The future of general aviation

[DavidB]

After seeing the topic “factory closing“ go to 53 pages and evolve into the future of general aviation, I decided that I would take a walk on the wild side and start a new topic specifically about the future of general aviation.

 

I have been agonizing over what would be the ideal aircraft to put my money into. I previously owned a Diamond DA 40 and I really liked the composite construction but it simply didn’t have the range and speed that I was looking for.

My brother, having taken his 231 to TBO twice and his Bravo DX to TBO was obviously keen that I buy a Mooney. However the closure of the factory cooled my enthusiasm. A new aircraft  is out of the question financially. A hobby that has an $800,000 entry point is hard to justify. My rule of thumb is not more than 10 - 15% of net worth on toys. A 20 year old aircraft fetching +$200k doesn’t thrill me too much although the Encore is an excellent option.

 

So I decided that the experimental world was the place for me and the Lancair ES looked to be the ideal solution. It flies far and fast, is fairly docile, its a four seater and being experimental leaves the door open for relatively inexpensive avionics upgrades and maintenance. However the number of available aircraft is limited. The Lancair Legacy is a real performer and less complex than a Mooney but the off-field landing speeds means it’s probably deadly in that scenario.

 

My search led me to Europe where I found something interesting: the VL3 https://www.vl3aircraft.com. I am extremely curious as to what you MS members think of this aircraft. I see it and aircraft like it as the future of GA. I’ve run the build spreadsheet and the fully tricked out turbo Rotax runs about $250k. And since it doesn’t qualify as an LSA in the US, it is designated as an Experimental which throws off the certified shackles. One concern to me is how light it is. Might be very susceptible to rough air. But it has range and speed and is very good looking. What do you think?

 

 

 

[GeeBee]

Looks to be a blast to fly and if it meets your mission needs (2 place, limited baggage, limited IFR) go for it!

 

(Does not have a magneto ignition though, just sayin  )

 

[carusoam]

David,

There are a couple of offspring to the Mooney Closing thread...

There are several threads of what Mooney should be building next...

There are a handful of people that generated a thread about the twin or turbine they were moving up because Mooney doesn’t have a six seater or UL above 1500...

There are threads about the other plane people have in the hangar next door...

 

Economics are amazing... anyone that has gone to TBO with several engines knows the overall costs of flying...

 

MS is about Mooneys, and speed, and efficiency, and safety, and...

... and what is next for the Mooney factory... it isn’t done yet!

 

Don’t be surprised by the few MSers that know anything about a European kit plane near an LSA category... 

Good luck on your quest...

Best regards,

-a-

[Browncbr1]

Looks cool,   I wonder if an Io-320 with manual waste gate turbo would fit.  

I wouldn’t bank on it being as fast as they claim, when they use the word “probably.”

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Browncbr1

[carusoam]

It has wow characteristics when compared to the C172, Robinson R22, and an un-named gyrocopter...

https://www.vl3aircraft.com/aircraft/#explore

The most powerful engine available is a Rotax at 141hp...

Cruises as fast as an O3, with the same long distance legs....
 

And has a parachute... please slow down before needing it...

Sounds interesting....

Color me skeptical... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, carusoam said:

It has wow characteristics when compared to the C172, Robinson R22, and an un-named gyrocopter...

https://www.vl3aircraft.com/aircraft/#explore

The most powerful engine available is a Rotax at 141hp...

Cruises as fast as an O3, with the same long distance legs....
 

And has a parachute... please slow down before needing it...

Sounds interesting....

Color me skeptical... 

Best regards,

-a-

Full fuel, max baggage (55 lbs) leaves 252 lb for people. 

Something I've never seen before:  Minimum Crew Weight! Gotta weigh 143 lb; not a problem since graduating from high school.

Oh, the speed--"Max Cruise" is 195 knots, there's no information on a normal (<75%) cruise . . . .

But you can downsize and get full fuel, full baggage and have almost 400 lb. for occupants. But that lowers Max. Cruise to 145 knots, so expect travel to be slower than my C (full fuel payload is 658 lb, so 55 lbs baggage leaves 603 for occupants, or max baggage of 120 lbs leaves 538 lb for people).

It all depends on what you want . . . . .

[DavidB]

I am skeptical too but there is a whole fleet of these things in Europe and a couple flew to Oshkosh a couple of years ago. Nice youtube video available on that. Here's some test flight info they sent me a couple of months ago.  https://jmbaircraft.com/newsroom/2020/flight-tests-of-915-successfully-completed/
 

We’ve all seen wondercraft that never make it to reality but these guys are doing it. Maybe Mooney could make them in the USA under license?
And they aren’t a kit. They are shipped in a container with the wings off which (I believe) are then installed glider style.  To meet the 51% rule for home built you do have to go to Czech Rep and hang around the factory for a couple of weeks. Probably not hard duty  

But I’m not posting all this as a promo, just trying to see what others see in their crystal ball. 

