Landing Height System for Mooney

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, exM20K said:

Question for @LANCECASPER @donkaye and the other long body LHS owners: 

I purchased a system and will have it installed at annual this month.  My landing technique is 70-75 KIAS Vref, cross the threshold at 1.2 Vso, roll in up trim and roll out throttle in the flare.  How do you make use of the altitude callouts in landing? Day/night differences?

looking forward to experimenting.

-dan

You've got a lot of Mooney landing experience and if I remember correctly you are based at a shorter field. I think what it will do for you is to just confirm that everything that you're already seeing on short approach is right. It's reassuring to hear the call-outs, especially those last few feet, holding off, waiting for it to land, not forcing it to land.

[donkaye, MCFI]

2 hours ago, exM20K said:

Question for @LANCECASPER @donkaye and the other long body LHS owners: 

I purchased a system and will have it installed at annual this month.  My landing technique is 70-75 KIAS Vref, cross the threshold at 1.2 Vso, roll in up trim and roll out throttle in the flare.  How do you make use of the altitude callouts in landing? Day/night differences?

looking forward to experimenting.

-dan

If you're installing for the first time, I'd go ahead and do the full install with the extra 2 wires for GPS and Gear warning.  I personally like the system as it was originally designed.  I like to be reminded to check gear down.  When the new unit came, I had it simply installed as before because the shop didn't have the time to install the other 2 wires.  I have had the system call out altitude in rain, but I just flip a switch to disable the callouts.  Maybe at Annual I'll have the other 2 wires attached.

As far as using the system, the latest update is more accurate than the original and calls out system ready on startup.  I look forward to hearing the callouts on approach, especially the last couple when very near the ground.  I find it to be extremely accurate and makes it very easy to judge the rate of flare to "roll" the wheels on as the flying energy is fully dissipated.

I think everyone should have one of these units.

[jamesm]

I installed mine a few months back. the 70 ft altitude call out still throws me for a bit, but oddly the  5ft , 2ft and 1ft altitude call outs do not. The  gear warning works a advertised. did a go around the other day. I had never tried out the gear call out before until a few days ago. Nice having extra layer of safety.  Great product.

 

James '67C

[exM20K]

12 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

It's reassuring to hear the call-outs, especially those last few feet, holding off, waiting for it to land, not forcing it to land.

That is what I’m thinking will be the case.  How one handles the last foot or two landing a Mooney, especially the long body, makes all the difference.  Finishing with the yoke all the way back helps tremendously, and having a true 600 RMP idle are vital to not forcing the nose down.  My landings were crap for a while , and I couldn’t figure out why until I noticed that the aftermarket throttle required a hard pull to get to idle. 1000-1100 rpm will add substantial float.

[Parker_Woodruff]

16 hours ago, exM20K said:

Question for @LANCECASPER @donkaye and the other long body LHS owners: 

I purchased a system and will have it installed at annual this month.  My landing technique is 70-75 KIAS Vref, cross the threshold at 1.2 Vso, roll in up trim and roll out throttle in the flare.  How do you make use of the altitude callouts in landing? Day/night differences?

looking forward to experimenting.

-dan

I’ve been flying with @DonMuncy some lately (M20K) and we’ve been paying attention to the unit. We’ve both found the 20’ callout to be a useful cue for a power reduction and starting to level the pitch from nose-down as the airplane really starts to gain the benefits of ground effect. 

if you’ve started your final flare before hearing “5” then you’ve most certainly flared too soon.

What you need is to do several proper landings and then correlate the audio to your landing pitch and power changes.

It becomes an exceptionally good reinforcement that what you’re doing is right and can tip you off if you’re on the way to making a landing error. 

[hypertech]

I am not at all interested in the 1-3000 mail call outs from gos but I was planning to connect the gps to mute the erroneous callouts in imc. 
 

I don’t have my updated unit yet but will soon. Can you turn off the gps based callouts?

 

edit: I think this is answered above that you can mute the gps callouts. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by hypertech

[Oscar Avalle]

I just got the updated version installed. My field is at 2000 feet so initially it is a bit annoying to hear the call out 2,000 when you are on the ground. It would be great to mute it on the ground.

