Future Mooney parts supply

[pkofman]

Hi all. I fly a Mooney Bravo (98) m20t , my plane has been in annual for some time. Parts are the issue. What is the general thoughts on parts availability moving into the future for these planes . l I’m sure there are some 3rd party suppliers out there taking up the slack for authentic parts,  but my experience of late is starting to move me to think about selling and going elsewhere. ( btw I’ve owned 5 mooneys.J,K and M models and love them and I never thought about another manufacture of plane for me ). Mooney just is perfect for me , but the support and part supply is giving me pause and great concern. I bought this plane to fly it not to look at it sitting and waiting for something that might not arrive for months. I know many manufactures are having similar issues and covid is not helping. . Can someone with Mooney factory knowledge provide any insight into the Mooney support and future parts supply stream. Obviously I recognize there are the typical COVID anomalies at play which is not my question here. Thoughts. Pete

[hammdo]

OPP (Owner Produced Part), used, or FAA/PMA (like Lasar).

MooneySpace has done the OPP route for down/up lock blocks with @Sabremech.

Depending on what you need, those are the routes where the factory may not have available parts.

-Don

[Ragsf15e]

Mine was in annual 2 weeks ago and there were 2 Cirrus sitting in the back of the shop waiting on parts.  The IA said they have been there several weeks.  But you’re right, at least they have a path forward.

What do you need specifically, maybe someone here can help?

[anthonydesmet]

Probably need a little more specifics on what you’re looking for.  I’ve gone through two annuals and an engine overhaul and redesigned my interiors since January 2020 all during COVID with no parts supply issues.  I do notice a longer delay for avionics but nothing stopping me from executing.  But then again a lot might do to location of service.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, anthonydesmet said:

Probably need a little more specifics on what you’re looking for.  I’ve gone through two annuals and an engine overhaul and redesigned my interiors since January 2020 all during COVID with no parts supply issues.  I do notice a longer delay for avionics but nothing stopping me from executing.  But then again a lot might do to location of service.

It all depends on what you need though.  Engine and avionics are generally other companies (not Mooney).  I once needed a new trim tube and it could only be made by Mooney.  It’s the airframe specific stuff that could be worrisome.

[pkofman]

All I was able to solve my problem ( or actually the shop was able to solve it ) My issue which involved my exhaust . ( actually an engine part issue, not Mooney specifically-  ) it all  simply got me thinking about the future. I believe my repair is  ok now but im not feeling uber satisfied that this will not happen again. I had been looking for a acclaim-s for ages  but the  increasing cost of these machines over the past year has simply made me rethink.Im just not sure I would pay huge $$ for something that I cannot  get parts for in a realistic timeframe. Therein lies the dilemma. Life moves along , and things happen but I was hoping to move up to a newer mooney but I just dont know how to evaluate the risk of having it grounded and sitting round should I need a part  given my recent experience.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by pkofman

[hammdo]

Its probably safe to say there is some 'life limit' to what we can get -- not because the Mooney was not built to last but -- parts acquisition.  Some of us 'older model' Mooney owners have better prospects due to used parts available.  Like I mentioned, OPP or FAA/PMA options are still viable for us.  These new models, I don't know if there is enough supply in the chain should you need a specific part.  I feel for the OP.  It's a tough call -- even Beech is experiencing some issues with the factory saying no more ruddervator skins.  Beech, however, has a fantastic community for support.  We're not quite there yet, however, our used supply line is great along with OPP capabilities.

-Don

 

[carusoam]

20+ years of Mooney ownership…. A few ownership changes during that time….

Parts wearing out happens… and there is a source for those parts….

If you break something important….  It will be challenging to find a spare acclaim wing….

 

Sounds like an interesting question to take up with the Boss….

For small machine businesses…. The spare parts business is run differently then the whole machine business….  It is hard to judge what is going on  in the parts area based on pics of the outside of the business….

Don’t bend anything important…. 
 

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:44 PM, pkofman said:

All I was able to solve my problem ( or actually the shop was able to solve it ) My issue which involved my exhaust . ( actually an engine part issue, not Mooney specifically-  ) it all  simply got me thinking about the future. I believe my repair is  ok now but im not feeling uber satisfied that this will not happen again. I had been looking for a acclaim-s for ages  but the  increasing cost of these machines over the past year has simply made me rethink.Im just not sure I would pay huge $$ for something that I cannot  get parts for in a realistic timeframe. Therein lies the dilemma. Life moves along , and things happen but I was hoping to move up to a newer mooney but I just dont know how to evaluate the risk of having it grounded and sitting round should I need a part  given my recent experience.

 

I don't spend time worrying about things that haven't happened yet. To me, that's a lot of wasted time and effort. Mooney is still making parts and even if they stop, parts can be sourced on the used market and by resourceful people.

