Fatal crash in California on July 15

[Eduleo]

https://kymkemp.com/2021/07/15/airplane-crash-at-dinsmore-airport-fire-spreading/?fbclid=IwAR0RkNmxZywMy_d7CGVuFb33lIB-YNaoWLDCKSHD5POg8XYdBnx-7vDOnPg

This looks like a worst case scenario.

A J with passengers crashed after departure from Dinsmore Airport (D63), California, and caught fire. Very sad for all involved.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Eduleo

[carusoam]

 

The pics don’t show a single recognizable detail…

plane is upside down..

A retractable nose wheel, with gear doors open… blurry part of the pic…

Some steel tubing survived the heat… but doesn’t look very familiar…

 

Letting @mike_elliott know of a Mooney loss…

Prayers and best regards,

-a-

[Skates97]

He's a hangar neighbor, I'm told there were four in the plane. Another hangar neighbor has been sending my wife and I updates and articles/links. 

[Skates97]

It is a Mooney. 

 

N4474H

[carusoam]

Mooney M20J…  (AP/NTSB)

https://apnews.com/article/business-california-9c0b88296b081a840b94d8b77e4b3639

According to this AP news story.

 

Tail number provided by Richard…

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N4474H

 

-a-

[KSMooniac]

How awful! I hate reading stories like this. At least it must've been very quick.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[Skates97]

This one is really hard. I should be grieving, he was a friend that I spent a lot of time with, but I am more upset. There is a pretty close group of pilots there in the southeast hangars at KFUL and Henry was a part of that group. While he was a really nice guy and a friend, I would not fly with him nor want anyone to fly with him. On a number of occasions I saw him load up enough people and bags to be over gross. Back in April we were visiting with a friend two hangars down from Henry and watched him and three other good size guys along with bags and full fuel climb in his Mooney for a flight to Williams, AZ. My friend and I were both worried he wasn't going to make it off the ground.

Both Henry and one of the passengers after that flight talked about how it took them forever to climb out of Williams at only about 50' a minute. My friend asked Henry if he had done a WB and he said no, at which point my friend in a not so gentle manner (when you've been friends for years sometimes it is the direct approach) told Henry he can't just ignore the laws of physics.

They are still trying to figure out how many people were on the plane today. It is believed that there were four. There's another guy there at the airport that was supposed to go with Henry today but there weren't enough seats in the plane, all the seats were full. It's a long flight back to KFUL, and if he had four in the plane plus full fuel he was likely over gross. Add in a warm afternoon, 2,500' runway, trees not far from the end....

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

This one is really hard. I should be grieving, he was a friend that I spent a lot of time with, but I am more upset. There is a pretty close group of pilots there in the southeast hangars at KFUL and Henry was a part of that group. While he was a really nice guy and a friend, I would not fly with him nor want anyone to fly with him. On a number of occasions I saw him load up enough people and bags to be over gross. Back in April we were visiting with a friend two hangars down from Henry and watched him and three other good size guys along with bags and full fuel climb in his Mooney for a flight to Williams, AZ. My friend and I were both worried he wasn't going to make it off the ground.

Both Henry and one of the passengers after that flight talked about how it took them forever to climb out of Williams at only about 50' a minute. My friend asked Henry if he had done a WB and he said no, at which point my friend in a not so gentle manner (when you've been friends for years sometimes it is the direct approach) told Henry he can't just ignore the laws of physics.

They are still trying to figure out how many people were on the plane today. It is believed that there were four. There's another guy there at the airport that was supposed to go with Henry today but there weren't enough seats in the plane, all the seats were full. It's a long flight back to KFUL, and if he had four in the plane plus full fuel he was likely over gross. Add in a warm afternoon, 2,500' runway, trees not far from the end....

I’m so sad for the families left behind.

Henry is well known at FUL.  While this is tragic, it is no surprise.

[mike_elliott]

Richard, Once we know the identities of the crash victims, if you can get me the surviving spouse info, I will undertake the very sad duty.

 

[Skates97]

11 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Richard, Once we know the identities of the crash victims, if you can get me the surviving spouse info, I will undertake the very sad duty.

 

I will. 

[mooneyflyer]

A dear friend of ours. Never a negative thought in his soul. Always cheerful and upbeat. Lifted everyone around him. We will miss him.

Edited July 16, 2021 by mooneyflyer

[Skates97]

6 minutes ago, mooneyflyer said:

A dear friend of ours. Never a negative thought in his soul. Always cheerful and upbeat. Lifted everyone around him. We wil miss him.

Yes, if you couldn't smile around Henry you probably didn't smile much at all, and it didn't matter where you were flying for lunch he would say "They have the best xxxxx you have ever had." Fill in the blank with just about anything off the menu.

Henry and a friend at the last Christmas hangar party.