In the air the calls outs are useful. But not esencial. It falls into the mice to have category.

The calls outs below 200 feet on the other hand are great and extremely useful. It helps you grease every landing…

Oscar


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[Microkit]

 

VBox on a Mooney.   YT Audio during the flight was actually taken from the VBox as he forgot his GoPro! 

 

 

[FlyingScot]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:20 PM, donkaye said:

I think everyone should have one of these units.

I agree - it has been a great addition to the plane. Landings become much more consistent and night landings especially so. Helps at new fields and particularly those with a significant slant or confusing sight picture (think Sedona).

[RoundTwo]

On 1/21/2023 at 12:30 PM, Parker_Woodruff said:

if you’ve started your final flare before hearing “5” then you’ve most certainly flared too soon.

What you need is to do several proper landings and then correlate the audio to your landing pitch and power changes.

It becomes an exceptionally good reinforcement that what you’re doing is right and can tip you off if you’re on the way to making a landing error. 

Here’s the caption, you come up with the cartoon.

“But you told me not to flare until I heard 5”. 

[dfurst]

Night Landings.

Did my first couple of night landings with the LHS.  What a difference!  Or should I say, no difference.  I have not flown at night for over 5 years, and never at my new home base (KCGS).  I thought it was time, so I went out last night. All my landings last night were just like day landings. No worries about flaring too high, just normal approach.  Call outs started, waited for 10, started flare at 5.  Smooth landing each time.  Negates all the night time optical illusions. 

[bradp]

22 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

Here’s the caption, you come up with the cartoon.

“But you told me not to flare until I heard 5”. 

There are a bunch of airline guys on the forum, but reading the “how do I land a CRJ/ERJ/717 etc, my landings suck” threads… in addition to visual cues, the audible fallout is useful for initiating the flare. So it’s one more tool in the tool box. I’ve found that the box is not a new crutch but helpful in of itself. 
 

I’d think it would be reasonable to get rid of 61.57 all together  with use of a functioning RA or LHS

[RoundTwo]

22 hours ago, dfurst said:

Night Landings.

Did my first couple of night landings with the LHS.  What a difference!  Or should I say, no difference.  I have not flown at night for over 5 years, and never at my new home base (KCGS).  I thought it was time, so I went out last night. All my landings last night were just like day landings. No worries about flaring too high, just normal approach.  Call outs started, waited for 10, started flare at 5.  Smooth landing each time.  Negates all the night time optical illusions. 

Great pirep!

[Oscar Avalle]

The 3,000 and 2,000 feet call out repeat themselves endlessly. My field is at 2,000 and my pattern altitude is 3,000. I believe it is enough to call out 3,000 once but not again and again and again. It is extremely annoying to the point of distracting. Is there something I did wrong when I configured the unit?

[Microkit]

2 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

The 3,000 and 2,000 feet call out repeat themselves endlessly. My field is at 2,000 and my pattern altitude is 3,000. I believe it is enough to call out 3,000 once but not again and again and again. It is extremely annoying to the point of distracting. Is there something I did wrong when I configured the unit?

 

The deviation is probably set to +/- 50 ft (default) in the GPS Setup page within the LHS unit.   Set it to +/- 150 ft. When you deviate 50 ft and come back it will announce again.    

Try it with +/- 150 ft, and you can also disable GPS callouts while taking advantage of the Speed threshold for IMC operations.   We may release a firmware upgrade that allows selecting certain ones, and add more GPS callouts (4000, 5000, 6000).

Also, it depends on how your GPS is reporting it to the LHS.  Some GPS models report only in 50 ft increments, others report the lowest of nearest 100, (in 100 ft increments), others in 1’s and so on.

 

[Scottknoll]

We just had to do this in ours, this fixed the constant callouts. I didn’t realize the gps callouts are MSL and the LiDAR callouts are AGL. So we disabled the gps callouts.

