Passed a drone at 9000

[Browncbr1]

Going down to South Georgia at 9000, I saw traffic at 8575’ going opposite direction ahead on screen...  I asked ATC if they are talking to them; negative.  It was traveling at about 90kts, so I was looking for a small trainer or something.    Nope, a 6 prop drone passed and appeared to be following the interstate.   I let ATC know it was a drone and they were shocked.    Yikes!   I’ve seen drones before, but not that high and fast.  

[MooneyMitch]

I’ve encountered a party balloon at altitude.  A very strange visual experience!

Drones........I’m hoping the inevitable will not happen ! 

[Oldguy]

A friend in his J doing an approach into Cobb County (KRYY) in IMC and a 3' long yellow drone passes off the left wing about 1500' AGL. Nothing on ADS-B or seen by ATC. He notified ATC, but they knew nothing about it.

[jaylw314]

29 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

Going down to South Georgia at 9000, I saw traffic at 8575’ going opposite direction ahead on screen...  I asked ATC if they are talking to them; negative.  It was traveling at about 90kts, so I was looking for a small trainer or something.    Nope, a 6 prop drone passed and appeared to be following the interstate.   I let ATC know it was a drone and they were shocked.    Yikes!   I’ve seen drones before, but not that high and fast.  

Wow, I didn't think a hexacopter could get going at that speed at that altitude.  Since the props are fixed pitch I figured they'd lose performance quite severely at altitude...

[Browncbr1]

3 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Wow, I didn't think a hexacopter could get going at that speed at that altitude.  Since the props are fixed pitch I figured they'd lose performance quite severely at altitude...

Plus it was going along at 90kts!

[RogueOne]

That is very troubling.  Is this government?  If yes does anybody else have a problem with this?  Should this not be a HUGE deal to FAA if there are drones operating in airspace WELL ABOVE 400’AGL?  This is totally and completely UNACCEPTABLE.  Did you tell ATC or did ATC tell you there was traffic?

[bob865]

I wonder if this was ADS-B rebroadcast from a radar return or if the drone was broadcasting ads-b.  I'm thinking it had to be broadcasting since you saw altitude.  uAvionix makes ADS-B for drones:  https://uavionix.com/uas-2/#separate

@Browncbr1 Do you remember if the traffic displayed a tail number?  Any way to backtrack and identify this thing?

[Air pirate]

I'm all for shooting them down, hate those things. (unless its a predator or reaper over the middle east, I really like them  )

[Browncbr1]

48 minutes ago, RogueOne said:

That is very troubling.  Is this government?  If yes does anybody else have a problem with this?  Should this not be a HUGE deal to FAA if there are drones operating in airspace WELL ABOVE 400’AGL?  This is totally and completely UNACCEPTABLE.  Did you tell ATC or did ATC tell you there was traffic?

Yea I told ATC and gave them the tail number.  I can’t remember the number though.  

[Browncbr1]

41 minutes ago, bob865 said:

I wonder if this was ADS-B rebroadcast from a radar return or if the drone was broadcasting ads-b.  I'm thinking it had to be broadcasting since you saw altitude.  uAvionix makes ADS-B for drones:  https://uavionix.com/uas-2/#separate

@Browncbr1 Do you remember if the traffic displayed a tail number?  Any way to backtrack and identify this thing?

Yea it had a tail number and ATC saw it too.  Can’t remember the tail number though.  

It was right along that section of interstate between Commerce, GA and Athens, GA

i think I was talking to Atlanta approach 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Browncbr1

[RogueOne]

So we have Unmanned aerial drones in U.S. that are flying above 400’AGL.  Is this O.K. With everybody that flies aircraft?  By what authority is this authorized?  I have a HUGE problem with this.  If it is in restricted airspace, NO worries.  Above an interstate in airspace occupied by private aircraft and commercial traffic?  Hell to the NO!  This is outside UAV guidelines.  I don’t care if it was reporting ADSB Out and was being monitored by ATC.  NOT COOL!

