Insurance question

[Wildhorsetrail]

I got some quotes for insurance in anticipation of buying a Mooney. I have just under 500 total time, an IR, and 13 hrs complex, all in a Commanche. The insurance company is asking for 10 hrs dual instruction before solo. Does this sound about like your experience?

 

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[201er]

2 minutes ago, Wildhorsetrail said:

 

I got some quotes for insurance in anticipation of buying a Mooney. I have just under 500 total time, an IR, and 13 hrs complex, all in a Commanche. The insurance company is asking for 10 hrs dual instruction before solo. Does this sound about like your experience?

You’ll probably want the 10 hours whether the insurance makes you or not 

[PT20J]

Yes. Very common requirement for 10 hours dual in make and model for a complex airplane if you don’t have prior make and model time.

[MikeOH]

Nothing unusual about 10 hours, at all.

[PT20J]

When I was in Anchorage, a local pilot bought a Taylorcraft. He didn't have any tailwheel time and the insurance company required 10 hours tailwheel instruction before solo. He flew with an instructor once and then figured he didn't need any more. He lost control of it landing in a crosswind at Merrill Field, ran off the runway and chopped the tail off a JetRanger parked on Alyeska Helicopter's ramp. I understand the damage to the monocoque structure was about $100K. 

Skip

[Utah20Gflyer]

I was required to do 10 hours dual when I purchased my Mooney last year. It seems to be pretty standard now when transitioning to a new aircraft.   In my case I needed to ferry the plane from Tucson AZ to Salt lake which we spent 5 hours doing, then the next day we flew 5 hours and I was done.  Not a big deal. 

[201er]

9 hours ago, PT20J said:

When I was in Anchorage, a local pilot bought a Taylorcraft. He didn't have any tailwheel time and the insurance company required 10 hours tailwheel instruction before solo. He flew with an instructor once and then figured he didn't need any more. He lost control of it landing in a crosswind at Merrill Field, ran off the runway and chopped the tail off a JetRanger parked on Alyeska Helicopter's ramp. I understand the damage to the monocoque structure was about $100K. 

Skip

Did insurance end up paying or not?

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, 201er said:

Did insurance end up paying or not?

Last I heard, no.

[carusoam]

Wild horse,

We have an insurance guy around here…

He likes answering questions….

Find @Parker_Woodruff

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

20 hours ago, PT20J said:

Last I heard, no.

Yeah that’s what I would expect in a case of wantonly ignoring the stated agreed conditions of the insurance.

 

[201er]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

Yeah that’s what I would expect in a case of wantonly ignoring the stated agreed conditions of the insurance.

What if he didn't crash it in the first 10 hours... Got over 10 hours solo successfully and then crashed it at some later point? However, he still has not logged 10 hours dual as required per insurance. @Parker_Woodruff, would this void his insurance for a future accident, even years later?

[Parker_Woodruff]

54 minutes ago, 201er said:

What if he didn't crash it in the first 10 hours... Got over 10 hours solo successfully and then crashed it at some later point? However, he still has not logged 10 hours dual as required per insurance. @Parker_Woodruff, would this void his insurance for a future accident, even years later?

probably not if the occurrence happened during a subsequent policy period.

[Parker_Woodruff]

On 3/15/2022 at 7:44 PM, Wildhorsetrail said:

 

I got some quotes for insurance in anticipation of buying a Mooney. I have just under 500 total time, an IR, and 13 hrs complex, all in a Commanche. The insurance company is asking for 10 hrs dual instruction before solo. Does this sound about like your experience?

 

Sent from my SM-A326U1 using Tapatalk

With only 13 hours retractable, that's not out of line.

If you had maybe 25 or 50 hours of RG experience, it'd probably be lower.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

What if he didn't crash it in the first 10 hours... Got over 10 hours solo successfully and then crashed it at some later point? However, he still has not logged 10 hours dual as required per insurance. @Parker_Woodruff, would this void his insurance for a future accident, even years later?

I would guess that if you didn't follow the required contractual training then you are out of contract.  And if you willfully are out of contract that they would see themselves also out of contractual obligates and no need to pay you.

[WaynePierce]

I had no prior complex and just over 300 hours, my insurance required 15 hours with an instructor. Insurance companies have changed since then, they now want your transition trainer to have X hours in model not just type so if that instructor doesn't have time in a J but 1000 hours in an C, its a no go.

[Parker_Woodruff]

1 minute ago, WaynePierce said:

I had no prior complex and just over 300 hours, my insurance required 15 hours with an instructor. Insurance companies have changed since then, they now want your transition trainer to have X hours in model not just type so if that instructor doesn't have time in a J but 1000 hours in an C, its a no go.

We can get specific approvals if they've flown similar models.  I had a bunch of C, F, and J hours but needed to give training in an M20E.  The insurance company just made me go fly solo for an hour prior to giving training.

[WaynePierce]

2 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

We can get specific approvals if they've flown similar models.  I had a bunch of C, F, and J hours but needed to give training in an M20E.  The insurance company just made me go fly solo for an hour prior to giving training.

That's great to know, I had not heard anything about this before.

[Tommooney]

My hanger neighbor just bought a beautiful Bellanca Super Viking and had to get 15 hours dual. His previous plane is a Tomahawk for a few years. You can see what he did for training flights in short time on flightaware this month: N16AW. He said he is good to go now.

 

Tom

[carusoam]

12 hours ago, WaynePierce said:

That's great to know, I had not heard anything about this before.

There are soooo many combinations… and very few get into the boiler plate insurance documents….

Fortunately… We have Parker!

Parker knows Mooney Flying and insurance companies…

And does a great job matching all the details… to get MSers the coverage that they need / want….

Still working on the latest challenge….  Insuring people that have aged uncontrollably…. It’s not their fault….  
 

Go Airspeed Insurance!

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Utah20Gflyer]

13 hours ago, WaynePierce said:

I had no prior complex and just over 300 hours, my insurance required 15 hours with an instructor. Insurance companies have changed since then, they now want your transition trainer to have X hours in model not just type so if that instructor doesn't have time in a J but 1000 hours in an C, its a no go.

In my case I got 1 hour dual in a J model before I bought my G.  I asked the insurance company if I could count it and they said no.  Had to be my plane. 

[carusoam]

I’ve never wrung out a plane…. Like I did during my transition training with a Mooney specific CFII…

Except once before… in a C152, during my PPL practical…. The FAA representative (?) gave great insight on how to fly the C152 with exactness that it is capable of… in a way that ordinary time building CFIs probably don’t know yet…

 

There is sooo much to learn, see, do… in at least three areas… from ordinary flying procedures, to emergency procedures, to long X-countries in IMC… using all that is available to the pilot….

Use the hours to get something you don’t already have…

Avoid doing the same hour flight ten times… 

 

Most interesting few minutes….  E-descent from altitude…. You can be on the ground in a few minutes….

Love those speed brakes!

I was given 10hrs or so for transition going from the M20C to the M20R…

Odd experiences I picked up during the TT…

1) ATC gave us a vector to waste time before getting into the system… I was doing 170kias in the wrong direction…. So we slowed it way down…

2) stopped for fuel… watched the airport get shut down because a regional jet ran off the one available runway… somebody knows the details…lesson in airport management learned…

3) Picked up some ice during our last instrument approach… boy that stuff grows fast!  February in NJ….

4) Estimated descent rate in full E-descent… >5kfpm… a real elevator down when you need it….

5) It was also the first time I had moved over the ground in a GA plane at 200+KTs….

 

Reasons to look forward to transition training… 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI…

Best regards,

-a-