Because I have more money than cents (sort of) - ultralight aircraft purchase

[Mark89114]

I love my Mooney for traveling and that is how I use it....average leg length is probably 3+ hours, I want to get back to aviating.  The ultralight “type” airplanes, low and slow is something I have an interest in doing.  My interest was piqued by the endless YouTube videos and a recent Craigslist ad in the aviation section (yes CL now has an aviation segment).  That airplane was a 2 seater, semi cockpit contraption, upon further investigation it doesn’t have N number and apparently a lot of them aren’t legal as they exceed the weight limit, the legalities escape me as I haven’t done the appropriate research, just starting.  Hopefully, someone on here with the common sense to own a Mooney has looked into this before and can give me some high level advice.  

[thinwing]

Ok..I have had 2 engine flame outs in 40 years...both in a Kawasaki powered and Rotax powered ultra light.They decelerate instantly and glide like brick...last one cost me 12=stiches and the wife made me walk away from my ultralight partnership.

[RogueOne]

Do a Citabria instead.  Tailwheel fun, Arm out slow or light acro.  A “real” engine out front.

[RLCarter]

I know of 2 or 3 down in my neck of the woods that they cant do anything with because of not having and can't get the proper paper work so do your homework if there isn't an "N" number. If i were looking for a second plane just to go local or short hops I would get a 2 seater in either a Certified or Experimental, plenty to choose from and they are cheap to fly 

[carusoam]

MSers have a few alternate aviation devices... aside from the work related birds...

there are Lancairs, biplanes, sea planes, and a really cool gyrocopter around here somewhere...

There is even a group of people that have Mooney M10 mites...  now that is ultralight, real engine, and Mooney efficient cool... 

Sorry, that probably didn’t help with the cents sense....

Best regards,

-a-

[ilovecornfields]

I tried flying an ultralight because I was too young to solo a “real” airplane and I think the minimum age on ultralights was less restrictive. On my first flight we did engine out landings (“instructor” turned off the ignition and prop stopped in about 2 seconds), short field landings, touch and goes, etc. After that flight, I decided I gliders were safer and did my solo in a glider instead.

Have you ever flown a helicopter? That’s what I would do if I had extra aviation time and money. 

[Shadrach]

I have seen several folks come to greif in ultralights. I second the tail wheel recommendation. Given that you’ve pulled the trigger already, I hope you are able to find a person or persons that can help you properly assess your purchase.  I would not embark on the “how hard can it be?” approach. You’ve know idea how [un]forgiving your new might be.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Shadrach

[whiskytango]

I owned a Rotec Rally ultralight in the 1980s.  The best advice I was given is that until you understand the flight characteristics, don't fly higher than you want to fall.  The high thrust line meant that if the engine quits (which it did a lot) you must aggressively push forward on the stick to avoid a stall.  Wear a helmet!  That spinning prop is a few feet behind your head.  I agree with the recommendation to get a tailwheel Citabria (or Cub) rather than an ultralight.

[DAVIDWH]

This post is a bit confusing for me.

I thought the purpose in purchasing an aircraft is get there fast.  Ie. MOONEY

If just looking for some excitement, I would recommend a Bellanca Viking. That wooden Sitka Spruce Spar will outturn a P51 at low altitudes.

If looking to just spend $$, you can purchase diamonds for your significant other at almost any jewelry store.

Would seriously consider a few hours of psychiatric counseling before purchase of any ultralight.

One of the locals was overturned by a relatively light gust on his first solo. He put it up for sale and never attempted another flight.

Just be careful out there.

 

 

 

[tigers2007]

The best advice I was given is that until you understand the flight characteristics, don't fly higher than you want to fall.

I did just that when I co-worker of mine found out I was a pilot and wanted me to look over this goofy ultralight on floats he had just bought. I got to his house on the St Marys river and it was the most unsafe contraption I have ever seen. The fabric had zero give and everything was corroded from sitting outdoors for years. He was proud of the ballistic parachute until I pointed out that the safety pin was frozen into place.
I just had to fly this thing...
He handed me an old hockey helmet to wear and helped me strap in. My only concern was it capsizing and me getting entangled in the mess of m aircraft it was. I taxied out and punched the throttle. Got about three feet over the water, straight line, and put it back down. Was some of the most thrilling flying I’ve ever done in my life.


