Oxygen: Mountain High vs. Precise Flight

[kortopates]

Does anyone fly with an Aerox mask below 18K to keep their O2 up? I am another one that needs to actively breath to keep my saturation levels up. I was thinking when I fly in the mid teens this would help. Im going to first try this wearable pulse oximeter that I ordered which has a vibrating alarm. You can set your alarm limit via the app and monitor yourself as well. 
https://www.viatomtech.com/sleep-o2

I use the mask anytime I expect to go above 16.5K'. Above that I have to have a higher flow on the oxysaver cannula than I need on the mask to keep saturated in the 90's


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[kmyfm20s]

I received this today and it is pretty impressive! You can set the alarm to vibrate at the saturation level you desire. The app on you phone stays open for constant monitoring and keeps your history. I think it’s a must have for high flyers and well worth the money!!

https://www.viatomtech.com/sleep-o2

[kortopates]

The link doesn't include ordering one - just reserving one and no mention of price. How long is the wait and cost?

 

 

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[kmyfm20s]

I order it on Amazon.  I tried to copy the link but I’m having difficulty. It is $120 and took a day to receive.

Edited September 29, 2019 by kmyfm20s

[kortopates]

1 minute ago, kmyfm20s said:

I order it on Amazon.  I tried to copy the link but I’m having difficulty. It is $120 and took a day to receive.

thanks, I am sure I can find it. Much more affordable than I was thinking too

[carusoam]

+1 actively monitoring O2 saturation all the time...

+1 for not having to find the device and take the time to get the reading...

+1 for reviewing the data afterwards to see if there are any surprises that occur in the data that aren’t noticed in the flight...

+1 for alarms...

Lack of O2 in the flight levels is a real challenge... hard to recognize.... leaks back at the tank have happened in flight draining the bottle without telling the pilot...

Good to have a plan B bottle near by...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

14 hours ago, carusoam said:

leaks back at the tank have happened in flight draining the bottle without telling the pilot...

Do you actually remember anyone reporting a leak draining the bottle in flight? Usually the main "leaks" we see are the regulator failing to actually close all the way, allowing the O2 to leak out over days draining the tank before the next flight - but no leakage in flight while using O2. This would be true for any low pressure leak. Only a high pressure leak would cause a significant loss in flight, but such a leak would be constant (not just in flight). If major it should be audible during the preflight, and if more common slow leak it would take hours if not days to drain a tank. A leak draining a tank in flight is highly unlikely even if popped in flight, which is why I ask. Although anything can happen this would be very rare which makes me curious. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by kortopates

[exM20K]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Do you actually remember anyone reporting a leak draining the bottle in flight? Usually the main "leaks" we see are the regulator failing to actually close all the way, allowing the O2 to leak out over days draining the tank before the next flight - but no leakage in flight while using O2. This would be true for any low pressure leak. Only a high pressure leak would cause a significant loss in flight, but such a leak would be constant (not just in flight). If major it should be audible during the preflight, and if more common slow leak it would take hours if not days to drain a tank. A leak draining a tank in flight is highly unlikely even if popped in flight, which is why I ask. Although anything can happen this would be very rare which makes me curious. 

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20150910X75635&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=LA

This is the fatality in a M20TN going to PPP.  Was discussed at Mooney Summit.

During an examination of the oxygen system on the airplane, a fitting, which connected an oxygen line to a regulator on the tank, was found loose and could be moved in both directions by hand without resistance. The oxygen system was serviced with oxygen 5 flight hours before the accident and had a capacity of at least 11 hours of oxygen for pilot-only operations; however, it is likely that the loose oxygen line allowed oxygen to escape and drained the oxygen canister more quickly than the pilot expected. Therefore, although the pilot was found wearing an oxygen mask, given the high altitude the airplane was at for the duration of the flight, the pilot's failure to respond to controller contact, and evidence indicating that he would have had reduced availability of supplemental oxygen, it is likely that the pilot became incapacitated due to hypoxia. The airplane's continued flight at 25,000 ft msl and its descent profile were consistent with the airplane operating under autopilot control and then descending to water impact due to fuel starvation.

 

-dan

 

 

[exM20K]

15 hours ago, carusoam said:

Good to have a plan B bottle near by...

I have one of these and hope never to have to use it.  it rides in the map pocket by my feet.

