Mooney M20E VS. Beechcraft A24R Sierra

[DavidVF6113]

OK, Mooney lovers and owners out there. I am looking to buy a plane in the next few months and have pinned it down to a Mooney M20E VS. Beechcraft A24R Sierra. Let's talk specs, speed, fuel burn, put it all on the table. 

80% of my mission is 400mile round trips to Houston for work and the other 20% is the wife and 2 kids doing the $100 hamburger runs on the weekend.

[smccray]

Why a Sierra?  Have you considered a BE33 with an IO470K engine?

[takair]

Not much time in a Sierra, but years in the M20E.  They seem like very different airplanes to me.  As I recall, the Sierra is very roomy, but slower.  So, you will spend more time getting there in a roomier airplane.  This may, or may not correlate to comfort.  4 people in an E is tight....the kids will grow fast.  I love my E....kids are grown and most trips are one or two people in fast economy.  There are still times I wish I had more room.  My wife would prefer bigger.

My recommendation, take the family and sit in both and let your wife influence the decision.  If she likes it, you will fly more often with the family.  If you were looking for a business plane for just you, I would be pushing for the Mooney.  Oh, and don’t settle....find the best airplane you can for your budget.  

[DavidVF6113]

1 hour ago, smccray said:

Why a Sierra?  Have you considered a BE33 with an IO470K engine?

The BE33 is a nice plane but the cost is about twice that of the Sierra. I am trying to stay under 75K.

[DavidVF6113]

1 hour ago, takair said:

Not much time in a Sierra, but years in the M20E.  They seem like very different airplanes to me.  As I recall, the Sierra is very roomy, but slower.  So, you will spend more time getting there in a roomier airplane.  This may, or may not correlate to comfort.  4 people in an E is tight....the kids will grow fast.  I love my E....kids are grown and most trips are one or two people in fast economy.  There are still times I wish I had more room.  My wife would prefer bigger.

My recommendation, take the family and sit in both and let your wife influence the decision.  If she likes it, you will fly more often with the family.  If you were looking for a business plane for just you, I would be pushing for the Mooney.  Oh, and don’t settle....find the best airplane you can for your budget.  

Thanks for the insight. I like the idea of getting the wife's input. (; Happy wife happy life.

[GeeBee]

I hate to say this on this board, but your wife will like the Sierra better. It sits up higher, more window and light. Easier to enter and exit. That all said, be wary of the way the Sierra is built. It is not made to work on easily. A lot of bonded aluminum and proprietary parts that are difficult to get to and remove and replace. I would cite the fresh air ducting system as one example. That all said, the Sierra is a nice flying airplane, albeit slow to its competition. The real difficulty is finding a good one. A fair number on the market, but most are pretty rough.

 

[gsxrpilot]

My wife would like more room, bigger windows, easier to get in and out of... but when the trade off is another fuel stop and another hour of flight time on our longer 700nm+ trips... no thanks. She MUCH prefers the speed and efficiency of the Mooney. 

Settle in, take a pillow and a light blanket, get her a really good audio panel (PMA450b) so she can turn you off and listen to her own entertainment in high fidelity. She's comfortable and we get there much quicker and cheaper.

[aviatoreb]

For me - tall pilot - Mooney is way more comfortable than Beech - I got close to a V35B before I rejected it because I was just squished and uncomfortable in the pilot seats since the leg room was crummy.

The only airplane worth considering over a Mooney if easy entry and exit is the issue - which is quite a legit reason if there are mobility issues due to age, or disability or whatever - whether it is the pilot or your favorite passenger is not ANY of the low wing climb on the wing airplanes - if Mobility regress is the main shopping feature then look at the Cessna 177 which has fantastic low doors.  Or maybe a Piper cherokee/ twin with those big rear doors if your passenger has mobility issues and wants to sit in the back.  A g36 has big side doors too.

[geoffb]

If you can spend $75k and need more room than an E, when it comes time to sell, you'll be glad you bought the Deb.  With shrewd shopping I'll bet you can by a whole lot of C33 for $75,000.  Earlier than that, Bonanzas don't really seem offer that much more space.  Particularly in the baggage area.  

If you don't need the speed, then the PA-32s would be good, or a strut braced 210 even better.  With those you can take the wife, kids, kids friends, dog, your anvil collection...

[Ragsf15e]

4 hours ago, DavidVF6113 said:

OK, Mooney lovers and owners out there. I am looking to buy a plane in the next few months and have pinned it down to a Mooney M20E VS. Beechcraft A24R Sierra. Let's talk specs, speed, fuel burn, put it all on the table. 

80% of my mission is 400mile round trips to Houston for work and the other 20% is the wife and 2 kids doing the $100 hamburger runs on the weekend.