[ZuluZulu]

It looks like a souped-up Sport Cruiser, like it's the M2 to the Sport Cruiser's 230i.

[donkaye, MCFI]

15 hours ago, DavidB said:

After seeing the topic “factory closing“ go to 53 pages and evolve into the future of general aviation, I decided that I would take a walk on the wild side and start a new topic specifically about the future of general aviation.

 

I have been agonizing over what would be the ideal aircraft to put my money into. I previously owned a Diamond DA 40 and I really liked the composite construction but it simply didn’t have the range and speed that I was looking for.

My brother, having taken his 231 to TBO twice and his Bravo DX to TBO was obviously keen that I buy a Mooney. However the closure of the factory cooled my enthusiasm. A new aircraft  is out of the question financially. A hobby that has an $800,000 entry point is hard to justify. My rule of thumb is not more than 10 - 15% of net worth on toys. A 20 year old aircraft fetching +$200k doesn’t thrill me too much although the Encore is an excellent option.

 

So I decided that the experimental world was the place for me and the Lancair ES looked to be the ideal solution. It flies far and fast, is fairly docile, its a four seater and being experimental leaves the door open for relatively inexpensive avionics upgrades and maintenance. However the number of available aircraft is limited. The Lancair Legacy is a real performer and less complex than a Mooney but the off-field landing speeds means it’s probably deadly in that scenario.

 

My search led me to Europe where I found something interesting: the VL3 https://www.vl3aircraft.com. I am extremely curious as to what you MS members think of this aircraft. I see it and aircraft like it as the future of GA. I’ve run the build spreadsheet and the fully tricked out turbo Rotax runs about $250k. And since it doesn’t qualify as an LSA in the US, it is designated as an Experimental which throws off the certified shackles. One concern to me is how light it is. Might be very susceptible to rough air. But it has range and speed and is very good looking. What do you think?

 

 

 

Are you testing the 2nd Class Medical eye exam?  

[DavidB]

Did you pass?  
Thought I chose default fonts but...

[RobertGary1]

On 7/12/2020 at 8:24 PM, Hank said:

Full fuel, max baggage (55 lbs) leaves 252 lb for people. 

. . . .

I’ve never understood these full fuel comparisons. Just fill 1/2 the tank with foam and you’ll greatly increase your max fuel weight. It’s a totally useless number in my opinion.  Rarely do I actually need all 6.5 hours of fuel in my Mooney. 
 

-Robert 

[Hank]

Just now, RobertGary1 said:

I’ve never understood these full fuel comparisons. Just fill 1/2 the tank with foam and you’ll greatly increase your max fuel weight. It’s a totally useless number in my opinion.  Rarely do I actually need all 6.5 hours of fuel in my Mooney. 
 

-Robert 

I've ended up going 4:45 twice due to winds aloft. Landing with 1:20 in the tanks is great! The other way means a fuel stop somewhere unfamiliar, on a windy day--no thank you. 

Monroy advertises that eliminating a fuel stop with extended range tanks can knock over an hour off of a flight. I only have the factory 52 gallons, and I'm fine with that. 

[ArtVandelay]

I've ended up going 4:45 twice due to winds aloft. Landing with 1:20 in the tanks is great! The other way means a fuel stop somewhere unfamiliar, on a windy day--no thank you. 
Monroy advertises that eliminating a fuel stop with extended range tanks can knock over an hour off of a flight. I only have the factory 52 gallons, and I'm fine with that. 

Generally yes, unless you fly to Europe or the Caribbean. Where the options to land are limited, time consuming, and/or expensive.
I wonder what a fuel stop in the Bahamas/T&C would cost in time and money (fuel + customs) as oppose to just flying direct to Puerto Rico for example.

[aviatoreb]

Looks pretty great.  I really like the Rotax engines generally.  I wish they would make 6 cylinder engines as well but anyway their rotax are really a modern take on aviation engines.  Efficient, light, and most of all thoroughly modern design, fit and build.

Usually a rotax airplane is not a 195TAS airplane on 141hp.  But I guess this little airplane is so small and clean ...  That's going to be some amazing mpg on the low hourly fuel burn of a highly efficient and small rotax engine.

>2000fpm climb on a little rotax.  WOW.

Its a light plane, but as for what its like in bumps, wing loading also counts.

[Herlihy Brother]

You don't need a factory to support a Mooney. You can make any part you need yourself(or buy it at aircraft spruce), it's a simple beautiful plane. I've flown in experimentals...I'd rather put my family in the Mooney any day. 20+ years and 2000+ Mooney hours, never once aog yet!