IFR training questions and advice.

[Mcstealth]

I have started working toward an instrument rating. What would be your plan on achieving the goal?

I have a fairly good deal money wise with my Brother-in-law as a newly minted CFII so I will be able to fly quite regularly for the month of January weather permitting at a good rate. 

Do I need the most expensive version of Foreflight like he wishes me to buy? Sheppard Air as a study sight. Is that okay? Is there a CB way to satisfy the technology side of things? 

Thanks in advance. 

David

 

[toto]

49 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

I have started working toward an instrument rating. What would be your plan on achieving the goal?

I have a fairly good deal money wise with my Brother-in-law as a newly minted CFII so I will be able to fly quite regularly for the month of January weather permitting at a good rate. 

Do I need the most expensive version of Foreflight like he wishes me to buy? Sheppard Air as a study sight. Is that okay? Is there a CB way to satisfy the technology side of things? 

Thanks in advance. 

David

 

The CB EFB option is FltPlan Go. Works on both iPad and Android, and has IFR enroute charts, approach plates, ADS-B traffic and weather etc, all for zero dollars. 

https://flttrack.fltplan.com/TutorialPDFs/FtPlanGo-iPad-Users-Manual.pdf

[Hank]

David, I'd buy the paper Low Enroute that covers your home field. It's a great training aid, spread on a table where you both can see it, point at things without zooming in/out accidentally, etc. 

Read, study then fly, just like when you worked on your PPL. Fill out the power settings chart and keep it with you in the cockpit, and use it until you know everything. Then keep it as a reference. 

EDIT:  I've read and heard that finding another student and sharing the instructor helps, you ride in the back while your partner flies, and you can watch what he does, see what the results are and hear what the CFII is saying. 

[carusoam]

1) brother in law needs practice as a CFII…

2) David needs training as an instrument student…

3) David borrows BIL’s skills, like a rented mule… 

4) Get power and configurations chart for all phases of IFR flight… for a Mooney, MAPA supplies a nice starting point.

5) try to complete the program in 10 days… like the speed shops do… (great way to overload the brain, like the real world can do…)

6) Know the 10 day program is not ideal….  It is low cost.

7) Follow up in days 11 - infinity flying in the system, and improving your skills…

8) fly with other IR pilots to see how they handle things differently…

9) seek weather and fly in a lot of IMC…

10) Get your favorite ipad app for charts… Make sure it has the approach plates and instrument charts….

11) Decide when you want to add the blue dot on your approach plates…

12) What plane are you using?  Does it have a WAAS gps?

13) Updating GPS databases can be a bit expensive…. You may only want one cycle… 28 days…

14) Save so much money… start looking for that elusive forever Mooney…

15) Consider picking up the commercial rating at the same time…. Some of the hours for one, can apply to the other…

16) Look as far into the future as you can… Is ATP coming on the horizon?

17) Airlines are planning on hiring many pilots over the next few years…

18) the FAA publishes an IR book…  it covers everything, and it is free to download… makes a great reference and second point of view…

 

PP thoughts only… not a CFI.

Best regards,

-a-

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, toto said:

The CB EFB option is FltPlan Go. Works on both iPad and Android, and has IFR enroute charts, approach plates, ADS-B traffic and weather etc, all for zero dollars. 

https://flttrack.fltplan.com/TutorialPDFs/FtPlanGo-iPad-Users-Manual.pdf

Or Avare, which has all the same capabilities.    If you're an android guy (like me), FltPlan Go has an annoying bug (feature, whatever) that if you tap the home button once it competely exits the program.   The tail of my lap belt kept hitting it and exiting the program, which is really bad if you need it there for a plate or chart.   So I switched to avare, which solves the problem with an "are you sure?" popup, which is apparently too complicated for FPG. 

[Skates97]

52 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Or Avare, which has all the same capabilities.    If you're an android guy (like me), FltPlan Go has an annoying bug (feature, whatever) that if you tap the home button once it competely exits the program.   The tail of my lap belt kept hitting it and exiting the program, which is really bad if you need it there for a plate or chart.   So I switched to avare, which solves the problem with an "are you sure?" popup, which is apparently too complicated for FPG. 

