Who locks their controls like this?

[Derrickearly]

[201er]

Nope

[0TreeLemur]

Someone who needs to buy a control lock?

[amillet]

21 minutes ago, Derrickearly said:

 

[PeteMc]

I was always taught the method where the seatbelt goes through one horn of the yoke.  So (the way I do it) the yoke is fully deflected to the right.

Might have to try your way to see which is more secure and if I can tell if there is any more or less pressure on the yoke.

[mike20papa]

A savvey Mooney pilot who taxis up to a fuel farm and knows that a turbine powered helicopter is inbound to "Hot Fuel"?  Any of you had this experience?  I have waved these SOB's off - to no avail - confronted them at the pump & then filed a complaint with my local FISDO.  Beware - you & your fixed wing AC are just in their "high & mighty" rotor wing way.  Yes, I made them pay for a complete post incident inspection of my AC.   Now they are gone, bankrupt, reorganized & at another field.   Hot fueling limitations, restrictions, heli op's are something to be familiar with.  

[Joshua Blackh4t]

Interesting, I used the passenger belt at first until I almost forgot about it and tried to get in and nearly broke the controls. 

The E handbook doesn't mention it so I leave it. I try to leave the trim full forward, elevators seem happier pointing down. 

[mike20papa]

1 hour ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Someone who needs to buy a control lock?

It's a Mooney - not a Cessna.  

[A64Pilot]

I use gust locks, these to be exact, the one for the rudder I have to borrow the ladder used to refuel Cessna’s.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/airgizmouniversalgustlock.php?clickkey=8648430

You don’t want to lock the controls inside of the cockpit because in strong gusty conditions the flight controls are banging around and so is every push pull tube, wearing things out. With a gust lock you prevent flight control movement at the source and don’t put any loads into the system.

If it’s going to be really bad, you need to put spoilers on the wings, 2x4’s right on top of the main spar strapped down of course. Thankfully I have never had to do that.

Edited February 7, 2022 by A64Pilot

[cbarry]

I may be wrong in my assessment, but It appears that method results in an full up elevator which is asking for a rearward wind gust to put an excessive amount of torsional strain on the elevator, etc—not to mention an upward force on the aircraft from the same rearward wind.  With the short and mid bodies due to their neutral elevator resting position, I would think the main purpose of securing the controls in to prevent aileron damage.  With the long bodies the resting position of the elevator is in the downward position, and thus, again the ailerons are most vulnerable.  

[47U]

A couple replies since I was looking for a picture… somewhat redundant now.

Given that many vintage Mooney’s have the yoke shaft crack inspection AD, I’d be reluctant to apply constant pressure on the yoke/shaft as normal ops.  The rudder will be held stationary by the nose wheel and ailerons are somewhat stable through the interconnect springs to the rudder.  The elevators have the bungees in the tail.  I’m not sure what year/models they were abandoned, though.  Long bodies never had them?

If I were parked outside all of the time, I’d build some external down locks, like this one on the elevator.  It’d be another preflight checklist item that absolutely cannot be forgotten.  Does everyone do a ‘controls free’ check during the run-up?  

The same style down lock could be made for the ailerons.  

 

[0TreeLemur]

44 minutes ago, mike20papa said:

It's a Mooney - not a Cessna.  

I have a control lock for my C that I'm pretty sure would work for most or all Mooneys.   It has two hooks that go around the co-pilot rudder pedals (brakeless) and an extensible hollow square shaft that extends to the yoke where there are another two c-shaped rubber-coated recepticles that hold it all in place.   It came with the aircraft.  Don't remember the name of the manufacturer, but it works great.

[A64Pilot]

First pic is a original 1946 Cessna control lock, the forked end goes into the pedals and the T end clamps to the yoke, locking all three controls.

But you don’t want to lock controls from the inside, the second and third pics are the Air Gizmo’s gust locks that lock the flight control surface, they weigh almost nothing and are small and relatively inexpensive. My rudder has a lot of play and if winds are going be bad, I lock it as well. All three gusts locks don’t weigh a pound I’m sure.

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by A64Pilot

[47U]

5 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

they weigh almost nothing and are small and relatively inexpensive.

Looks like it would work on a wing without the tip fairing, too.  Similar installation as the elevator.

[Hank]

When necessary [not often], I just bungee the two yokes together. I found using the seatbelt per the Owners Manual to be difficult and time consuming. The bungee don't need to be really tight, just keep the yokes from turning. 

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

When necessary [not often], I just bungee the two yokes together. I found using the seatbelt per the Owners Manual to be difficult and time consuming. The bungee don't need to be really tight, just keep the yokes from turning. 

I use this technique too, but admit it provides no protection for the rudder.

In a forecast strong wind situation, it's hard to beat a hangar.

After reading about a zillion stories of crashes due to forgotten control locks, I'm generally adverse to control locks which would not be easily releasable from the cockpit.

[A64Pilot]

I’ve got a lot of experience with Ag plane maintenance, they often sit outside tied down. On the Thrush we have a gust lock built into the cockpit, it’s a V made from tubing and connected to the airframe, it’s spring loaded down, the bottom of the V has a steel pin welded into it, raise the V and the steel pin sticks into a hole in the control stick, it’s meant for short term like eating lunch etc, but some use it long term.

I’ve seen aircraft that use the V instead of the external locks we also supply have the Heim joints in the control systems worn out that were just a few years old and a few thousand hours, while the ones that used external gust locks show little to no wear.

The reason is the whole time the winds blowing, the flight controls are out there wiggling around and shaking the control tubes and of course wearing the bearings, day after day, it adds up, it’s like they were flying all of those tens of thousands of hours tied down in the wind.

The ones that used external gust locks, there in no movement and no loading of the control system, and of course only wear is from flying.