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[steingar]

There are ultralights, which are one seat, can't recall the weight limit.  A while back folks started building two-seat derivatives of these, so-called "fat ultralights".  The idea was they were for training, so a smaller number of ultralight pilots would go out and kill themselves.  Unfortunately folks started flying the things around for purposes other than instruction, and the FAA stepped in and came up with Sport Pilot rules.  That's what they're for, by the way.  Any two seat "Ultralight" is actually a Light Sport aircraft.  They require an N number and a Sport Pilot's license to fly.

Ultralights used to be hideously dangerous, both  because of the lack of training and the inherent undependability of the engines.  I think they've come a long way since then.  Of course if you have the coin the Light Sport "fat ultralights" can be had for coin.  Most sport Rotax engines and aircraft parts, but they cost.

Says me you can throttle back your Mooney go fly some of your local airports for fun.  It is still and airplane, albeit a rather heavy one.

[RogueOne]

1 hour ago, tigers2007 said:

 

I did just that when I co-worker of mine found out I was a pilot and wanted me to look over this goofy ultralight on floats he had just bought. I got to his house on the St Marys river and it was the most unsafe contraption I have ever seen. The fabric had zero give and everything was corroded from sitting outdoors for years. He was proud of the ballistic parachute until I pointed out that the safety pin was frozen into place.
I just had to fly this thing...
He handed me an old hockey helmet to wear and helped me strap in. My only concern was it capsizing and me getting entangled in the mess of m aircraft it was. I taxied out and punched the throttle. Got about three feet over the water, straight line, and put it back down. Was some of the most thrilling flying I’ve ever done in my life.


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Seems a tad sketchy...

Nothing like the fear of death to release endorphins and feel thrilled.

Glad it worked out.

[gsxrpilot]

This is the most fun I've ever had in the sky. The Moyes Bailey Dragonfly. It looks like a Quicksilver but is much different. I've got several hours in a few of these, solo. They are unbreakable and just too much fun to fly. The purpose for them is to tow hang gliders to altitude. So I've done a bit of that as well. A little over a hundred cross country hours in hang gliders.

The grey haired gentleman in this clip is Bill Bailey who designed this aircraft. There are now several hundred of these towing hang gliders all over the world.

 

 

[RogueOne]

4 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

This is the most fun I've ever had in the sky. The Moyes Bailey Dragonfly. It looks like a Quicksilver but is much different. I've got several hours in a few of these, solo. They are unbreakable and just too much fun to fly. The purpose for them is to tow hang gliders to altitude. So I've done a bit of that as well. A little over a hundred cross country hours in hang gliders.

The grey haired gentleman in this clip is Bill Bailey who designed this aircraft. There are now several hundred of these towing hang gliders all over the world.

 

 

I love the song on that video.  Paul, Paul, Paul.  That Jose Cuervo most interesting man is a dullard compared to your pursuits.  Stay “unbored” my friend.  

 

[RogueOne]

6 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

This is the most fun I've ever had in the sky. The Moyes Bailey Dragonfly. It looks like a Quicksilver but is much different. I've got several hours in a few of these, solo. They are unbreakable and just too much fun to fly. The purpose for them is to tow hang gliders to altitude. So I've done a bit of that as well. A little over a hundred cross country hours in hang gliders.

The grey haired gentleman in this clip is Bill Bailey who designed this aircraft. There are now several hundred of these towing hang gliders all over the world.

 

 

Watched a really good documentary called “Free Solo”.  Guy climbed El Cap with no ropes/safety.  Simply amazing.  At one point he had an MRI and they showed him hundreds of photos.  NOTHING stimulated his cortex.  Guy doesn’t experience fear on the level of most.  Except Paul.  Paul and he are kindred souls.  

Quietly cheering from afar and hoping all continues to go well...

Great video.

Love me some suit video.  Have you ever skydived-in one of those Paul?

That looks terrifying AND awesome at the same time.

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, RogueOne said:

Watched a really good documentary called “Free Solo”.  Guy climbed El Cap with no ropes/safety.  Simply amazing.  At one point he had an MRI and they showed him hundreds of photos.  NOTHING stimulated his cortex.  Guy doesn’t experience fear on the level of most.  Except Paul.  Paul and he are kindred souls.  

LOL, I've been told that before that I'm missing the gene or something that recognizes fear. But I really do have my limits. For example I always use a rope when rock climbing.