$130 right now through Jan 2nd will get you an 8.7" Samsung tablet from Costco which has GPS built in and will never overheat like an iPad. I have an 8.7" on the yoke and a 10" mounted on the right panel for whoever is in the right seat. 

Go the free route with Avare. For more functionality I like iFly GPS which is $130/year for the IFR version. 

[toto]

59 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Or Avare, which has all the same capabilities.    If you're an android guy (like me), FltPlan Go has an annoying bug (feature, whatever) that if you tap the home button once it competely exits the program.   The tail of my lap belt kept hitting it and exiting the program, which is really bad if you need it there for a plate or chart.   So I switched to avare, which solves the problem with an "are you sure?" popup, which is apparently too complicated for FPG. 

I like Avare a lot - I think it's great at what it does. But it doesn't have quite the capabilities that FltPlan Go has (like interfacing with ADS-B devices from Garmin and Stratus 3).

I also found FPG a bit unstable and crashy, but hey - free

 

[Mooney Dog]

3 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

Do I need the most expensive version of Foreflight

oh GOD no. You're never going to use PDC unless you're landing at DFW, IAH, HOU, other Class Bs. You can easily do all your IFR training with the basic $99 a year foreflight. The $199 Pro version is only if you want geo referencing. You're really only using foreflight for plates and charts. Not any of the extra features in training. 

 

You should read through the instrument flying handbook and instrument procedures handbook. You can find both here. https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/

Sheppard air is for the written test, but honestly you could get away with sporty's study budy. https://courses.sportys.com/training/portal/course/INSTRUMENT/testprep 

(i think you can still view everything for free just having to make an account, otherwise Sheppard is the absolute way to go) 

 

I find it easiest to start students off with a few flights, then make them go take their written test after showing me 3 90s on some test prep software. then jump into the training. I normally start with getting a lot of the XC time out of the way, once you get more and more comfortable with the IFR system, start really chaining close airports for approaches, throwing in holds, a few of the other maneuvers needed, etc. I save the long XC till near the end as i want my students to do it as their "i can do it all by myself" thing. Some CFII like to do the long XC first. There's really no harm either way.  

 

Whats your plane setup like? 6 pack? Glass? What kind of GPS do you have (if any)? 

 

[Marc_B]

Regarding the training element:

I took the King Schools ground course and studied the books below (cheap and available for free download below).  Then took the written exam.  Followed this with work with an CFII.  I thought that the PIC XC time would be the time limiting factor, but it's way easier to fly on your own to rack up time.  Much harder to get 40 hrs simulated or actual instrument time.  So identify at least 1 or 2 safety pilots to fly with early on unless you're doing an accelerated course that will give you those hours.  Here in Colorado scheduling check ride with DPE was a little over 2 months out; so I scheduled this shortly after I started instrument flight training.  So study/ground/written/fly/checkride.

Instrument Resources:

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/

Instrument Flying Handbook

Instrument Procedures Handbook

 

Pilot’s Cafe Quick Review

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f413aa64278dc3363aac3bf/t/5fbea4aa2dd96f5918cb30e4/1606329515677/Pilots+Cafe.pdf

 

Sheppard Air

https://www.sheppardair.com/instrument-rating.htm

[Mooney Dog]

6 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

Pilot’s Cafe Quick Review

 

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f413aa64278dc3363aac3bf/t/5fbea4aa2dd96f5918cb30e4/1606329515677/Pilots+Cafe.pdf

Id say please link to this for the Pilots Cafe. You dont have to pay for it, but it is someone's time making this a free resource for all of us to use. 

https://www.pilotscafe.com/IFR-quick-review-guide/

[EricJ]

21 minutes ago, toto said:

I like Avare a lot - I think it's great at what it does. But it doesn't have quite the capabilities that FltPlan Go has (like interfacing with ADS-B devices from Garmin and Stratus 3).