[bob865]

16 minutes ago, RogueOne said:

So we have Unmanned aerial drones in U.S. that are flying above 400’AGL.  Is this O.K. With everybody that flies aircraft?  By what authority is this authorized?  I have a HUGE problem with this.  If it is in restricted airspace, NO worries.  Above an interstate in airspace occupied by private aircraft and commercial traffic?  Hell to the NO!  This is outside UAV guidelines.  I don’t care if it was reporting ADSB Out and was being monitored by ATC.  NOT COOL!

I'm not cool with it.  That's why I asked if there was a tail number.  I would love to have some more info.  I'd like to know what it was, where it was going, and on who's authority.  See an avoid really needs both people looking.  Not just the one with a pilot. 

Sorry for all the questions @Browncbr1 but did you file a nasa report?  I don't know that it is the right avenue, but seems like this for sure needs to be documented, somewhere.

[Bolter]

54 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

Yea it had a tail number and ATC saw it too.  Can’t remember the tail number though.  

It was right along that section of interstate between Commerce, GA and Athens, GA

i think I was talking to Atlanta approach 

If it was broadcasting ADS-B, then it should be on Flightradar24.  Can you go to where you saw it, then follow it to its takeoff or landing spot?

The police are using drones to watch the cities and citizens.  I am not aware of any admitted using at 9000' but they are capable.  Look at the spec sheet for the Matrice, a common Police drone (2500 meters or even 4500 meters w/ special props).  

https://www.dji.com/matrice600-pro/info#specs 

It does not list 90mph speeds, however.   

[DualRatedFlyer]

52 minutes ago, RogueOne said:

So we have Unmanned aerial drones in U.S. that are flying above 400’AGL.  Is this O.K. With everybody that flies aircraft?  By what authority is this authorized?  I have a HUGE problem with this.  If it is in restricted airspace, NO worries.  Above an interstate in airspace occupied by private aircraft and commercial traffic?  Hell to the NO!  This is outside UAV guidelines.  I don’t care if it was reporting ADSB Out and was being monitored by ATC.  NOT COOL!

Just chiming in to say this is not outside UAV guidelines. Is true for certain Part 107 ops, but not for other operations. 

This is just the tip of the iceberg

[slowflyin]

Unmanned systems can fly in the NAS above 400 feet AGL via a Certificate of Authorization (COA) from the FAA.  COA ops are part 91 operations and can have all kinds of limitations.   Most all share two requirements relevant to this topic.   First, the operator and/or his visual observer must maintain a visual at all times.  This is for traffic avoidance.   If he can't see the UAS and ventures beyond visual line of site (VBLOS) a chase plane is required.    Second, I've never seen a COA without an associated notam.  

For public use COAs, as opposed to DoD, the operators are certificated pilots; traditional manned aviators.   The DoD entities I'm familiar with don't require a private pilot cert but instead stand up their operation utilizing their own DoD cert.   

For a UAS at 9000, in the NAS, there should be a NOTAM on file and a manned AC flying formation.  UAS of that caliber typically squawk a code and are ADSB equipped.   Coms with the controlling authority is required as well. This isn't your Amazon Drone.   9000 generally warrants a fixed wing airframe.   Having six props makes me think hobbyist out of his lane.  

When done properly:

1. UAS is squawking a discrete code that they can change on the fly.
2. Pilot is a manned aviator
3. Pilot has coms with ATC and is flying his last clearance.
4. A chase pilot calls out any Non participating traffic that ATC can't see.  On the East coast this never happens as we have radar coverage everywhere.

It's like flying an IFR flight plan under the hood with someone flying formation.   

All that being said, an idiot flying a multirotor at 9000, in the NAS, without a COA, without traffic avoidance is WRONG.  

 

[tigers2007]

Well I'd consider putting this encounter down on paper: https://hotline.faa.gov/

 

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, DualRatedFlyer said:

Just chiming in to say this is not outside UAV guidelines. Is true for certain Part 107 ops, but not for other operations. 