I've never skydived in a wing suit. In fact, I've only been skydiving once. It took me a while to find a school that would allow me to skydive from altitude, with free fall, without first doing a tandem skydive. And a tandem "ride" seemed like a waste of time for me. But I found one, spent a day going through the classes, strapped on the rig and went to 13,500 and jumped out. To be fair, two instructors jumped with me and helped me get stable in the free fall before backing away and leaving me on my own to get back to the drop zone. It worked out just fine. But I decided the effort wasn't worth the 3 to 5 minutes of the experience. Flying airplanes and especially hang gliders can give one the same sensation of flying and it lasts for hours, not just a few short minutes. So I haven't jumped since.

I first learned to fly paragliders but they have a much narrower wind and turbulence envelope than hang gliders and so to me hang gliders are safer. So then it was hang gliders. And really because I couldn't afford to fly GA at the time. But there's nothing quite like launching off a 500 ft hill and climbing out to 10,000+ ft in a hang glider. The thermals are quite rowdy near the ground but get smoother the higher you go. Sometimes climbing at over 1000 ft/min. It's quite a ride.

A pilot's gotta fly.

[tigers2007]

Look up the “Legal Eagle”. You can build one for like $5000. Or just buy one for $4-7k. They look very fun to fly. Extremely simple.


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[RogueOne]

10 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

LOL, I've been told that before that I'm missing the gene or something that recognizes fear. But I really do have my limits. For example I always use a rope when rock climbing.

I've never skydived in a wing suit. In fact, I've only been skydiving once. It took me a while to find a school that would allow me to skydive from altitude, with free fall, without first doing a tandem skydive. And a tandem "ride" seemed like a waste of time for me. But I found one, spent a day going through the classes, strapped on the rig and went to 13,500 and jumped out. To be fair, two instructors jumped with me and helped me get stable in the free fall before backing away and leaving me on my own to get back to the drop zone. It worked out just fine. But I decided the effort wasn't worth the 3 to 5 minutes of the experience. Flying airplanes and especially hang gliders can give one the same sensation of flying and it lasts for hours, not just a few short minutes. So I haven't jumped since.

I first learned to fly paragliders but they have a much narrower wind and turbulence envelope than hang gliders and so to me hang gliders are safer. So then it was hang gliders. And really because I couldn't afford to fly GA at the time. But there's nothing quite like launching off a 500 ft hill and climbing out to 10,000+ ft in a hang glider. The thermals are quite rowdy near the ground but get smoother the higher you go. Sometimes climbing at over 1000 ft/min. It's quite a ride.

A pilot's gotta fly.

Great post!  There were a lot of Paragliders in Europe around peaks.  I spent some time just watching them and thinking “DAMN, they have the best view”.  The views from ground and on exiting the fernicular.  From the air they must of been spectacular!

[tigers2007]

This is the most fun I've ever had in the sky. The Moyes Bailey Dragonfly.

Paul I want that now because of two reasons: 1. That Bailey guy seems to have proven the structural soundness of the frame. Intentional flat spins? Yup why not. 2. I’ll have a waiting list of babes waiting to fly.
Flat spins with a buxom babe? Priceless.

Until the wife finds out... then it costs millions...


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[thinwing]

That “Bailey”design looks very simular to the Phantom ultralight I was partner in.At least it had a fiberglass nose cone to act as windscreen and sort protect the legs while crashing thru a barb wire fence

[1964-M20E]

Neat video and looks like fun..  However, I feel the need for rotors.  Helicopter baby. 

[Niko182]

Id say J-3, champ, or chief. Nothing will get you the basics of flying like those things. I like the j3 more personally because of the

Door, but its like beating a dead horse. J3 vs champ has been debated so many times.

[carusoam]

Apparently, you would need more money... and less sense...

As I just looked up prices of J3 cubs...

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?make=PIPER&model=J-3+CUB&s-type=aircraft

It would need indoor storage to maintain its niceness...

Insurance probably is terrible because the lives you put inside of it don’t get less expensive in a tail wheel...

Hurry buy one, or join a club that has one...   (this would be extra cool...)

But... if you have way more money... some MSer has one of these around here somewhere near NJ... they have posted some nice videos before...

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?make=CUBCRAFTERS&s-type=aircraft

Best regards,

-a-