does GFC 500 need yaw damper long body

flysamo · August 12, 2020

does the Mooney ovation long body need a yaw dampener, we are getting the kap 150 replaced with GFC 500, avionics shop says dampener not need on long body, this shop did certification on the GFC 500 for the long body air frame. starting conversion next month. looking forward 3 axis unit install and items like alt. pre select.

**donkaye** · August 12, 2020

Just now, flysamo said:

does the Mooney ovation long body need a yaw dampener, we are getting the kap 150 replaced with GFC 500, avionics shop says dampener not need on long body, this shop did certification on the GFC 500 for the long body air frame. starting conversion next month. looking forward 3 axis unit install and items like alt. pre select.

While it may not be necessary, it is REALLY nice to have. It is fairly inexpensive compared to the ones associated with previous autopilots. It, also, has more inputs compared to the older ones, so is much more effective. From Garmin "The yaw servo provides Dutch roll damping and turn coordination in response to yaw rate, roll angle, lateral acceleration, and airspeed."

You definitely should get it. You'll be happy you did. I've had mine for over a year now, and it completes one of the best autopilotsIi have flown.

**LANCECASPER** · August 12, 2020

25 minutes ago, flysamo said:

does the Mooney ovation long body need a yaw dampener, we are getting the kap 150 replaced with GFC 500, avionics shop says dampener not need on long body, this shop did certification on the GFC 500 for the long body air frame. starting conversion next month. looking forward 3 axis unit install and items like alt. pre select.

Garmin did the certification on long bodies in late 2018/early 2019 in Kansas not at an avionics shop.

flysamo · August 12, 2020

they provided the air craft and assistance to garmin

Edited August 12, 2020 by flysamo
added info

hypertech · August 12, 2020

I don't have it. It certainly isn't necessary. I might add it some day.

Niko182 · August 12, 2020

Id recommend it. Once you have it, you realize how much of a difference it actually makes.

ArtVandelay · August 12, 2020

Id recommend it. Once you have it, you realize how much of a difference it actually makes.

The big question is how much does it cost to add it?

**LANCECASPER** · August 12, 2020

1 hour ago, flysamo said:

they provided the air craft and assistance to garmin

No, @Jetlag provided the airplane (N9149X).

I was going to provide mine but decided against it since they would have had it for months and I felt at the time that there were some limitations I didn’t like in the GFC500.

flysamo · August 12, 2020

cost to add is about 1K, can be added any time

kris_adams · August 12, 2020

No yaw damper here on a J and super stoked about the GFC500 ...I wonder if there's a difference with the long body and higher HP compared to the J

Edited August 12, 2020 by Kris_Adams

Niko182 · August 12, 2020

57 minutes ago, flysamo said:

cost to add is about 1K, can be added any time

The servo alone is 1400. The yaw damper kit is another 850. And its about 8 hours of labour. Its a tad bit over 3 grand.

ArtVandelay · August 12, 2020

6 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

The servo alone is 1400. The yaw damper kit is another 850. And its about 8 hours of labour. Its a tad bit over 3 grand.

In that case I’ll probably pass, I need to do a flight test.

**donkaye** · August 12, 2020

On 8/12/2020 at 7:26 AM, flysamo said:

does the Mooney ovation long body need a yaw dampener, we are getting the kap 150 replaced with GFC 500, avionics shop says dampener not need on long body, this shop did certification on the GFC 500 for the long body air frame. starting conversion next month. looking forward 3 axis unit install and items like alt. pre select.

Where did you get your incorrect information? The M20M was provided by a former student of mine, Andy Rutherford.

**donkaye** · August 12, 2020

6 hours ago, flysamo said:

they provided the air craft and assistance to garmin

At least as related to the M20M that if incorrect.

**donkaye** · August 12, 2020

4 hours ago, flysamo said:

cost to add is about 1K, can be added any time

That's crazy, since the servo alone is $1,500. Having said that, the install is well worth it and should only be about $3,000 extra.

**donkaye** · August 12, 2020

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

In that case I’ll probably pass, I need to do a flight test.

