1000LBs of useful load… you get to decide how you want to spread that around between people and fuel…

How many hours can you keep your kids captive in a plane without taking a break?

Kids are pretty good  about sleeping in a plane… they can be asleep during the taxi to the runway… headsets and Movies are perfect for them…

Any flights more than three hours… I start planning a break… for the people, not the plane… 

Some MSers start various threads about what they are learning… and post updates often…

Some MSers have really good writing skills and great detailed memories of their flights…

Start the plane hunt early… you never know how long it will take to find the bird you are looking for…

Small kids make great wing levelers… and autopilots… they aren’t tall enough to see out the windshield, but they can follow instruments really well! 
 

Imagine for a moment… you are traveling at 200mph in a long body Mooney… you can be at grandma’s house in an hour and fifteen minutes… compared to driving at about five hours…

You can be back home after dinner… try that with your favorite family car… then throw on some weather and traffic for reality… 

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Austintatious]

One of my Mooney rockets lives at cleaveland. on the NE corner of the Houston area...   If you are willing to go that far, My partner may be able to show you the airplane.

[kortopates]

23 hours ago, I_C_Mooney said:

Can these parts be found easily for potentially at higher prices or do they require really long-term planning?

Cheapest if you can find them salvage for much leg work on your part. Much more expensive from the factory. But the factory has very few parts sitting on the shelf; especially these parts which aren't commonly replaced. So expect a significant wait for them to be made to order.

Cheapest if you buy a 252 converted Encore rather than do it your self; plus a 252 conversion will have a higher useful load than a factory Encore.

When shopping for 252 or 252/Encore, I personally wouldn't buy one without the optional dual alternators. Its not practical to add after the fact. Almost everything else on the 252's and Encore came standard including Hot Prop, O2, and Speedbrakes except perhaps the articulating seats (not sure) which is also highly desirable. There were different avionics packages but a modern panel would have completely replaced those anyway including autopilot.

[I_C_Mooney]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:06 AM, Austintatious said:

One of my Mooney rockets lives at cleaveland. on the NE corner of the Houston area...   If you are willing to go that far, My partner may be able to show you the airplane.

Thank you! Yes, I could drive there one weekend to check it out. 

[I_C_Mooney]

On 4/22/2022 at 2:19 AM, carusoam said:

Will you be going to instrument rating next?

Its all worth The effort…

Yes, I am thinking that after I get used to the airplane I will start training for IFR rating. It will make me a safer pilot and potentially allow me to fly more days. Maybe I will knock down my 50 hours of cross country as PIC to qualify for IFR then start training for IFR. I have not taught more than in terms of details. I just know I will do it without much delay.

On 4/22/2022 at 2:19 AM, carusoam said:

You can be back home after dinner… try that with your favorite family car… then throw on some weather and traffic for reality…

This is one of the pillars of why I wanted to get a pilot certificate and an airplane.  Driving between Houston and Dallas on the same day means about 7-10 hours of driving depending on traffic. In my younger years, I could do that and still function okay. Now, it feels like a big mental drain. I did fly commercial a few times but that is not very time efficient either just because I need to be at the airport about an hour before the flight time, flight schedule,  etc. 

 

On 4/22/2022 at 2:19 AM, carusoam said:

Start the plane hunt early… you never know how long it will take to find the bird you are looking for…

I am totally trying to do that by learning about these airplanes and deciding what are must-haves for me before I consider buying something. I am also almost regularly checking usual suspect websites for airplanes to see if something I like shows up. 

 

 

22 hours ago, kortopates said:

Cheapest if you buy a 252 converted Encore rather than do it your self; plus a 252 conversion will have a higher useful load than a factory Encore.

I am going to keep an eye on 252s. So far, I saw 4 252s on various websites, all of them say MB engines. That means it is not Encore, am I right?

I found one Encore conversion in France with  a USA N number but the listing seems to be a few months old so I am not sure if it is actually there anymore.

 

22 hours ago, kortopates said:

When shopping for 252 or 252/Encore, I personally wouldn't buy one without the optional dual alternators.

This is a great point; I can only guess the benefits of dual alternators for IFR flight but I added it to the "must-have" list for 252s. 

 

Thank you very much again for all information and insights!

Regards,

IC

[ronan2327]

I have one for sale. 1989 M20K 252TSE. 

[I_C_Mooney]

17 hours ago, 73767 said:

I have one for sale. 1989 M20K 252TSE. 

Hi,

I might be interested in your 252. Is there a way to get additional information about it?

Regards,

IC

[ronan2327]

You can email me at ronan2327@gmail.com. 

IMG_5989.HEIC

[I_C_Mooney]

Thank you I sent you an email.