A group of us at lunch at KSEE the day after Thanksgiving last year. In this case I think it was the best club sandwich you ever had by looking at his plate. 

[ReconMax]

Were there any survivors? I saw a reference on another site that indicated there might have been at least one. It seems unlikely looking at the pictures though. I guess the details will emerge soon.

What a tragic awful event for everyone involved. 

[kortopates]

i met Henry many years ago at Vintage fly in back in the day when Phil was organizing them. I recall he was based at Long Beach then. Everything Rich says above was spot on - sadly. Let’s just say Henry was making the news decades ago.


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[Hank]

12 hours ago, Skates97 said:

This one is really hard. I should be grieving, he was a friend that I spent a lot of time with, but I am more upset. There is a pretty close group of pilots there in the southeast hangars at KFUL and Henry was a part of that group. While he was a really nice guy and a friend, I would not fly with him nor want anyone to fly with him. On a number of occasions I saw him load up enough people and bags to be over gross. Back in April we were visiting with a friend two hangars down from Henry and watched him and three other good size guys along with bags and full fuel climb in his Mooney for a flight to Williams, AZ. My friend and I were both worried he wasn't going to make it off the ground.

Both Henry and one of the passengers after that flight talked about how it took them forever to climb out of Williams at only about 50' a minute. My friend asked Henry if he had done a WB and he said no, at which point my friend in a not so gentle manner (when you've been friends for years sometimes it is the direct approach) told Henry he can't just ignore the laws of physics.

They are still trying to figure out how many people were on the plane today. It is believed that there were four. There's another guy there at the airport that was supposed to go with Henry today but there weren't enough seats in the plane, all the seats were full. It's a long flight back to KFUL, and if he had four in the plane plus full fuel he was likely over gross. Add in a warm afternoon, 2,500' runway, trees not far from the end....

 

10 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

Henry is well known at FUL.  While this is tragic, it is no surprise.

 

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

i met Henry many years ago at Vintage fly in back in the day when Phil was organizing them. I recall he was based at Long Beach then. Everything Rich says above was spot on - sadly. Let’s just say Henry was making the news decades ago.

Things like this are just wrong on so many levels . . . . . Scratch one pilot, 1-3 passengers and a good airplane. "They are still trying to figure out how many people were on the plane" just means the impact and fire were severe; I'm quite glad that I'm not the one sorting and counting fragments. God bless those poor souls!

[steingar]

Sad indeed, but this stuff happens and will likely keep happening.  This avocation attracts those who's egos respect no authority, not even Ma Nature.  RIP to all involved.  Condolences to those who knew the pilots.

[RobertGary1]

18 minutes ago, steingar said:

Sad indeed, but this stuff happens and will likely keep happening.  This avocation attracts those who's egos respect no authority, not even Ma Nature.  RIP to all involved.  Condolences to those who knew the pilots.

Well let’s not publicly convict the man until we have some facts. 

[drb930]

Does this model Mooney require some flaps on takeoff?

Wouldn't they have burned off most of their fuel getting there?

Has anyone done a W&B with what would have been the remaining fuel?

[ZuluZulu]

27 minutes ago, drb930 said:

Does this model Mooney require some flaps on takeoff?

Wouldn't they have burned off most of their fuel getting there?

Has anyone done a W&B with what would have been the remaining fuel?

Require?  No.  The POH recommends takeoff flaps, which corresponds to 15º.  But it will take off without flaps and a certain former factory test pilot recommends it if the runway is long enough.

See: https://web.archive.org/web/20051102020648/http://www.mooneypilots.com:80/M20J Evaluation/M20J_evaluation_report.html#expand

"Setting flaps for takeoff is your decision and option. The book recommends 15 degrees (the takeoff setting), but if the runway is longer than 3000 feet, consider not using flaps for takeoff. The takeoff distance might be a few hundred feet longer without flaps, but I think you'll find the airplane has much better liftoff and initial climb characteristics without flaps. My personal technique is not to use them if the runway length isn't critical."

(P.S. Why can't we create blockquotes anymore?)

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, drb930 said:

Does this model Mooney require some flaps on takeoff?

Wouldn't they have burned off most of their fuel getting there?

Has anyone done a W&B with what would have been the remaining fuel?

 

56 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

The lead story says they had just taken off.  You’re right that they probably burned off most of their their fuel getting there so they had probably refueled

  

I did more digging, there is no fuel there so they would not have had much left after a 4 hour flight, unless he had full tanks (64 gal) when he left KFUL and then depending on how he ran it he might have had 20-30 left. There was a stop at Perris to pick up a passenger on the way, the Flight aware track shows it as a continuous flight but if you look at the track log you will see he spent about 12 minutes on the ground at Perris. 