I also found FPG a bit unstable and crashy, but hey - free

 

I would probably kinda prefer to use FPG, and I started out with it and liked it, but the surprise exits to nothing were not acceptable and dangerous and kept recurring.   Avare fixed that problem and has been a fine substitute for me, and works great with my stratux for ADS-B.   It's great to have multiple free capable EFBs to choose from.

I still keep FPG loaded on one of my tablets and updated as a software backup.

 

[McMooney]

4 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

I have started working toward an instrument rating. What would be your plan on achieving the goal?

I have a fairly good deal money wise with my Brother-in-law as a newly minted CFII so I will be able to fly quite regularly for the month of January weather permitting at a good rate. 

Do I need the most expensive version of Foreflight like he wishes me to buy? Sheppard Air as a study sight. Is that okay? Is there a CB way to satisfy the technology side of things? 

Thanks in advance. 

David

 

Try Garmin Pilot, for the approx same level Gp if i remember correctly is like 50$ cheaper.

both will have everything you need for ifr flight.  geo referenced  plates and taxi are worth it

[tmo]

For me it was Sheppard for the written; for EFBs I started off with FltPlan Go on an Ipad, but later added Avare on an Android phone, because I liked the moving map better, kept FltPlanGo for the charts, because the iPad is slightly larger than the phone. Also, to me, focusing on the IR and just the IR was the key to get it all done. Take the two weeks you'll need off work, don't commit to any friends and family stuff during that time. Do ground prep and flying in the AM, stop somewhere for lunch, fly a bit more, debrief and study in the PM. Take a day off from flying if you feel you need to, I did, I believe it helped.

At the end of the two weeks your head will hurt, your arm will be sore, and you'll have an IR, so you'll be able to get in the plane with your brother-in-law and fly for fun and experience. But for getting the rating, stack things in your favor by keeping them as simple as possible.

The two are separate processes, IMO. As with the PPL, the IR is just another license to learn.

[Jerry 5TJ]

11 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

Sheppard Air as a study sight. Is that okay?

Sheppard SW is great for reviewing the material and preparing you to do well on the knowledge test.  I like their courses and have used Sheppard for my own knowledge tests.  Many of my students have benefited from the Sheppard preparation.  
But it is NOT a stand-alone study package.  
The King or Sportys or other video courses (usually 20-25 hours long) are good for learning the basics. 

[Mcstealth]

Thank you guys, and gals. Exactly what I was looking for. Appreciate it. 

[Hank]

8 hours ago, McMooney said:

Try Garmin Pilot, for the approx same level Gp if i remember correctly is like 50$ cheaper.

both will have everything you need for ifr flight.  geo referenced  plates and taxi are worth it

Avare has these features, and it's FREE. No matter which EFB you choose, there will be a learning curve. When I land somewhere,  you the time I have a chance to look, Avare has already changed to the airport diagram and is showing my location on it.

I'm a big Samsung fan, and just don't understand apple's refusal to put a GPS chip in everything that they make. Guess it's because there are enough kool-aid drinkers to pay $600+ to get one. Buy the inexpensive Samsung tablet, load on free Avare, and make it your dedicated flying tool. Just remember to set it up for your email, too.

[Mcstealth]

11 hours ago, Skates97 said:

$130 right now through Jan 2nd will get you an 8.7" Samsung tablet from Costco which has GPS built in and will never overheat like an iPad. I have an 8.7" on the yoke and a 10" mounted on the right panel for whoever is in the right seat. 

Go the free route with Avare. For more functionality I like iFly GPS which is $130/year for the IFR version. 

What amount of storage requirements do you consider minimum for said tablets?

[Scott Dennstaedt, PhD]

14 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

I have started working toward an instrument rating. What would be your plan on achieving the goal?

You will quickly discover that weather becomes the biggest physical factor limiting your IFR flying activity. I have been working with instrument students teaching them weather for about 20 years now and at the end of the day, making good preflight and in flight decisions involves having a solid foundation in weather. 