For $75k you can get a pretty reasonable F model which gives you more backseat room than the E.  It’s essentially the same otherwise.  I’d look there.  My F is comfortable with 2 adults and 2 kids.  Additionally, most Fs have real good useful load for long trips (64 gallons gas) or for stuffing people/baggage in.  Yet they only burn ~10gph.

[carusoam]

The worst thing I can think of is having my family select sitting on the ground, perceived comfort... Over what really matters...
 

Happy life, until they turn to you and ask...

• are we there yet?  
• How much longer?
• Can I have a pony?

You will wish you weighed the options logically, and chose...

• Speed, to get there...
• Efficiency, to not have to stop to get fuel...
• Safety... to avoid pushing on to impress your happy family...
• With all the money saved, the pony budget will be much larger...

Explaining these details would be best, before being in the air for a couple of hours...
 

Goofing up the logic can leave the family unhappy... but, you still have the other 80% of your slow solo flights to think about it...

You can always get it right the second time...

Families prefer Mooneys for a reason...

If you want to include your family in the decision... have them select which Mooney they would prefer... Use A side by side comparison...  Take them all to GMax and have a look for what’s available...

Even if it is sitting in two different M20Es...

As a child, I would be cranky if dad dropped the ball like that...

 

PP logic only, not a plane sales guy...

Logic doesn’t always win... Sort of... when I first got married so many years ago... our Corvette had to be an Automatic... it still is...  we’re still happy.

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[Schllc]

Very Limited options for autopilots in the Sierra.
If it doesn’t already have one, not sure if there are any options. 
I considered one at one point, most did not come with one, the few I saw that had them were very old ones, and when I started looking at modern autopilots, the Sierra was on none of the lists. 
I even posted on beech talk asking for help or suggestions and got no replies. 
I would not own a traveling plane without an autopilot. 
for my personal preference, it’s a safety feature I do not want to be without. 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

The worst thing I can think of is having my family select sitting on the ground, perceived comfort... Over what really matters...
 

Happy life, until they turn to you and ask...

• are we there yet?  
• How much longer?
• Can I have a pony?

You will wish you weighed the options logically, and chose...

• Speed, to get there...
• Efficiency, to not have to stop to get fuel...
• Safety... to avoid pushing on to impress your happy family...
• With all the money saved, the pony budget will be much larger...

Explaining these details would be best, before being in the air for a couple of hours...
 

Goofing up the logic can leave the family unhappy... but, you still have the other 80% of your slow solo flights to think about it...

You can always get it right the second time...

Families prefer Mooneys for a reason...

If you want to include your family in the decision... have them select which Mooney they would prefer... Use A side by side comparison...  Take them all to GMax and have a look for what’s available...

Even if it is sitting in two different M20Es...

As a child, I would be cranky if dad dropped the ball like that...

 

PP logic only, not a plane sales guy...

Logic doesn’t always win... Sort of... when I first got married so many years ago... our Corvette had to be an Automatic... it still is...  we’re still happy.

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

No pony for you Anthony!

[smccray]

6 hours ago, DavidVF6113 said:

The BE33 is a nice plane but the cost is about twice that of the Sierra. I am trying to stay under 75K.

Budget as a driver makes sense.  The bonanza variants have gone up in the last couple years.

 

4 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

On the other hand, if you are willing to accept Sierra speeds, I’d look for a good Cessna 182 instead.  At least then you’d have the useful load to go along with the interior room and a much simpler to maintain and cheaper to insure airplane to go along with it.   I don’t see any reason to buy a Sierra, personally.  

 

Said much better (and said directly) here. Cross shopping the Sierra and the E model doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

A Mooney is a traveling airplane built around efficiency. As a local flyer, the Sierra will be more comfortable. That’s not to say that you can’t sight see in an E model and travel in a Sierra, but these two airplanes excel in different areas.  The BE33 with the small engine is the closest equivalent Beech to an E/F/J model Mooney. 

I agree with Blue Highway Flyer- a 182 would be a great choice. A lot of models to buy, more liquid market when you want to sell.
 

[smccray]

I just looked- there are a couple late 60s debs on controller. That’s the era when they were sold with an IO-470K, 225hp engine.  Many will have an IO-470N (260HP) conversion. Variants with these engines are more likely to be in your budget range. 

[squeaky.stow]

8 hours ago, DavidVF6113 said:

Mooney M20E VS. Beechcraft A24R Sierra. Let's talk specs, speed, fuel burn, put it all on the table. 

80% of my mission is 400mile round trips to Houston for work and the other 20% is the wife and 2 kids doing the $100 hamburger runs on the weekend.