-dan

[kortopates]

4 minutes ago, exM20K said:

I have one of these and hope never to have to use it.  it rides in the map pocket by my feet.

-dan

Exactly what I use and recommend.

[alextstone]

Does anyone fly with an Aerox mask below 18K to keep their O2 up? I am another one that needs to actively breath to keep my saturation levels up. I was thinking when I fly in the mid teens this would help. Im going to first try this wearable pulse oximeter that I ordered which has a vibrating alarm. You can set your alarm limit via the app and monitor yourself as well. 
https://www.viatomtech.com/sleep-o2

Yes, I wear a mask over 15k feet. It's the only way I've found that I can achieve the desired result. Once I figured out how to wear the mask comfortably, it became no big deal. Years ago, I was placed into a medically induced coma for three weeks in order to save my life during a bout of pneumonia... My lungs just aren't as effective as they once were. The moral of the story is:. Do what's safe for YOUR body, regardless of what you read online, your age, health status, etc.

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[kortopates]

24 minutes ago, exM20K said:

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20150910X75635&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=LA

This is the fatality in a M20TN going to PPP.  Was discussed at Mooney Summit.

During an examination of the oxygen system on the airplane, a fitting, which connected an oxygen line to a regulator on the tank, was found loose and could be moved in both directions by hand without resistance. The oxygen system was serviced with oxygen 5 flight hours before the accident and had a capacity of at least 11 hours of oxygen for pilot-only operations; however, it is likely that the loose oxygen line allowed oxygen to escape and drained the oxygen canister more quickly than the pilot expected. Therefore, although the pilot was found wearing an oxygen mask, given the high altitude the airplane was at for the duration of the flight, the pilot's failure to respond to controller contact, and evidence indicating that he would have had reduced availability of supplemental oxygen, it is likely that the pilot became incapacitated due to hypoxia. The airplane's continued flight at 25,000 ft msl and its descent profile were consistent with the airplane operating under autopilot control and then descending to water impact due to fuel starvation.

 

-dan

 

 

Thanks for recalling this one.

This would be a low pressure leak, leaking only when the pilot was using the system and would be a relatively slow leak. They mention there was 5 hours of fight time since filling but we don't know how much O2 time, if any, the pilot may have used on the system before the fatal flight. All we know is the pilot was unresponsive very early on in the flight, suggesting there wasn't much time if any remaining on the tank when he departed on the fatal flight. Since a slow leak like this should take hours to empty, I have to imagine the pilot wasn't noticing the O2 air pressure gauge at all; perhaps not even at takeoff since the tank must have already been very low and I would expect too low to support the ~3 hr trip he was planning. Bottom line, this couldn't have been a quick loss of O2 surprise to the pilot.

[JohnB]

I am surprised many times by checking my O2 saturation’s. Just last week I noticed a headache (my tell sign of hypoxia I learned from doing a hypoxia chamber training event) at 8,000 feet on a reasonably warm day. Put on my O2 sat meter and was at 88%! 

I previously used 9,000 feet as the point I’m putting on O2, as that was the number that trained fit Military pilots were tested and they were average 90%. Now I’m going to check at 7,000 and above so the vibrating sensor idea I really like. If anyone gets one, can you set the O2 sat you want an alert below? The viatomtec sensor sounds like a GREAT idea, and I’ll be shopping for one.  

BTW, I think everyone should do the hypoxia chamber, prote or other just to learn your early symptoms, different for everyone. 

[ilovecornfields]

53 minutes ago, JohnB said:

I am surprised many times by checking my O2 saturation’s. Just last week I noticed a headache (my tell sign of hypoxia I learned from doing a hypoxia chamber training event) at 8,000 feet on a reasonably warm day. Put on my O2 sat meter and was at 88%! 

I previously used 9,000 feet as the point I’m putting on O2, as that was the number that trained fit Military pilots were tested and they were average 90%. Now I’m going to check at 7,000 and above so the vibrating sensor idea I really like. If anyone gets one, can you set the O2 sat you want an alert below? The viatomtec sensor sounds like a GREAT idea, and I’ll be shopping for one.  

BTW, I think everyone should do the hypoxia chamber, prote or other just to learn your early symptoms, different for everyone. 

