midlifeflyer Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said: Wrong section, you’re quoting requirements to get PP certificate, check 61.57 (b) (1) Tom No, he's right. @eman1200 was quoting the commercial requirements (the subject of the thread) from 61.129(b)(4)(ii). You are quoting the reg for passenger-carrying currency. There is no PP night solo requirement. Edited December 30, 2019 by midlifeflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: Next I need a VFR Day and VFR Night Cross country with a CFI on board. 2 hours or 100 miles. My brother and I plan to launch about 3am on Tuesday morning and slow fly our way across Kansas to get breakfast (Night). Then we'll fly home (Day) BTW, that's not "with a CFI on board" like the alternative to solo. The two 100 NM cross countries are full-fledged instructional flights and logged as such. Edited December 30, 2019 by midlifeflyer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted December 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, midlifeflyer said: BTW, that's not "with a CFI on board" like the alternative to solo. The two 100 M cross countries are full-fledged instructional flights and logged as such. Yeah, if solo had been an option, I'd have qualified already. But there's been no other reason to do such a flight with a CFI. Thankfully my younger brother is a CFI and his fee will be picking up the tab on his breakfast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman1200 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said: No, he's right. @eman1200 mods, can we make this a sticky please? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, gsxrpilot said: Yeah, if solo had been an option, I'd have qualified already. But there's been no other reason to do such a flight with a CFI. Thankfully my younger brother is a CFI and his fee will be picking up the tab on his breakfast Heck, if I still lived there, I'd do both for dinner. Day flight out there; dinner; night flight back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, eman1200 said: mods, can we make this a sticky please? Something bout a broken clock? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman1200 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, midlifeflyer said: Something bout a broken clock? yup. but it was more about you admitting I was right than about me actually being right. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted December 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said: Heck, if I still lived there, I'd do both for dinner. Day flight out there; dinner; night flight back. I'd be all over that deal! And if you're ever in Denver... We were originally planning to do a dinner flight. But around the holidays both family demands and his work schedule (SWA), have most evenings tied up. But no one cares what we do between 4am and 10am. So we'll do the night leg first, eat breakfast, and the day leg coming home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibra Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said: I suppose the FAA wanted Commercial Pilot candidates to successfully fly a cross country. So, no bringing along a friend to help find the “direct to” button. Depends who is pax, when it is current pilot it helps, however, sorting the mess when a friend press the wrong button require more "pilot button currency" Also, dealing with pax distractions and emergencies in a 400nm leg is a good skill for commercial job It was dead easy when I used to fly single seats, under "family & friends flying", I barely manage to catch it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 No, he's right. [mention=12849]eman1200[/mention] was quoting the commercial requirements (the subject of the thread) from 61.129((4)(ii). You are quoting the reg for passenger-carrying currency. There is no PP night solo requirement. I made an assumption when I saw 1300 hours, my bad, see above Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman1200 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 30 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: Thankfully my younger brother is a CFI and his fee will be picking up the tab on his breakfast so here's a stupid question...……..does it have to be a double I? can a regular old CFI give comm instruction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 57 minutes ago, eman1200 said: right but I would have expected them to be listed somewhere in the requirements, something like "instruction in comm maneuvers 1, 2 and 3..." You have to have 4 hours “checkride prep” with cfi within 90 days of the checkride. “Checkride prep” encompasses the maneuvers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, eman1200 said: so here's a stupid question...……..does it have to be a double I? can a regular old CFI give comm instruction? Yes, except for the 10 hours of instrument work. The commercial certificate is basically a VFR certificate. You don't need an instrument training to get one, although there are some limitations in using it without the rating. It's not that long ago that the two dual cross countries even had to be done under VFR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said: Yes, except for the 10 hours of instrument work. Wouldnt this be the same as for the PPL just more hours, which a single I can give? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Well any time I have logged since getting my PPL has been logged as PIC. Time with an instructor is still logged as PIC after my PPL except when getting rotorcraft rating. Any flight time besides dual with CFI is (PIC) solo I cannot realistically say if I had anyone else on board or not. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 T&Gs at night, scary. I like the ILS at night, but when I have to, I like the stop and go. Usually not a lot of traffic at night. I have a long runway in KGEG, and it gives you time to reset... like set the flaps if required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 T&Gs at night, scary. I like the ILS at night, but when I have to, I like the stop and go. Usually not a lot of traffic at night. I have a long runway in KGEG, and it gives you time to reset... like set the flaps if required. If you use 15°, nothing to do but add power, prop & mixture should already be set, start climbing, retract gear.....Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said: If you use 15°, nothing to do but add power, prop & mixture should already be set, start climbing, retract gear..... Tom True, and I know this doesn’t apply to the OP, but if I do it this way, i can’t log it for currency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, RLCarter said: Wouldnt this be the same as for the PPL just more hours, which a single I can give? No. A few reasons. The most obvious is 61.195(b)(3) which specifically says you need to be a CFII to provide the "instrument training required for commercial pilot and airline transport pilot certificates." More globally, If you look at the task in 61.129, it says 10 hours of "instrument training. " That's a key phrase which means with a CFII. Notice that the private training doesn't say that. Instead, the private requirement is 3 hours of training in "control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments. That "global" meaning of the phrases and the difference between them is discussed in the 2016 Jablecki official interpretation. My best guess as to why is that a VFR-only commercial pilot is expected to have a higher level of emergency instrument skills than a private pilot. Edited December 31, 2019 by midlifeflyer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 1) I imagine that instrument instruction logged during IR would double count toward commercial 2) looking through my logbook there are some flight where I literally have no idea whether I was solo or I had pax on board. Do people keep track of “solo flight”? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman1200 Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, bradp said: 2) looking through my logbook there are some flight where I literally have no idea whether I was solo or I had pax on board. Do people keep track of “solo flight”? I kept track of the solo xc flights that I knew would qualify for the comm xc. otherwise it's not very important to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 The question of logging solo vs. PIC came up the other day... Most people ignore tracking being solo because it doesn’t make much sense... until you are trying to farm the specific data out of the existing logs... Most of my flight experience has been dragging family around... their words, not mine.... So out of the 1k+ hours in my logs very little of it was solo, until the kids were all grown up... hmmmmm. Time to live on the edge... solo, dark, TnGs.... wooohooooooo!!! I like how you can’t use a long runway to make two TnGs for each circuit around the pattern... We probably learn more legal documentation issues than we do actual flying issues... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 1 hour ago, carusoam said: Snip... I like how you can’t use a long runway to make two TnGs for each circuit around the pattern... LOL! My record is SIX at SBD (10,000 feet and before they had a tower). In a C-172, though. NOT a Mooney 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, bradp said: 1) I imagine that instrument instruction logged during IR would double count toward commercial 2) looking through my logbook there are some flight where I literally have no idea whether I was solo or I had pax on board. Do people keep track of “solo flight”? 1) the FAA has been interesting on this one due to a general dislike for double-dipping requirements. I can point to the two specific interpretations if you want, but the essence of them is that (a) the training for the instrument rating doesn't automatically count toward the commercial requirement (silly), but (b) it does if the CFI records it in a way which shows it does. Some CFIs have started including both 61.65 and 61.129 references in the text of their students' logbook comments, 2) this is a reason pilots who are aiming to ultimately get their commercial certificate either continue to log solo in a separate column or, since there are so few solo requirements, not the ones they want in the comments, I actually know a guy whose commercial checkride was discontinued because he couldn't point to his required solo events with "solo" indicated in some way in the logbook entries. (General rule: when it comes to meeting requirements, if it ain't logged it didn't happen.) Edited December 31, 2019 by midlifeflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, midlifeflyer said: General rule: when it comes to meeting requirements, if it ain't logged it didn't happen. General rule when dealing with any agency of the Federal government: if it isn't written down contemporaneously with the event, signed and dated, it didn't happen. I deal with this every day at work, with the requirements of a different 3-letter agency. Even if the results are clearly visible as having been done, if it ain't recorded and signed then it wasn't done. Edited December 31, 2019 by Hank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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