chriscalandro Posted July 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 I hadn’t actually thought of that.... I guess it depends on how bad it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Yetti said: So why insure the Avionics? I look at it this way. If the plane is really totaled I don't care because I am totaled too. If the plane gets kind of totaled, I can buy the plane from the insurance company and pull the boxes out and stick them in something new. Is this a silly way of thinking? The avionics form part of the plane. If you have a $100K panel inside of a $40K plane then just about claim could technically total the plane because of the high salvage value. These are hairs you don’t want to split for $50-$200/year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 48 minutes ago, Andy95W said: I'm doing some upgrades so this is a really good question for me, too. ? @Parker_Woodruff ? Answered in the next post up. But as a general rule it won’t cost that much more to increase the hull value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Parker_Woodruff said: The avionics form part of the plane. If you have a $100K panel inside of a $40K plane then just about claim could technically total the plane because of the high salvage value. These are hairs you don’t want to split for $50-$200/year. So more realistic I have 20K of equipment in a 50K plane. Installation costs don't figure into the salvage value of the plane. And he got a 400 dollar bump. So the hair is a bit wider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Yetti said: So more realistic I have 20K of equipment in a 50K plane. Installation costs don't figure into the salvage value of the plane. And he got a 400 dollar bump. So the hair is a bit wider. I just quoted a 1971 M20E, pretty similar to your situation and it yielded $234 difference. You will spend far more than $234 in buying back your totaled plane to move $20K of avionics to another plane and then have to install that equipment onto the other plane. You're also in the business of selling the bent up metal when it's done. $40K Hull - $1050 $60K Hull - $1284 On top of all that...you don't know if you'll be able to buy the salvage for a price you're happy with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 On 7/2/2020 at 10:22 AM, Parker_Woodruff said: I just quoted a 1971 M20E, pretty similar to your situation and it yielded $234 difference. You will spend far more than $234 in buying back your totaled plane to move $20K of avionics to another plane and then have to install that equipment onto the other plane. You're also in the business of selling the bent up metal when it's done. $40K Hull - $1050 $60K Hull - $1284 On top of all that...you don't know if you'll be able to buy the salvage for a price you're happy with... ^^^^ THIS ^^^^ When that insurance adjuster sees that fine new $60K panel in your $40K insured value plane, just what do you think he's going to set the buy-back price at? Remember, if it's totaled, it's THEIR airplane, radios and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 On 7/4/2020 at 11:08 PM, MikeOH said: ^^^^ THIS ^^^^ When that insurance adjuster sees that fine new $60K panel in your $40K insured value plane, just what do you think he's going to set the buy-back price at? Remember, if it's totaled, it's THEIR airplane, radios and all. This is interesting. I remember they ask what equipment you have in the plane and i think it was to determine what their salvage value would be. Doesn't seem fair to me to count anything that wasn't included in that disclosure as their's because it wasn't used to adjust the rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Nukemzzz said: This is interesting. I remember they ask what equipment you have in the plane and i think it was to determine what their salvage value would be. Doesn't seem fair to me to count anything that wasn't included in that disclosure as their's because it wasn't used to adjust the rates. That is an interesting point. I assumed the 'boilerplate' policy wording states that the aircraft including all avionics is theirs in the case of a total. Hence, that's a REALLY good reason not to underinsured if you actually have valuable radios! @Parker_Woodruff, what's the scoop? Edited July 7, 2020 by MikeOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 Gents, When you buy insurance... You want to discuss the value of the plane... we typically use an agreed upon value... The value includes everything... It is best to be as honest as possible on the way in... This way you get what you pay for... at a fair price. If you under estimate, you save on payments... and get beat up on the loss. If you over estimate, you get beat up on payments... and are stuck fixing a mangled plane that you want to get totaled... There are always opposing forces in economic theory... or trees would grow to the sky... the stock market would always go up.... Mooneys would keep accelerating towards the speed of sound, or light.... Look for the limits in what you want... they will always be there... PP thoughts only... stuff I always wondered about.... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 On 7/4/2020 at 8:08 PM, MikeOH said: ^^^^ THIS ^^^^ When that insurance adjuster sees that fine new $60K panel in your $40K insured value plane, just what do you think he's going to set the buy-back price at? Remember, if it's totaled, it's THEIR airplane, radios and all. Don't file a claim? Keep or sell the avionics that are worth more than the insured value of the plane. Buy liability insurance only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytonabch04 Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, carusoam said: Gents, When you buy insurance... You want to discuss the value of the plane... we typically use an agreed upon value... The value includes everything... It is best to be as honest as possible on the way in... This way you get what you pay for... at a fair price. If you under estimate, you save on payments... and get beat up on the loss. If you over estimate, you get beat up on payments... and are stuck fixing a mangled plane that you want to get totaled... There are always opposing forces in economic theory... or trees would grow to the sky... the stock market would always go up.... Mooneys would keep accelerating towards the speed of sound, or light.... Look for the limits in what you want... they will always be there... PP thoughts only... stuff I always wondered about.... Best regards, -a- When I got my initial insurance I used the blue book value stated from the lender. It was a good chunk higher than I paid for my plane. I’m comfortable knowing my plane is insured for a covered amount higher and covers everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 8 hours ago, Nukemzzz said: This is interesting. I remember they ask what equipment you have in the plane and i think it was to determine what their salvage value would be. Doesn't seem fair to me to count anything that wasn't included in that disclosure as their's because it wasn't used to adjust the rates. If we go by that logic, then we'd have to do what Robinson's partner does and decrease the agreed value for each hour flown. Your policy starts at $X and decreases by $Y per hour to account for airframe and engine overhaul. And it's a lot of money per hour. For Mooney pilots, there's nothing stopping the policyholder from changing the agreed value when you install something new or do an overhaul, or even if the value changes due to market forces. In fact, many policies give a 30 or more day reporting period to increase the agreed value for this reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, MikeOH said: That is an interesting point. I assumed the 'boilerplate' policy wording states that the aircraft including all avionics is theirs in the case of a total. Hence, that's a REALLY good reason not to underinsured if you actually have valuable radios! @Parker_Woodruff, what's the scoop? If something is installed as part of the airplane or temporarily removed for service, it is part of the salvage. Insure accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 If yall want some fun nighttime reading, check out Robinson's non-admitted insurance partner's basic policy provisions and special condition acknowledgement: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ca79049ca525b79ff1ead3d/t/5cf7e387c130c900013b19b5/1559749512307/Specimen_policy_pages_1+through_11.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ca79049ca525b79ff1ead3d/t/5cf7e472836ed7000110ec7f/1559749747251/Special_Conditions.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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