Also, our avionics shop said that the wiring in the unit/pigtail is not shielded and this was causing feedback in the audio panel. The shop shortened the pigtail to reduce the amount of unshielded wire in the circuit and this helped, but did not totally eliminate the feedback. It was the data packets from the gps that were apparently causing the ticking sound in the audio panel. It’s tolerable now and only audible when the engine is not running.

Even with these limitations, I would install it again. Completely worth the gear monitoring.

[Oscar Avalle]

 
The deviation is probably set to +/- 50 ft (default) in the GPS Setup page within the LHS unit.   Set it to +/- 150 ft. When you deviate 50 ft and come back it will announce again.    
Try it with +/- 150 ft, and you can also disable GPS callouts while taking advantage of the Speed threshold for IMC operations.   We may release a firmware upgrade that allows selecting certain ones, and add more GPS callouts (4000, 5000, 6000).
Also, it depends on how your GPS is reporting it to the LHS.  Some GPS models report only in 50 ft increments, others report the lowest of nearest 100, (in 100 ft increments), others in 1’s and so on.
 

I did set it to +/-150 and it calls out 2,000 on the ground and repeats it over and over again.

Also my unit does not call out 200 feet only 50 and from there on correctly. It does not call out gear down.

Oscar


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[Microkit]

3 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

I did set it to +/-150 and it calls out 2,000 on the ground and repeats it over and over again.

Also my unit does not call out 200 feet only 50 and from there on correctly. It does not call out gear down.

Oscar


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Your field elevation seems to be right at the border of the +/-150, and it's not exactly 2000 ft. LHS repeats callout based on whatever is coming from the RS232.  You can see the data coming if you open the GPS Setup page and watch at the bottom (when the GPS has a fix).

There is an option within the LHS configuration to only announce 50 ft and below and not announce height.  The default is to announce 200 ft AGL and below, this is called Standard in the drop-down list.  If you only get 50 ft and below, that's what it is set to.

LHS does not call gear down.  It only calls Check Landing Gear and keeps repeating it if it sees the ground below and the gear is up.   We recommend everyone to do the test flight we presented here (see Page 17 on this thread) right after installation to confirm the Gear Warning System is operational.

It is also recommended to perform this test flight after each annual or panel work, a customer discovered the Gear Warning System wire was removed during an annual.

 

[Oscar Avalle]

Thank you!!! Sounds great


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[hammdo]

@Microkit, any news on the firmware update for NMEA 0183?

-Don

[Microkit]

12 hours ago, hammdo said:

@Microkit, any news on the firmware update for NMEA 0183?

-Don

 

It is scheduled before the middle of March.  I will email you a firmware update to check it out soon.

[Oscar Avalle]

 
It is scheduled before the middle of March.  I will email you a firmware update to check it out soon.

Please do so!


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[Oscar Avalle]

Your field elevation seems to be right at the border of the +/-150, and it's not exactly 2000 ft. LHS repeats callout based on whatever is coming from the RS232.  You can see the data coming if you open the GPS Setup page and watch at the bottom (when the GPS has a fix).
There is an option within the LHS configuration to only announce 50 ft and below and not announce height.  The default is to announce 200 ft AGL and below, this is called Standard in the drop-down list.  If you only get 50 ft and below, that's what it is set to.
LHS does not call gear down.  It only calls Check Landing Gear and keeps repeating it if it sees the ground below and the gear is up.   We recommend everyone to do the test flight we presented here (see Page 17 on this thread) right after installation to confirm the Gear Warning System is operational.
It is also recommended to perform this test flight after each annual or panel work, a customer discovered the Gear Warning System wire was removed during an annual.
 

Thank you for the guidance. I reset the unit and configured it from scratch. I set the limits as you suggested and everything works well.


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[Microkit]

On 2/27/2023 at 7:30 PM, hammdo said:

@Microkit, any news on the firmware update for NMEA 0183?

-Don

Don, I sent you an email with a firmware update to check out the NMEA 0183 option for the 200-C model.  

Anyone else in need of this firmware, please do email us (let us know if it's 200-B or 200-C model), we will probably keep it in Beta until we get confirmation from more than one pilot that NMEA is working at their end.  

[hammdo]

Got it! Thank you!

-Don