Am I underinsured?

[RobertGary1]

Just renewed and slightly raised hull to $65K. Seeing posts around here I'm wondering if values have gone up such that I'm underinsured?

76 F

electric gear

100 SFReman A3B6

Tank reseal last year from Advanced

(2) GI-275, GNX-375, GNC-255a, KX-155, PMA8000BT, EDM-700 w/fuel flow, AV-17 annunciator, 406 ELT,  factory Britannia electric autopilot

Interior leather cloth inlay 7/10

Paint 4/10

 

-Robert

[201er]

44 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I'm wondering if values have gone up such that I'm underinsured?

Yes.

Anyone that bought an airplane before the last few years in inevitably and unknowingly underinsured because of how rapidly prices changed. Simple fact is, if your plane got flipped in that tornado or something else happens, you probably won’t be able to replace it for what you paid a few years back.

[EricJ]

If you're fine with that payout in the event of a total loss and the increased likelihood of the insurer declaring a total loss rather than repair after damage, then, no.   Otherwise, yes. 

 

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

If you're fine with that payout in the event of a total loss and the increased likelihood of the insurer declaring a total loss rather than repair after damage, then, no.   Otherwise, yes. 

 

Implicit in the question is if I could exchange that payout for a like aircraft.

[RobertGary1]

20 minutes ago, 201er said:

Yes.

Anyone that bought an airplane before the last few years in inevitably and unknowingly underinsured because of how rapidly prices changed. Simple fact is, if your plane got flipped in that tornado or something else happens, you probably won’t be able to replace it for what you paid a few years back.

Any guesses on the "right" value? My insurance guy just tells me some vague guidelines, although he said the underwriter would agree to up to $100k without further documentation.

-Robert

[kris_adams]

I'll throw out a number based on what I've seen listed and some sales I've heard about.  I'd probably insure 93v for closer to 90k in today's market.

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

I'd be looking for $100,000 or maybe more.  It won't cost much more, either.

[ArtVandelay]

Implicit in the question is if I could exchange that payout for a like aircraft.

I think it’s more complicated than that.

Assume a retail price for your plane in today’s market is $100,000.
A. You insure for $100,000 and have major damage. Now the plane gets fix (but only after major hassle of such a repair), now your plane is worth maybe $80,000 because it has damaged history. You’ve lost $20,000 in value.
B. You insure for $80,000. Now you take your insurance money, no hassle of a repair, no waiting for it to be repaired (may take a year with such damage), just take the money and buy a new $100,000 plane. It costs you $20,000, but you would have lost $20,000 anyway.

[RobertGary1]

7 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

I'd be looking for $100,000 or maybe more.  It won't cost much more, either.

Oh, wow. I believe the rate is linear? I'm paying $1400 for the $65K in hull alone. To raise that to $100K would that mean about an extra $600/yr?

 

-Robert

[Parker_Woodruff]

26 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Oh, wow. I believe the rate is linear? I'm paying $1400 for the $65K in hull alone. To raise that to $100K would that mean about an extra $600/yr?

 

-Robert

Quite often there is a hull rate break at $75K and/or $100K.  It will depend on your carrier.

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

I'd be looking for $100,000 or maybe more.  It won't cost much more, either.

 

48 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Quite often there is a hull rate break at $75K and/or $100K.  It will depend on your carrier.

I would recommend everyone to bounce things off Parker. If he can do better for you he will and if he can't he will tell you to stay with whoever you have. He will also let you know where the breaks are and make recommendations. I had him quote me I think two years in a row and recommend I stay with my current provider until my renewal in 2020 when he was able to get me a better deal, enough of a change to switch and I renewed with him in 2021.

I can't say enough about how nice it is to work with him, he's an honest, straight shooter that has your best interest in mind.

[Browncbr1]

Mine has been at 80k, but I’m about to increase to 120k.  The extra 40k is about 400 more premium.  

[carusoam]

Two parts to this question…

1) Parker is the resource for the current insurance market…

2) Find Jimmy to get details on valuing your plane properly… @jgarrison  he has a recent thread around here for market valuations…

There are pain points for both over and under estimating the value of the plane….

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

Oh, wow. I believe the rate is linear? I'm paying $1400 for the $65K in hull alone. To raise that to $100K would that mean about an extra $600/yr?

I bumped the insured value of my C from 65 to 75k, for an additional $14/year.

Only your agent can give you accurate rates, and as always, assuming is dangerous. 

[RobertGary1]

16 minutes ago, Hank said:

I bumped the insured value of my C from 65 to 75k, for an additional $14/year.

Only your agent can give you accurate rates, and as always, assuming is dangerous. 

During the renewal I already bumped it from 60 to 65 for about an extra $200/yr.

[LANCECASPER]

Your liability should be the same, right? It's just your hull value going up.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I think it’s more complicated than that.