I’ve also seen bent control tubes from Thunderstorms etc, irresistible force, immovable object, somethings going to give. I’ve not seen damage from external gust locks, but I have seen some fall off, so ensure they are well secured, sometimes on the aileron as the end is thinner than the middle, the constant wiggling can work it loose to fall off of the back, but a bungee cord will hold it on and keep it from falling off.

This is mostly for those that keep airplanes tied down of course.

[Mooneymite]

Note to self:  don't park next to @A64Pilot, or anyone with this much experience with damaged controls.  

[A64Pilot]

20 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

 

After reading about a zillion stories of crashes due to forgotten control locks, I'm generally adverse to control locks which would not be easily releasable from the cockpit.

Even the ones releasable from the cockpit, most often can’t by the time you realize they are locked, however if you even look outside at the wing how can you miss a big red streamer? To say nothing of a control sweep? Seems of course people don’t, this video of a test flight of the turbine Caribou for instance, test pilot had the control locks engaged, in the cockpit.

I believe during the fly off the first B-17 was lost because it took off with the controls locked, and it’s rumored that crash is where checklists came from, The B-17 lost the fly off as of course there was no aircraft to fly, Congress illegally ordered some more built for testing, we almost went into WWII without the B-17 due to control locks.

By the way, both the Caribou and the B-17’s locks were cockpit locks.

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by A64Pilot

[A64Pilot]

35 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Note to self:  don't park next to @A64Pilot, or anyone with this much experience with damaged controls.  

For several years I was product support for a fleet of I believe 3,500 Ag planes operated in over 85 Countries that were produced since 1965, so I’ve seen quite a lot of what can happen to an Ag plane, and very often Ag planes are just pretty much airplanes.

Surprisingly the US has among the worlds most lax Maintenance systems, even what you would expect to be banana republics like Costa Rica, Honduras, Columbia etc are much more strict than the US, and very often repair procedures have to be Factory or otherwise approved, so I saw a lot of repairs.

[RobertGary1]

13 hours ago, 47U said:

A couple replies since I was looking for a picture… somewhat redundant now.

Given that many vintage Mooney’s have the yoke shaft crack inspection AD, I’d be reluctant to apply constant pressure on the yoke/shaft as normal ops.  The rudder will be held stationary by the nose wheel and ailerons are somewhat stable through the interconnect springs to the rudder.  The elevators have the bungees in the tail.  I’m not sure what year/models they were abandoned, though.  Long bodies never had them?

If I were parked outside all of the time, I’d build some external down locks, like this one on the elevator.  It’d be another preflight checklist item that absolutely cannot be forgotten.  Does everyone do a ‘controls free’ check during the run-up?  

The same style down lock could be made for the ailerons.  

 

Almost 50 years of wrapping the belt around the controls 100% of non flying time. If it causes damage it takes more than 50 years. 

[Derrickearly]

6 hours ago, 47U said:

Looks like it would work on a wing without the tip fairing, too.  Similar installation as the elevator.

I'll give these a try.  Thank you for the photos and recommendation.

[0TreeLemur]

I think the one in my aircraft was manufactured by York.   https://gustlock.com/

[FlyingDude]

31 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

en what you would expect to be banana republics like Costa Rica, Honduras, Columbia etc are much more strict than the US

I recall Italy had very strict requirements.  Time overhaul "suggestions" like 10 years for engine, 7 years for prop, 5 years for mags, were applied to all aircraft.  That, combined with 4x fuel prices, made GA a real elitist pastime.  Now, does all that strictness really yield to greater safety?  Or does it only appease general public's perceptions?  I just spent 10min on google and found that in US 8.1% of deadly accidents in 2020 are attributed to mechanical failure, whereas in EU, 9.1% of deadly accidents are attributed to engine failure.

But, in US it's 332 deaths / 205k aircraft: 1.62 promil.  in Europe it's 111deaths / 140k aircraft: 0.8 promil.  So, there IS a factor of 2.  It would be nice to figure out why.

111 people died in Europe in 2020 (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Air_safety_statistics_in_the_EU) I couldn't find the data for 2020, but the 2011-2015 cumulative data shows 9.1% deaths due to engine failure https://www.easa.europa.eu/downloads/18980/en page 4.  It only lists engine failuire and not mechanical failure in general.

332 people died in USA in 2020 (https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/accidents-ntsb/ntsb-finds-fatal-accidents-flight-activity-decrease-in-2020/#:~:text=The board noted that 332,100%2C000 flight hours in 2020.)   Of which, 8.1% mechanical failure (https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/air-safety-institute/accident-analysis/joseph-t-nall-report/nall-report-figure-view?category=all&year=2019&condition=all&report=true)

In Europe: 140000 GA aircraft (https://www.thecowboychannel.com/story/45418295/Europe-General-Aviation-Market-Share-,Size-2021-)

in USA: 205000 GA aircraft https://www.statista.com/statistics/183513/number-of-aircraft-in-the-united-states-since-1990/#:~:text=The number of aircraft in,in 2021%2C dropping to 5%2C791.

My coffee break is over...  I'm sure there are people more skilled in statistics that can dig more significant data to justify/debunk the theory of increased strictness in the name of safety. 

[PeteMc]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

however if you even look outside at the wing how can you miss a big red streamer?

Over the years, more than once I've walked over and stopped a pilot from starting up with the pitot tube cover on, chokes or tie-downs in place and the often luggage or bag left on the ramp. 

Often students or newbies, but once a high time twin owner that just got distracted by his pax.  (Grand kids??)  He said the second he saw me walking towards the plane motioning to cut the left engine he realized he had forgotten the pitot cover.  (And knowing the guy he would have barely started his acceleration down runway before aborting.)