Oil Change frequency for turbocharged Mooney

[Richard Knapp]

I've recently bought a Mooney Rocket.  I've got 25 hours on it since its annual.  Oil is used but not very dark.  I'll have to add its first quart soon.

How often do you guys with turbocharged engines change your oil?

Thanks!!

[carusoam]

Great question Richard...

Color doesn’t usually drive the decision...

Mostly because the rate people change their oil it doesn’t get very dark...

...And what causes oil darkness isn’t something that gets fixed by changing it more frequently...

Stand by for the usual MSers with TCs....

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

17 minutes ago, Richard Knapp said:

I've recently bought a Mooney Rocket.  I've got 25 hours on it since its annual.  Oil is used but not very dark.  I'll have to add its first quart soon.

How often do you guys with turbocharged engines change your oil?

Thanks!!

On the M20M (Turbo charged TIO-540-AF1B) Lycoming recommends 25 hours. I would think that the turbo Continental in the Rocket runs at least as hot.

[alextstone]

I fly a Bravo.  Every 25 hours.  I do it myself and I inspect other items while in the process.  

[Ricky_231]

K with -LB1 engine - Continental says 50 hours (pic below). On average I add about a quart every 10-15 hours (varies depending on whether it's been mostly long xc flight vs. bunch of short hops, maneuver/pattern work flights). 7 qts is it's happy place, so I don't let it drop below 6.5 - I'll add a half a quart if needed. As stated above, oil is never dark - pretty much looks like it just got out of the bottle all the way to the oil change. I use Phillips 66 20w50.

 

[Danb]

Every 20-25 hours or four months 

[Unit74]

25 hours on oil, 50 hours on a filter. I fly a TC Lycoming. 

[WilliamR]

25hrs/3mos which ever first.  TCM TSIO-360MB

[alextstone]

25 hours on oil, 50 hours on a filter. I fly a TC Lycoming. 

Hmm, I've never considered that the filter could be changed at 50 hrs instead of 25. Where did you arrive at this? Any other people doing this?

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[carusoam]

Alex,

I believe this is a logic based decision...

If the POH recommends changing oil and filter every 50hrs....

A good soldier can change them at 25hrs...and fly more comfortably knowing he is doing a good thing...

A good soldier with a limited maintenance budget may decide changing the oil is quick and easy, and not too costly...

 

Things to consider.... there are two reasons to change the oil and the filter...

1) oil itself breaks down slowly over time at temperature.... (reason to change oil)

2) Oil gets dirty with use.... but not too dirty in 25hrs compared to 50hrs...(reason to change filter)

 

So...

If the cost of having somebody swap out the filter as often as you would like the oil changed, gets in your way enough, you don’t even change the oil....until 50hrs...

Changing the oil and leaving the filter is a good compromise...

Many people around here look at the total cost of swapping the engine off the front and change oil on their regular pre-determined schedule...

Find the threads on how they remove the cowl, drain the oil, where they get their filters from....

Or who their favorite mechanic is that they trust to do the job...

Hope I covered that properly ...

Best regards,

-a-

Best regards,

 

[kortopates]

Hmm, I've never considered that the filter could be changed at 50 hrs instead of 25. Where did you arrive at this? Any other people doing this?

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What would you think of pouring in a quart of dirty old oil into your crankcase after changing your oil? Not changing the filter is even worse than that because your missing one of the most important inspections we have with every oil change - the oil filter inspection to check for metal.

Here is a lot more from Mike B on oil change intervals and why we need to change the oil regularly in our aircraft engines - because of the contaminants.


https://blog.aopa.org/aopa/2017/02/24/why-change-the-oil/

Also I’ll add not letting your oil get too dirty is even more important in Turbo’s because of our hydraulically controlled waste gates. You’ll notice if the oil is getting real dirty the waste gate controller is no longer as smooth in maintaining max boost and will start to show larger fluctuations in MAP. Keeping the oil clean makes it easier to regulate oil pressure to the wastegate which controls its position.


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[Unit74]

I’ve had this convo with three APs who work on my plane. They all concur that a filter change at 25 is a waste of time and money. A dump and pour at 25 is a fine approach. But if someone just does not feel like that works for them, I have no problem with them spending their money. 

[Danb]

26 minutes ago, Unit74 said:

I’ve had this convo with three APs who work on my plane. They all concur that a filter change at 25 is a waste of time and money. A dump and pour at 25 is a fine approach. But if someone just does not feel like that works for them, I have no problem with them spending their money. 

With LLC due respect, I’d have my APs research with known experts in the field as mentioned by kartopates

[alextstone]

5 hours ago, kortopates said:

What would you think of pouring in a quart of dirty old oil into your crankcase after changing your oil? Not changing the filter is even worse than that because your missing one of the most important inspections we have with every oil change - the oil filter inspection to check for metal.