Since you're in Toronto, I hope you're using @M20Doc as your maintainer. He is resourceful enough that he'll find a solution when a problem presents. I'm confident enough that the Mooney network of owners, including Mooneyspace, and well-respected service centers will find ways to keep these airplanes flying a long time into the future.

[steingar]

I had to source a tach cable recently.  The only way to get a certificated one was through Mooney, and I really can't hold my breath that long.  We did get one, but the solution was far from ideal.  This is going to get worse.

Of course, it's nothing compared to the Bonanza owners, who have magnesium ruddervators that corrode if you look at them wrong and are made by exactly no one.

[pkofman]

3 minutes ago, steingar said:

I had to source a tach cable recently.  The only way to get a certificated one was through Mooney, and I really can't hold my breath that long.  We did get one, but the solution was far from ideal.  This is going to get worse.

Of course, it's nothing compared to the Bonanza owners, who have magnesium ruddervators that corrode if you look at them wrong and are made by exactly no one.

"Magnesium ruddervators" sound  ominous !..... thankfully, I dont need those for a Bravo..

[GeeBee]

Lot of Aero Commanders both twin and single still flying. Comanches, Ercoupes, Aeroncas, Luscombes, Navions, still flying. May not be easy, but it is doable.

 

[LANCECASPER]

57 minutes ago, steingar said:

I had to source a tach cable recently.  The only way to get a certificated one was through Mooney, and I really can't hold my breath that long.  We did get one, but the solution was far from ideal.  This is going to get worse.

Of course, it's nothing compared to the Bonanza owners, who have magnesium ruddervators that corrode if you look at them wrong and are made by exactly no one.

A tach cable is not a deal breaker. If the cable is 50 years old so is the gauge. For $648 (or $524 with my aircraftspuce discount) for a much more permanent solution I wouldn’t consider buying a cable for a 50 year old tach.

This will replace a mechanical tach and be much more reliable and more accurate.  It picks up the electrical pulse off of the tach, no cable required. https://www.iflyei.com/product/r-1-rpm-tachometer-instrument/ 

If you want to stay with the mechanical tach and just get a cable, Aircraft Spruce has an abundance of choices (or can make one to your specs): https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/tachcables.php?clickkey=4551

If your IA is insisting on a “certified” cable and not just an equivalent part, time for a new IA.

[kortopates]

Although exhaust components for most Mooneys aren't even Mooney parts, the fact is virtually any exhaust part is repairable. Although the repaired part may have nthing left of the original part. The point is most things can be repaired a whole lot cheaper than replaced with new parts from the manufacturer.

But in addition to the comments above about the Mooney factory. Even engine parts are really hard to come by right now. We're seeing delays in virtually everything from engine parts to air bag seat inflators all due to the pandemic right now. Its going to take some time for things to get back to near normal. And it doesn't really matter that your airframe is older, a new Ultra could also be waiting on an obscure part too. But probably what helps most is having an airframe that was  or is produced in large numbers. But most of us don't rank parts availability over the type of brand and model aircraft we want to enjoy flyings.

[Browncbr1]

I’m on week number 10 waiting for the case and crank machine shops to return my already owned parts!!!

[A64Pilot]

Original poster is right, parts are drying up, and often the path forward is difficult, just in landing gear, find me limit switches and a no-back spring and the panel mounted switch. Some may exist, but finding them is hell, and I feel sure there are no no-back springs, anywhere.

I too have considered selling my J because of parts,I love it, but unless things change parts are going to get bad.

Guy who pulled out his landing gear actuator is in for a difficult time, and how about landing gear actuators?

Thats just gear.

Only thing I can see saving us is someone with a PMA figures out there’s money to be made and covers us.

I don’t have any trouble getting parts for mr 1946 C-140, because Univair, Wag-Aero and others manufacture PMA parts for it, I hope they look towards Mooney’s soon.

 

I feel sure the reason there are no Bonanza magnesium ruddervators is because the demand isn’t really there yet, last place I worked had a giant hydro-press that could knock them out like popcorn, assuming the metal exists, maybe that’s the problem?

[Guest]

Parts supply for many airframes is slow, patience is required by all involved.  Our airplanes are rare, hand crafted in very small numbers.

I don’t generally speak to my customers issues on an open forum.  Peter is a client of mine, during annual inspection we found a crack in one of his exhaust pipes.  Bravo exhausts seem to be a little on the weak side.  The system was sent out for further inspection and repair.  

Most of the pipes were getting thin, they live in a brutal environment glowing red for their entire lives. Saving fuel shortens exhaust system life. The shop was able to save most of the holes in the pipes, by rebuilding with new material.

Mooney is not unique in the parts business.  We’ve waited months for tires, batteries, and daily consumables for the shop.  Cirrus took three months to produce a wing root fairing for an SR22.

Like I said patience and a sense of humour is required for this hobby.  Be thankful you’re not waiting on a $10,000 camshaft like someone I know!