There were four on board, they have identified them.

https://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/eureka-local-news/multiple-fatalities-occur-in-plane-crash-at-dinsmore-airport

[DCarlton]

Tangent...  I consider myself a cautious and safety conscious pilot particularly when I carry passengers.  I'm technically savvy if I do say so myself.  :/ My aircraft has been very well maintained.  Yet and read these reports and sometimes feel like selling and getting out while I still can.  I don't worry about myself so much but I'm exceedingly troubled by the prospect of hurting anyone else at this point in life.  Couple this with recurring physicals, insurance, tie down fees, annual inspections, unexpected maintenance, fight reviews, currency requirements and sometimes... flying just doesn't seem to make sense now that I no longer have a work-related mission for the airplane.  Anyone else have similar thoughts?  What drives you to continue other than the fact that your license was so hard to obtain in the first place that you just don't want to give it up?  I think there have beens studies done why pilots give up flying when they're at their best after accumulating a lifetime of experience.  Thoughts?   

Edited July 16, 2021 by DCarlton

[RobertGary1]

27 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Tangent...  I consider myself a cautious and safety conscious pilot particularly when I carry passengers.  I'm technically savvy if I do say so myself.  :/ My aircraft has been very well maintained.  Yet and read these reports and sometimes feel like selling and getting out while I still can.  I don't worry about myself so much but I'm exceedingly troubled by the prospect of hurting anyone else at this point in life.  Couple this with recurring physicals, insurance, tie down fees, annual inspections, unexpected maintenance, fight reviews, currency requirements and sometimes... flying just doesn't seem to make sense now that I no longer have a work-related mission for the airplane.  Anyone else have similar thoughts?  What drives you to continue other than the fact that your license was so hard to obtain in the first place that you just don't want to give it up?  I think there have beens studies done why pilots give up flying when they're at their best after accumulating a lifetime of experience.  Thoughts?   

Stock google image...

 

[Skates97]

23 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Tangent...  I consider myself a cautious and safety conscious pilot particularly when I carry passengers.  I'm technically savvy if I do say so myself.  :/ My aircraft has been very well maintained.  Yet and read these reports and sometimes feel like selling and getting out while I still can.  I don't worry about myself so much but I'm exceedingly troubled by the prospect of hurting anyone else at this point in life.  Couple this with recurring physicals, insurance, tie down fees, annual inspections, unexpected maintenance, fight reviews, currency requirements and sometimes... flying just doesn't seem to make sense now that I no longer have a work-related mission for the airplane.  Anyone else have similar thoughts?  What drives you to continue other than the fact that your license was so hard to obtain in the first place that you just don't want to give it up?  I think there have beens studies done why pilots give up flying when they're at their best after accumulating a lifetime of experience.  Thoughts?   

I have often heard it said that if you fly long enough you will know someone who dies in an airplane accident. I have known of people, even witnessed one, but Henry was the first I knew, and it is a tough one. I have a really good friend who used to fly a 210, he gave it up years ago. I asked him once why and he said he knew too many pilots that died in accidents.

For myself, I will be flying until age or medical reasons cause me to give it up. I fly because I love to fly. I have wanted to fly as long as I have a memory of anything. There are risks involved, and I do my best to mitigate those risks through maintenance, planning, training, etc... 

Like I said, this one is difficult, but I will be at the airport tomorrow morning, drive past his hangar after passing through the gate, maybe his car will still be there, and go for a flight. I just changed the oil in preparation to fly to Oshkosh so I want to take a short post-maintenance flight on my own before my CFII shows up for my IFR lesson tomorrow.

[TGreen]

45 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Tangent...  I consider myself a cautious and safety conscious pilot particularly when I carry passengers.  I'm technically savvy if I do say so myself.  :/ My aircraft has been very well maintained.  Yet and read these reports and sometimes feel like selling and getting out while I still can.  I don't worry about myself so much but I'm exceedingly troubled by the prospect of hurting anyone else at this point in life.  Couple this with recurring physicals, insurance, tie down fees, annual inspections, unexpected maintenance, fight reviews, currency requirements and sometimes... flying just doesn't seem to make sense now that I no longer have a work-related mission for the airplane.  Anyone else have similar thoughts?  What drives you to continue other than the fact that your license was so hard to obtain in the first place that you just don't want to give it up?  I think there have beens studies done why pilots give up flying when they're at their best after accumulating a lifetime of experience.  Thoughts?   

I continue to own and fly - notwithstanding those considerations - because I still enjoy it. It is not cost-free, hassle-free, or risk-free. But it is fun and there is nothing like it.

[steingar]

7 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Well let’s not publicly convict the man until we have some facts. 

Here are a few facts according to the folks on this site. Full fuel, 3 pax, high DA, and short strip with a pilot not in the habit of second guessing himself. What really bothers me is this isn’t anything new.