Assume a retail price for your plane in today’s market is $100,000.
A. You insure for $100,000 and have major damage. Now the plane gets fix (but only after major hassle of such a repair), now your plane is worth maybe $80,000 because it has damaged history. You’ve lost $20,000 in value.
B. You insure for $80,000. Now you take your insurance money, no hassle of a repair, no waiting for it to be repaired (may take a year with such damage), just take the money and buy a new $100,000 plane. It costs you $20,000, but you would have lost $20,000 anyway.

Not sure I understand the logic.

If you insure for $100,000 and have a total loss, you get $100,000 to buy another airplane.

If you insure for $80,000 and have a total loss, you get $80,000 and still have to come up with $20,000 to buy another airplane.

I can't imagine if they decide to repair the airplane and it is repaired properly that you would lose $20,000 in value. 

[ArtVandelay]

Not sure I understand the logic.
If you insure for $100,000 and have a total loss, you get $100,000 to buy another airplane.
If you insure for $80,000 and have a total loss, you get $80,000 and still have to come up with $20,000 to buy another airplane.
I can't imagine if they decide to repair the airplane and it is repaired properly that you would lose $20,000 in value. 

Yes, if you have a total loss…but if you have a major incident it’s going to cost you resale value. A belly landing that’s relatively minor incident will cost you resale value.

[LANCECASPER]

9 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Yes, if you have a total loss…but if you have a major incident it’s going to cost you resale value. A belly landing that’s relatively minor incident will cost you resale value.

There are some people that are totally close-minded to any damage history. It's hard  to find an older airplane that doesn't have some damage history. I think it all depends on how well it's documented in the logs and whether it's done by a well known shop. It wouldn't bother me much to buy an airplane with a new prop, recent tear down inspection (and replace as necessary) and a new belly pan. I'd rather have that than an older low time uncertain engine and a prop that hasn't been resealed in a long time. Mooneys don't sustain a lot of damage with gear-ups, not that the tear down and prop and belly pan are cheap by any means.

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

Your liability should be the same, right? It's just your hull value going up.

I've only shared hull premium so the numbers I'm sharing are exclusive to hull.

 

-robert

[RobertGary1]

39 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

There are some people that are totally close-minded to any damage history. It's hard  to find an older airplane that doesn't have some damage history. I think it all depends on how well it's documented in the logs and whether it's done by a well known shop. It wouldn't bother me much to buy an airplane with a new prop, recent tear down inspection (and replace as necessary) and a new belly pan. I'd rather have that than an older low time uncertain engine and a prop that hasn't been resealed in a long time. Mooneys don't sustain a lot of damage with gear-ups, not that the tear down and prop and belly pan are cheap by any means.

I don't tend to trade around. I've had this plane for well over 20 years so I anticipate my widow will sell it someday. But if I get hit with a truck again I'd hate to be out of a plane, not able to buy what I had.

 

-Robert

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, Skates97 said:

 

I would recommend everyone to bounce things off Parker. If he can do better for you he will and if he can't he will tell you to stay with whoever you have. He will also let you know where the breaks are and make recommendations. I had him quote me I think two years in a row and recommend I stay with my current provider until my renewal in 2020 when he was able to get me a better deal, enough of a change to switch and I renewed with him in 2021.

I can't say enough about how nice it is to work with him, he's an honest, straight shooter that has your best interest in mind.

I have a couple aviation policies that I've bounced off him because I do respect him. It would be good to consolidate them but that doesn't seem likely. I actually have another aircraft I tried to ensure with him but he doesn't have an underwriter that writes those policies.

-Robert

[Mooney Dog]

5 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Just renewed and slightly raised hull to $65K. Seeing posts around here I'm wondering if values have gone up such that I'm underinsured?

76 F

-Robert

For reference im at 90k for a 375/255 nav/com/gps and 2 g5s, egt/cht monitors, and 8/10 paint and 4/10 interior 

[RobertGary1]

Wow who knew airplanes have gotten so expensive! I also need to consider that if my plane were totaled and I found a perfect exact match for sale I’d also have to pay the state of California almost 10% the value in tax.  

[LANCECASPER]

8 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Just renewed and slightly raised hull to $65K. Seeing posts around here I'm wondering if values have gone up such that I'm underinsured?

76 F

electric gear

100 SFReman A3B6

Tank reseal last year from Advanced

(2) GI-275, GNX-375, GNC-255a, KX-155, PMA8000BT, EDM-700 w/fuel flow, AV-17 annunciator, 406 ELT,  factory Britannia electric autopilot

Interior leather cloth inlay 7/10

Paint 4/10

 

-Robert

I count over $75000 spent plus what the prop and airframe is worth. We don’t get back what we put in usually but things add up fast.