Clarence

 

[201Steve]

5 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

I’m on week number 10 waiting for the case and crank machine shops to return my already owned parts!!!

Who has your case?

[pkofman]

5 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Parts supply for many airframes is slow, patience is required by all involved.  Our airplanes are rare, hand crafted in very small numbers.

I don’t generally speak to my customers issues on an open forum.  Peter is a client of mine, during annual inspection we found a crack in one of his exhaust pipes.  Bravo exhausts seem to be a little on the weak side.  The system was sent out for further inspection and repair.  

Most of the pipes were getting thin, they live in a brutal environment glowing red for their entire lives. Saving fuel shortens exhaust system life. The shop was able to save most of the holes in the pipes, by rebuilding with new material.

Mooney is not unique in the parts business.  We’ve waiter months for tires, batteries, and daily consumables for the shop.  Cirrus took three months to produce a wing root fairing for an SR22.

Like I said patience and a sense of humour is required for this hobby.  Be thankful you’re not waiting on a $10,000 camshaft like someone I know!

Clarence

 

And btw all.. Clarence  @M20Doc and his team are super awesome and incredibly knowledgeable ... If your ever passing though CYKF  up in  Canada stop in to his shop..... I admit I can be a bit impatient ( I just like to fly the plane ) but truthfully I understand the situation everyone is facing with parts etc..   I would say not only did the issue get resolved but Clarence and his team worked out a few options to resolve the problems at hand.. I will be happy to get the plane back. But here is the thing . This issue just brought the critical nature of the supply chain home for me. That is why I asked the original question.  I am looking for a new plane and hoping to be able to rationalize another Mooney. I really enjoy flying them and it all makes sense to me as long as it remains serviceable....    Thanks for everything Clarence

[Guest]

Even parts for newer Mooney airframes can be an issue.  Recently exhaust parts for an Ovation and an Acclaim have been a challenge.  I’m not sure what the answer is?

Clarence

[Browncbr1]

11 hours ago, 201Steve said:

Who has your case?

CSI 

[Jerry Pressley]

no shortage of parts for earlier Mooneys.  Have tons of them and really hate to haul them to the dump but wife says that is her only option when i go. 

[mike_elliott]

Consider selling the "lot" to Paul Maxwell Jerry.  It would have to  be wholesaled for sure, but that would put your wife's mind at ease not having to deal with it when you exit, and it will be fiscally better than hiring  two men and a truck to pay a dump to take it.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Jerry Pressley said:

no shortage of parts for earlier Mooneys.  Have tons of them and really hate to haul them to the dump but wife says that is her only option when i go. 

Where are you planning on going?  I still need that Comanche air filter box if you still have it?

Clarence

[steingar]

On 2/2/2022 at 10:31 AM, LANCECASPER said:

A tach cable is not a deal breaker. If the cable is 50 years old so is the gauge. For $648 (or $524 with my aircraftspuce discount) for a much more permanent solution I wouldn’t consider buying a cable for a 50 year old tach.

This will replace a mechanical tach and be much more reliable and more accurate.  It picks up the electrical pulse off of the tach, no cable required. https://www.iflyei.com/product/r-1-rpm-tachometer-instrument/ 

If you want to stay with the mechanical tach and just get a cable, Aircraft Spruce has an abundance of choices (or can make one to your specs): https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/tachcables.php?clickkey=4551

If your IA is insisting on a “certified” cable and not just an equivalent part, time for a new IA.

I never said it was a deal breaker, just far from ideal.  I have a certificated aircraft and prefer certificated parts.  Still, more and more of our parts are going to become owner produced or whatever, and sooner or later someone is going to make a smoking hole that will be blamed, rightly or wrongly, on the kludged part that came from no one sans paper trail. And then we'll all be in a world of hurt.  Peak Oil likely won't happen in my lifetime, but this could.  That said it's no difference with any other make expect perhaps Cirrus, and I for one don't want a plastic airplane.  I know a guy who landed his Cessna badly enough to need a new firewall, which is nothing more than a piece of aluminum with some holes drilled in it.  Many AMUs and two years later he had on from Cessna, a division of Textron who gives zero craps about anyone.  Then again, I suppose we can all console ourselves saying we got it better than the Bonanzas, also made by a  division of Textron so indifferent to our plight that they stopped making a part that corrodes if you look at it wrong, is on craploads of aircraft made by their division, and can be had nowhere else.  Right now the Textron corporation, which clearly has no craps to give about any of their customers, owns just about all the nonexperimental GA that isn't Cirrus, which itself is owned by the Sultan of Brunei.  So I hope I can be forgiven for being somewhat pessimistic about this aspect of GA.  Never was much of a Pollyanna. It was not of no reason that I bought a complex aircraft with the simples systems I could find, most of which were field repairable.