You have chosen a good pair of aircraft to compare as they both have the same hp, same fuel capacity, same fuel burn, roughly the same useful load, and similar retractable trailing-link gear with rubber puck shock absorbers.

Biggest difference is the speed. The Sierra will be about 30 knots slower, so your 400 mile round trip will be about 30 minutes quicker in a Mooney.

Second biggest difference is the size of the cabin. The Sierra is certainly roomy and has more doors.

Probably a good idea to try an arrange a demo flight in each so that you can decide if the larger cabin is important to you. I think you will find the handling characteristics of both types fairly similar, but that is a pretty personal and subjective thing.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, smccray said:

Budget as a driver makes sense.  The bonanza variants have gone up in the last couple years.

 

Said much better (and said directly) here. Cross shopping the Sierra and the E model doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

A Mooney is a traveling airplane built around efficiency. As a local flyer, the Sierra will be more comfortable. That’s not to say that you can’t sight see in an E model and travel in a Sierra, but these two airplanes excel in different areas.  The BE33 with the small engine is the closest equivalent Beech to an E/F/J model Mooney. 

I agree with Blue Highway Flyer- a 182 would be a great choice. A lot of models to buy, more liquid market when you want to sell.
 

On the other hand, while an E is a grear traveling machine, it's also useful for flightseeing and lunch runs. I use my C for rides on Airport Day, and just pull the throttle way back to blend in with the 172s and occasional Cherokee. 

So she goes 110 mph at 1000-1500 agl just fine, but also turns in 160-170mph (up to 148KTAS) at 7000-10,000 msl. The best of both worlds!

Get the Mooney, it will do both well. The Sierra only does one well. And let's not mention glide ratios, occupant safety or sewer lids . . . .

[DavidVF6113]

8 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

How tall are you and your wife?   This plays greatly into how well suited a short body Mooney will be for your 20% mission, as it is completely determinative of rear seat leg room.  I grew up in the back and later front seats of my C, which my dad bought in 1982, and I speak from experience on this.  He is 6’ and I am 6’ 4”.  Yes.  It can be done, but if you really think your entire family will be joining you even that often, unless you are all on the shorter side a mid body Mooney would be a much better choice.  I owned a J for 12 years before my dad recently passed the C down to me.  The difference in rear seat and luggage room between the short and mid body Mooneys is significant; more so in practical terms, in fact, than is the often lauded performance delta even between the C and the J.

On the other hand, if you are willing to accept Sierra speeds, I’d look for a good Cessna 182 instead.  At least then you’d have the useful load to go along with the interior room and a much simpler to maintain and cheaper to insure airplane to go along with it.   I don’t see any reason to buy a Sierra, personally.  

 

I am 6' and my wife is 5'6"

 

[carusoam]

Go Mooney!

Then look back as often as you want...

You know who will always be back there... 

Or... go slow boat... and you will always see the Mooney out front...

Mooney... no buyers remorse...

Slow boat... buyers remorse each time your Mooney friend goes by... 

PP thoughts only... not a high pressure sales guy...

best regards,

-a-

[DavidVF6113]

2 hours ago, squeaky.stow said:

You have chosen a good pair of aircraft to compare as they both have the same hp, same fuel capacity, same fuel burn, roughly the same useful load, and similar retractable trailing-link gear with rubber puck shock absorbers.

The biggest difference is the speed. The Sierra will be about 30 knots slower, so your 400-mile round trip will be about 30 minutes quicker in a Mooney.

The second biggest difference is the size of the cabin. The Sierra is certainly roomy and has more doors.

Probably a good idea to try and arrange a demo flight in each so that you can decide if the larger cabin is important to you. I think you will find the handling characteristics of both types fairly similar, but that is a pretty personal and subjective thing.

Thanks for the reply. I have put a lot of thought into it and yes they are similar plans. 

[carusoam]

Our M20C was great for traveling with four people...

until the back seaters reached their teens... 

 

Depending on how long the flight is... four normal sized people actually fit in a short body Mooney... 

Flights under an hour are perfect...

I was 6’ and 200# back in the day...  

If your finance administrator sits in the back... get the Long Body!

Best regards,

-a-

[moodychief]

I was flying a Sierra (100 hrs) immediately prior to buying my C model.  The speed and efficiency of the Mooney is unmatched.  When I start discussing a newer and different make of airplane my wife checks me with two questions:  What is the hourly fuel consumption?  Does it have a single piece wing?

I’m 6’1” and we flew four adults from Arkansas to the Bahamas.  Would have been nice to have the rear legroom of an F/J model but we made do.  That was our 1% trip. The other 99% of our trips over 13 years of ownership (1350 hours) have been 2 people.

The Sierra did give me a good transition of landing an airplane with rubber disk suspension.