Here is a lot more from Mike B on oil change intervals and why we need to change the oil regularly in our aircraft engines - because of the contaminants.


https://blog.aopa.org/aopa/2017/02/24/why-change-the-oil/

Also I’ll add not letting your oil get too dirty is even more important in Turbo’s because of our hydraulically controlled waste gates. You’ll notice if the oil is getting real dirty the waste gate controller is no longer as smooth in maintaining max boost and will start to show larger fluctuations in MAP. Keeping the oil clean makes it easier to regulate oil pressure to the wastegate which controls its position.


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Yea, @kortopates, since you put it that way it does seem short sighted and unnecessarily cheap not to change and inspect the filter each time.  

 

 

 

[StevenL757]

42 minutes ago, Unit74 said:

I’ve had this convo with three APs who work on my plane. They all concur that a filter change at 25 is a waste of time and money. A dump and pour at 25 is a fine approach. But if someone just does not feel like that works for them, I have no problem with them spending their money. 

@kortopates is spot on.  Your A&Ps apparently don’t agree with the phrase “penny-wise, pound-foolish”.

Change the filter when you change the oil at 25-30 hours.  Period.

Steve

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Unit74 said:

I’ve had this convo with three APs who work on my plane. They all concur that a filter change at 25 is a waste of time and money. A dump and pour at 25 is a fine approach. But if someone just does not feel like that works for them, I have no problem with them spending their money. 

I would find a different A & P. None that I have ever used would even consider this approach.

This subject comes up on here from time to time. I've never understood the logic in going to all of the work of taking the cowling off and changing the oil and leaving a dirty filter filled with dirty oil on the engine. The filter is about $20 (arguably the least expensive part on your airplane), the turbo-charged engine is over $50,000 (the most expensive part on your airplane). Where is the savings? I wouldn't do this in my lawnmower or car. I certainly wouldn't do it in my airplane.

You have to do a lot of things right to make TBO on the engine. This is one of them.

[StevenL757]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

This subject comes up on here from time to time. I've never understood the logic in going to all of the work of taking the cowling off and changing the oil and leaving a dirty filter filled with dirty oil on the engine. The filter is about $20, the turbo-charged engine is over $50,000. Where is the savings?

You have to do a lot of things right to make TBO on the engine. This is one of them.

Couldn't agree more.

[GeeBee]

Oil change on a Lycoming is more important that a Continental due to the cam-lifter weakness.While some may argue Continentals are also weak in that area, all the engine shops I talk to say the majority of the Lycomings they overhaul have cam issues far in excess of Continentals.  That all said, with a filter I change the oil every 50 hours or every 90 days, whichever comes first. Even oil with little time on it will turn acidic over time, so best to get it out of there after 90 days.Use Camguard if you can, depending on your engine. The fact is, most aviation engines are euthanized due to corrosion, not wear. In a addition to oil changes I pump desiccated air through my engine when sitting in the hangar during the warm months and keep it warm. with continuous warm air flow in the winter.

 

 

 

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

Aside: The rental 172s at the local flight school get an oil change every 100 hours.  Of course that happens every 3-4 weeks.  

[alextstone]

Aside: The rental 172s at the local flight school get an oil change every 100 hours.  Of course that happens every 3-4 weeks.  

They probably burn so much oil that they actually after in the progressive oil change program

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[Ricky_231]

10 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Aside: The rental 172s at the local flight school get an oil change every 100 hours.  Of course that happens every 3-4 weeks.  

Interesting - my local flight school does oil changes at every 50 hours on their 172s.

[PJClark]

Rocket, 25 hours.  Change the filter.  Keep it filled to 12 qts.  Coming up on my second change and have added just two qts in ~ 46 hours

[kpaul]

Ok, so folks are saying if you change your oil, change your filter even if you do it at 25 hours.  But, I also see anywhere from 25 to 30 to 50 hours. I change both every 30 hours.

Playing devils advocate,  how is it acceptable to change both at 50 hours, and not acceptable to change the oil but not the filter at 25 hours?

[Jerry 5TJ]

56 minutes ago, kpaul said:

Ok, so folks are saying if you change your oil, change your filter even if you do it at 25 hours.  But, I also see anywhere from 25 to 30 to 50 hours. I change both every 30 hours.

Playing devils advocate,  how is it acceptable to change both at 50 hours, and not acceptable to change the oil but not the filter at 25 hours?

Nobody knows.    Consensus is -- change both oil and oil filter frequently.

[Ricky_231]

8 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Nobody knows.    Consensus is -- change both oil and oil filter frequently.

if you notice, on the continental -LB1 manual (and on the K POH), they say if you have a "large filter" (POH calls it "external filter") you should change the filter at 50 hours and the oil at 100hrs. Not sure why you'd do that though.

 

On 4/27/2020 at 11:22 AM, Ricky_231 said: