ForeFlight Aircraft profiles

[DaveMC]

Has anyone created a more realistic M20M. profile for foreflight.  the available ones for the "Bravo" are labeled M20T and do not include a host of possible power settings. or is it better if I do it myself. 

[exM20K]

If you can send them a soft copy of the POH, they may cook a few up for you.  That’s how we got the TN profiles in the library.

-dan

[FoxMike]

I just made up my own performance from observed data.

[Rick Junkin]

23 hours ago, DaveMC said:

Has anyone created a more realistic M20M. profile for foreflight.  the available ones for the "Bravo" are labeled M20T and do not include a host of possible power settings. or is it better if I do it myself. 

I created custom profiles for my personal favorite power settings and altitudes. PM me your email address and I can send them to you if you'd like to take a look.

Power profiles are:
- 30/2400 LOP and ROP
- 30/2200 LOP and ROP

I'm planning to create another set for 32/2200.

Data is entered for 0', 10,000', 17,000' and 25,000'. If I recall correctly the Foreflight performance algorithm does linear interpolation between the entered data points. My planning data has matched my empirical results within ~2-3% so I've been happy with what I have without further refinement of the planning profiles I created.

Cheers,
Rick

[kortopates]

It’s always best to build your own profile or performance tables based on how you plan to fly your aircraft. Then you’ll understand how the numbers were derived. After all, virtually nobody flies the same identical FF’s ROP or LOP, or fly exactly what’s in the POH.


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[DaveMC]

22 hours ago, Junkman said:

I created custom profiles for my personal favorite power settings and altitudes. PM me your email address and I can send them to you if you'd like to take a look.

Power profiles are:
- 30/2400 LOP and ROP
- 30/2200 LOP and ROP

I'm planning to create another set for 32/2200.

Data is entered for 0', 10,000', 17,000' and 25,000'. If I recall correctly the Foreflight performance algorithm does linear interpolation between the entered data points. My planning data has matched my empirical results within ~2-3% so I've been happy with what I have without further refinement of the planning profiles I created.

Cheers,
Rick

Thank you. PM sent. 

[Davidv]

I use the standard 32/2400 even though I fly at 29/2400 and then adjust the fuel burn and speed using the % adjustment tool in the profile.  Maybe just by luck, but after increasing the fuel by roughly 10% and not touching the speed, I've come within a few minutes of hitting the estimated time on 5 hr flights as well as accurate on fuel.  I like to use their profile because it dynamically adjusts for any altitude so I don't have to worry about creating multiple profiles.

[slowflyin]

7 minutes ago, Davidv said:

I use the standard 32/2400 even though I fly at 29/2400 and then adjust the fuel burn and speed using the % adjustment tool in the profile.  Maybe just by luck, but after increasing the fuel by roughly 10% and not touching the speed, I've come within a few minutes of hitting the estimated time on 5 hr flights as well as accurate on fuel.  I like to use their profile because it dynamically adjusts for any altitude so I don't have to worry about creating multiple profiles.

What Davidv said.   Worked great for me as well.

 

[Rick Junkin]

Ok, I learned something more about Foreflight while trying to get my performance profiles to @DaveMC.

I have the Performance Plus Foreflight subscription and it let me build a complete multi-altitude performance data table for given power settings so I can use one profile for any cruise altitude at that power setting. It can be a lot of data points to collect and enter but it will be very accurate if you give it good data. Unfortunately that kind of custom-built profile can only be used with a Performance Plus subscription and can't be shared with someone with a Basic Plus or Pro Plus subscription. The Basic and Pro subscriptions CAN  use BASIC profiles built in a Performance Plus subscription, but then you get into what @Davidv was talking about in that you have to build a separate performance profile for each cruise altitude you might want to use. Now I understand the virtue of using the % increments/decrements to tune the internal Foreflight profiles as they're built from the incremental data in the POH data charts. That allows a Basic or Pro user to achieve essentially the same thing as the Performance Plus custom-built profiles.

I had to re-read the Foreflight Manual to figure this out. I"m reminded I need to do that more often.

Cheers,
Rick

[kortopates]

Ok, I learned something more about Foreflight while trying to get my performance profiles to [mention=19368]DaveMC[/mention].
I have the Performance Plus Foreflight subscription and it let me build a complete multi-altitude performance data table for given power settings so I can use one profile for any cruise altitude at that power setting. It can be a lot of data points to collect and enter but it will be very accurate if you give it good data. Unfortunately that kind of custom-built profile can only be used with a Performance Plus subscription and can't be shared with someone with a Basic Plus or Pro Plus subscription. The Basic and Pro subscriptions CAN  use BASIC profiles built in a Performance Plus subscription, but then you get into what [mention=17649]Davidv[/mention] was talking about in that you have to build a separate performance profile for each cruise altitude you might want to use. Now I understand the virtue of using the % increments/decrements to tune the internal Foreflight profiles as they're built from the incremental data in the POH data charts. That allows a Basic or Pro user to achieve essentially the same thing as the Performance Plus custom-built profiles.
I had to re-read the Foreflight Manual to figure this out. I"m reminded I need to do that more often.
Cheers,
Rick

Don’t you still have to use the Performance Plus capabilities in order to properly model the increase in TAS with altitude with the same constant power?
If not, I am not sure I am understanding?


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[DaveMC]

I have sent a feedback request to foreflight asking why we are having so much trouble.  I will report back. I do have a foreflight Performance Plus subscription

[Davidv]

It’s funny because about a year ago I sent them an email asking for the 29/2400 performance profile and they basically said if it’s in the POH we are happy to add it otherwise they can’t.  That’s when I resorted to adjusting the fuel on the 32/2400 to account for not running at peak TIT.

[Rick Junkin]

11 hours ago, kortopates said:

Don’t you still have to use the Performance Plus capabilities in order to properly model the increase in TAS with altitude with the same constant power?
If not, I am not sure I am understanding?


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Yes Paul, after doing some more reading I think you are correct. I believe I'm the one who was confused.

@Davidv, what level Foreflight subscription do you have? Performance Plus?

@DaveMC, same question... I've been assuming you have Basic Plus or Pro Plus.

Cheers,
Rick

[Davidv]

28 minutes ago, Junkman said:

Yes Paul, after doing some more reading I think you are correct. I believe I'm the one who was confused.

@Davidv, what level Foreflight subscription do you have? Performance Plus?

@DaveMC, same question... I've been assuming you have Basic Plus or Pro Plus.

Cheers,
Rick

Rick, I have performance plus.

[daytonabch04]

I have Performance Plus as well, but use the default 34/2400 setting even though I normally fly at 29/2300ish...I've found it to be relatively close to my JPI700 and GPS530W outputs as well.

[DaveMC]

48 minutes ago, Junkman said:

Yes Paul, after doing some more reading I think you are correct. I believe I'm the one who was confused.

@Davidv, what level Foreflight subscription do you have? Performance Plus?

@DaveMC, same question... I've been assuming you have Basic Plus or Pro Plus.

Cheers,
Rick

I have a Performance Plus subscription

[Rick Junkin]

38 minutes ago, Davidv said:

Rick, I have performance plus.

 

30 minutes ago, daytonabch04 said:

I have Performance Plus as well, but use the default 34/2400 setting even though I normally fly at 29/2300ish...I've found it to be relatively close to my JPI700 and GPS530W outputs as well.

Ok, now I'm starting to think that I'm doing something wrong on my end.

@Davidv, @daytonabch04, @kortopates, would one of you be willing to let me try to email you my N1088F profile and see if it will load into Foreflight for you? Troubleshooting 101. Or maybe that's Obsession 499. All I need is an email address.

@DaveMC I'm trying to prove that it's me, not you.

Cheers,
Rick

[kortopates]

I'd gladly take it if I was a Foreflight user, but I am Garmin Pilot user. But we have the same identical performance modeling in GP and without putting in the performance data for both direct power settings and with different altitudes, the software can't for example give me my expected  different trip times by different altitudes with different foretasted winds to tell me what is fastest and with how much fuel.  That's why I asked my original question. I find that very important for any Turbo since our TAS changes so significantly with altitude.

Wish I could help more. 

[Davidv]

27 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I'd gladly take it if I was a Foreflight user, but I am Garmin Pilot user. But we have the same identical performance modeling in GP and without putting in the performance data for both direct power settings and with different altitudes, the software can't for example give me my expected  different trip times by different altitudes with different foretasted winds to tell me what is fastest and with how much fuel.  That's why I asked my original question. I find that very important for any Turbo since our TAS changes so significantly with altitude.

Wish I could help more. 

Yes, it’s one of the major value propositions for me with ForeFlight.  It’s great to be able to have it dynamically adjust for any altitude and apply wind ect... I’m not sure if GP has the takeoff and landing performance but that’s helpful too since it models everything based on the airport conditions and your weight.

[Davidv]

36 minutes ago, Junkman said:

 

Ok, now I'm starting to think that I'm doing something wrong on my end.

@Davidv, @daytonabch04, @kortopates, would one of you be willing to let me try to email you my N1088F profile and see if it will load into Foreflight for you? Troubleshooting 101. Or maybe that's Obsession 499. All I need is an email address.

@DaveMC I'm trying to prove that it's me, not you.

Cheers,
Rick

Sent you a PM

[Rick Junkin]

32 minutes ago, Davidv said:

Sent you a PM

Got it and sent the profile. 

[DaveMC]

4 hours ago, Junkman said:

 

Ok, now I'm starting to think that I'm doing something wrong on my end.

@Davidv, @daytonabch04, @kortopates, would one of you be willing to let me try to email you my N1088F profile and see if it will load into Foreflight for you? Troubleshooting 101. Or maybe that's Obsession 499. All I need is an email address.

@DaveMC I'm trying to prove that it's me, not you.

Cheers,
Rick

foreflight guys are looking at it and I hope they will have an answer tomorrow. thank you for everything

[DaveMC]

The Foreflioght team figured itnout 

 

apparently the link got scrubbed a little in the transfer through the ISPs. I have it noe ant it looks great.  thank you

[MooneyBe]

Relighting this thread, does anyone happen to have Bravo performance numbers that would be readily importable to Garmin Pilot?

If you only have for Foreflight, I'm happy to take that file, convert to GP, and then share back out to Garmin users! One thing's for sure, I won't be using the POH numbers as I'd like my engine to last longer than 300 hours :D.