[Mcstealth]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Avare has these features, and it's FREE. No matter which EFB you choose, there will be a learning curve. When I land somewhere,  you the time I have a chance to look, Avare has already changed to the airport diagram and is showing my location on it.

I'm a big Samsung fan, and just don't understand apple's refusal to put a GPS chip in everything that they make. Guess it's because there are enough kool-aid drinkers to pay $600+ to get one. Buy the inexpensive Samsung tablet, load on free Avare, and make it your dedicated flying tool. Just remember to set it up for your email, too.

My brain likes functioning with Android also. 

How much storage, size tablet? Etc,etc?

[Mooney Dog]

1 minute ago, Mcstealth said:

How much storage, size tablet? Etc,etc?

General for any EFB, 64GB will be enough to save all plates and charts for the entire US. 128 is goo for having extra space to do other things.

 

I cant speak about the android tablets, but foreflight on the ipad makes things really easy. I have never used garmin pilot (it also has android) but i hear good things about it too.

 

I used to have Avare on my phone to play around with when i was flying around, and never found it to be... great. Its a "good enough" thing to me, but its also totally free so YMMV 

[Mcstealth]

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

11) Decide when you want to add the blue dot on your approach plates…

12) What plane are you using?  Does it have a WAAS ?

16) Look as far into the future as you can… Is ATP coming on the horizon?

11.  The blue dot is geo reference on the ground?

12. I have access to a 180 Piper and a 172 that both have 430W

16. CFII is the goal

[toto]

14 minutes ago, Mooney Dog said:

I have never used garmin pilot (it also has android) but i hear good things about it too.

After using GP on Android for several years, I would recommend against it. Garmin rolls out new features aggressively for iPad, and feature parity on Android is not a thing. Android seems to be very low priority for GP, and GP on Android is still missing some key features introduced for iPad over the past couple of years. (Note that GP on Android is exactly the same price as iPad - you just get fewer features and slower updates.)

[EricJ]

51 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

My brain likes functioning with Android also. 

How much storage, size tablet? Etc,etc?

Tablet size is personal preference and may depend on how you want to use it.    Personally, I fly with two tablets, a smaller one that stays attached to the yoke that I use for approach plates, etc., and map when it's not doing those functions, and a larger one (10.5", I think) that stays on my kneepad that always has the map/traffic or whatever else I need to do.   The redundancy is good and I can have a plate and a map up simultaneously, or just different views of whatever it is I'm doing.    The android tablets are not that expensive and avare/FPG is free, so I have another tablet (an older one retired from yoke duty) that I keep up-to-date with charts, etc., for passengers to use to follow along and help monitor traffic.   I also keep an old Galaxy S4 phone in my flight bag that has avare loaded and kept current as well.    Why not? 

 

[Skates97]

2 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

What amount of storage requirements do you consider minimum for said tablets?

The one Costco has on sale right now is 32GB internal which is enough to run an EFB. You can add a micro SD card for extra storage. I'm not sure how Avare plays with data on an SD card, but when I had the iFly GPS data on the SD card I had trouble with it updating so went back to having it on the internal storage.

1 hour ago, Mcstealth said:

My brain likes functioning with Android also. 

How much storage, size tablet? Etc,etc?

I just pulled up iFly to see the storage requirement. If I have the entire US selected it is 9.2 GB of data. For the SW (CA, NV, UT, ID, AZ, NM, CO) where I typically fly it is 2.7 GB. @Hank can probably tell you how big the Avare data files are, I suspect they are similar in size.

[McMooney]

3 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

What amount of storage requirements do you consider minimum for said tablets?

I get 256Gb apple and android,  primarily due to my being lazy and not wanting to monitor what's downloaded.

I just set the apps to download EVERYTHING, weather, maps, terrain,  helicopter maps etc....

also, while flying is the primary usage, i now tend to keep a few games/movies just to pass time.

If you can, get one with cell service,  never know when you'll drop your phone off a plane at an airport and end up stuck. I've done this hehe