This is just the tip of the iceberg

 

 

Yup.   Better get used to it, as it's going to happen more and more often.    It's not unlike spotting any other traffic out there.   A lot of the traffic I spot may as well be unpiloted, so I don't really see much difference.   A UAV operator will likely have more awareness of the space than many pilots do in manned aircraft.    IMHO this is Yet Another Reason to have ADS-B-out (and -in!), so operators can avoid you more easily.
 

1 hour ago, slowflyin said:

Unmanned systems can fly in the NAS above 400 feet AGL via a Certificate of Authorization (COA) from the FAA.  COA ops are part 91 operations and can have all kinds of limitations.   Most all share two requirements relevant to this topic.   First, the operator and/or his visual observer must maintain a visual at all times.  This is for traffic avoidance.   If he can't see the UAS and ventures beyond visual line of site (VBLOS) a chase plane is required.    Second, I've never seen a COA without an associated notam.  

I don't know how it is in the rest of the country, but we get these NOTAMs all the time.   We also have several restricted areas where drones operate regularly, and they've been more active lately than I've seen them in the past.    One of the CAPs regular reported missions these days is operating as chase aircraft for drones.  

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by EricJ

[Browncbr1]

3 hours ago, bob865 said:

I'm not cool with it.  That's why I asked if there was a tail number.  I would love to have some more info.  I'd like to know what it was, where it was going, and on who's authority.  See an avoid really needs both people looking.  Not just the one with a pilot. 

Sorry for all the questions @Browncbr1 but did you file a nasa report?  I don't know that it is the right avenue, but seems like this for sure needs to be documented, somewhere.

I didn’t file a nasa and unfortunately didn’t think to record the tail number or anything.  If I see one again, I’ll definitely do better documenting and ask ATC to take action.  

[DualRatedFlyer]

1 minute ago, Browncbr1 said:

I didn’t file a nasa and unfortunately didn’t think to record the tail number or anything.  If I see one again, I’ll definitely do better documenting and ask ATC to take action.  

Look up your atc convo on liveatc.net and get the tail number. 

[Browncbr1]

Just now, DualRatedFlyer said:

Look up your atc convo on liveatc.net and get the tail number. 

I’ll try, there are a lot of frequency changes through that area, but I’m pretty sure I was on ATL app just north of Athens. 

[EricJ]

A relevant recent article:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/mq-9b-to-demonstrate-national-airspace-flight-above-461326/

 

[Browncbr1]

So, I am a little embarrassed, but I had mistaken the location where I saw this drone.   I had flown many legs in two different planes last week and they all ran together.   In fact, I saw this drone over a stretch of I-26 southeast of Greenville, SC just east of KLUX.   I was on flight plan leg from ZPPLN to BUBBA at 9000 and saw it here in the screenshot.    The flight was : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N9564M/history/20190929/1821Z/KTYS/KCRE

i must have been talking to Greer approach.   I tried listening on ATC live, but didn’t have time to keep trying   If anyone has time, please help me find the recording.   I said, “I’m telling you that was a drone” and the controller said “Wow!”   Just before that exchange, I recall communications about the tail number.   

 

[DualRatedFlyer]

1 hour ago, Browncbr1 said:

So, I am a little embarrassed, but I had mistaken the location where I saw this drone.   I had flown many legs in two different planes last week and they all ran together.   In fact, I saw this drone over a stretch of I-26 southeast of Greenville, SC just east of KLUX.   I was on flight plan leg from ZPPLN to BUBBA at 9000 and saw it here in the screenshot.    The flight was : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N9564M/history/20190929/1821Z/KTYS/KCRE

i must have been talking to Greer approach.   I tried listening on ATC live, but didn’t have time to keep trying   If anyone has time, please help me find the recording.   I said, “I’m telling you that was a drone” and the controller said “Wow!”   Just before that exchange, I recall communications about the tail number.   

 

So I had our ATC guy use his Flight Radar 24 account to track your flight.  The paid version gives you access to historical data that the free version does not.  We tracked your flight the whole way until just around LUX.  Thats when a chunk of missing data starts, and it does not resume until after BUBBA.  Very interesting...

[RogueOne]

Interesting is one way to describe. I do not believe in coincidences. 

[Yetti]

Seeing a note about the FAA banning models above 400 feet