Treat yourself well. Get the additional servo. Since it is installed side by side with the pitch servo, the cheapest you will be able to get it is with the original installation of the GFC 500.

**carusoam** · August 12, 2020

A brief summary...

1) Yaw control is going to make flying a bit more comfortable in bumpy conditions...

2) Kind of like Roll stabilizers for your yacht... http://www.naiad.com...

3) It takes modern computing power to make it work... unlike our KAP150’s 90s era PC computing power...

4) Computing power And matching Servo control has been prohibitively expensive until recently...

5) Today it is just expensive...

6) It makes more sense, the more hours you fly....

7) It will make more sense for a forever-plane to have one...

8) The backseaters will probably appreciate it more than the pilot will...

So...
9) No, Long Bodies are the perfect plane straight out of the factory....

10) Not needed... But neither is the LB... (don’t say this out loud where a brand B pilot can hear you)

11) Wanted? Sure...

12) Desired? Yes...

13) Worth it? If it comes with the new to you LB... absolutely... depending on your negotiating skills...

14) If you are a classic MS CB... I wouldn’t pay extra for that.... It will need an OH... price it as if it were run out....

15) Imagine if you could get manual yaw dampers... wait a minute...we have them on the end of our legs... they sit right on top of the rudder pedals....

Recap... not needed. But...

if you are spending a dozen AMUs already,
for an AP
when you have one already...
You are really going to like the extra detail...

Kind of like getting a GTN... and then opting for the TXI version.... Everyone needs a touch screen navigator...

This makes sense for the forever-plane...

Now... the follow up... does an LB make a good forever-plane.... in the retirement years...? (Please answer with the affirmative...)

Best regards,

-a-

khedrei · August 13, 2020

Of course its not needed but I don't understand why you would spend that kind of money just to not get the full benefit of the yaw damper.

I have a mid body and I really like mine. Though I don't really know what its like without. Its almost always on. The few times it hasn't been is definitely noticeable.

ArtVandelay · August 13, 2020

Of course its not needed but I don't understand why you would spend that kind of money just to not get the full benefit of the yaw damper.
I have a mid body and I really like mine. Though I don't really know what its like without. Its almost always on. The few times it hasn't been is definitely noticeable.

To who? I can see rear seat passengers may notice, not sure if I would sitting up front but I try to avoid flying in turbulence.
As I said, I will do some testing before I make final decision.

hypertech · August 13, 2020

45 minutes ago, khedrei said:

Of course its not needed but I don't understand why you would spend that kind of money just to not get the full benefit of the yaw damper.

Because the bill was already a lot of money and it isn't required. The LB already has rudder trim. So, I don't need it to keep the plane coordinated in level flight and barely any rudder input is needed in turns. The benefit seems to be in turbulence. Some day I'll spend the cash on it. Till then, I will do me best to avoid the turbulence anyway.

**donkaye** · August 13, 2020

12 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

To who? I can see rear seat passengers may notice, not sure if I would sitting up front but I try to avoid flying in turbulence.
As I said, I will do some testing before I make final decision.

That's the right way to do it. I just can't understand people who don't have the YD commenting on how it is not necessary when they've never experienced it in action. The Garmin unit also works to coordinate turns, although with the Mooney, not much rudder is necessary anyway.

khedrei · August 13, 2020

Like I said, not needed but useful. If you want to put it that way, the AP isn't needed either so why bother?!?! Do what you want. Everyone here has said it isnt needed. But if you are going to spend north of 20k on a feature rich AP then I don't know why you wouldnt put in the YD.

Sure.. just avoid turbulance... let me know how that works out for you.

**carusoam** · August 13, 2020

Great summary, kh!

Best regards,

-a-

**StevenL757** · August 14, 2020

On 8/12/2020 at 2:18 PM, flysamo said:

cost to add is about 1K, can be added any time

Not correct. It is in excess of $3500...labor included. Depending of course on what shop does the work. Where are you getting 1k?

khedrei · August 14, 2020

We have determined the 1k figure is not accurate. I think mine was about 3500 CAD plus labour. Don't know what the labour as it was bundled in with everything.

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does GFC 500 need yaw damper long body

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