Agree. I have my O2D2 set to go on automatically at 5000’ (and off below 5k). This way if I forget to put it on or run out of oxygen it will start beeping at me. I’ve never run out of oxygen but I have forgotten to turn on the oxygen regulator and it sure gets annoying really quickly. It’s also nice because you don’t use any oxygen on the ground but you’re ready to go as soon as you get above 5000’.

[kmyfm20s]

5 hours ago, JohnB said:

I am surprised many times by checking my O2 saturation’s. Just last week I noticed a headache (my tell sign of hypoxia I learned from doing a hypoxia chamber training event) at 8,000 feet on a reasonably warm day. Put on my O2 sat meter and was at 88%! 

I previously used 9,000 feet as the point I’m putting on O2, as that was the number that trained fit Military pilots were tested and they were average 90%. Now I’m going to check at 7,000 and above so the vibrating sensor idea I really like. If anyone gets one, can you set the O2 sat you want an alert below? The viatomtec sensor sounds like a GREAT idea, and I’ll be shopping for one.  

BTW, I think everyone should do the hypoxia chamber, prote or other just to learn your early symptoms, different for everyone. 

I have been playing with Viatomtech a couple days now and it is really nice. You can set it to vibrate alarm to any saturation level to alert you. You can even set the intensity of the vibration. Factory default is 88% and I set mine to 92%. I also really like the App, it has a dashboard display that will stay open while your flying. I have my phone mounted in view in my plane so you can see at all times. It also tracks your history which is a nice feature so you can see how your saturation levels change through the flight. I highly recommend it so far!

[kortopates]

3 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

I have been playing with Viatomtech a couple days now and it is really nice. You can set it to vibrate alarm to any saturation level to alert you. You can even set the intensity of the vibration. Factory default is 88% and I set mine to 92%. I also really like the App, it has a dashboard display that will stay open while your flying. I have my phone mounted in view in my plane so you can see at all times. It also tracks your history which is a nice feature so you can see how your saturation levels change through the flight. I highly recommend it so far!

Mine is coming today. So far it sounds like a great safety enhancement for us.

[kortopates]

I got my Viatom O2 finger sensor today and started playing with it. It seems like a great unit, but one big concern. I hope someone can take it up to altitude, at least the upper teens but preferably the flight levels to verify how it does at altitude. The specs that came with the unit indicate a maximum operating altitude of just under 10K'. I hope that's not really true but needs to be confirmed. Has @kmyfm20s flown with it yet above 10K?  Don't know why it should matter given it works off of light absorption, but that's what they publish and I don't think they needed to publish anything.

[kmyfm20s]

4 hours ago, kortopates said:

I got my Viatom O2 finger sensor today and started playing with it. It seems like a great unit, but one big concern. I hope someone can take it up to altitude, at least the upper teens but preferably the flight levels to verify how it does at altitude. The specs that came with the unit indicate a maximum operating altitude of just under 10K'. I hope that's not really true but needs to be confirmed. Has @kmyfm20s flown with it yet above 10K?  Don't know why it should matter given it works off of light absorption, but that's what they publish and I don't think they needed to publish anything.

Darn I didn’t see that. I don’t know why it would be limited by altitude. Im going to call customer support to see what they say because my packaging got tossed so no looking back now:) I looked through and virtually all Pulse Oximeters show them for wellness use only and some list applications. I couldn’t pull up spec sheet on most. I’m flying today but will not get up past 10K.

There Wellue model list aviation and its $179 on their Viatom web site. This might be the better choice. 

[donkaye]

I carry 2 pulse oximeters.  One I hang on the prop control in clear sight.  I check the reading about every 10  minutes.  While these finger pulse oximeters seem like a good idea, wearing another  piece of hardware in addition to the cannulas is not very enticing to me.

[alextstone]

15 minutes ago, donkaye said:

I carry 2 pulse oximeters.  One I hang on the prop control in clear sight.  I check the reading about every 10  minutes.  While these finger pulse oximeters seem like a good idea, wearing another  piece of hardware in addition to the cannulas is not very enticing to me.

Don, I'm with you on this.  I have too many gadgets to keep up with as it is.

[kmyfm20s]

1 hour ago, donkaye said:

I carry 2 pulse oximeters.  One I hang on the prop control in clear sight.  I check the reading about every 10  minutes.  While these finger pulse oximeters seem like a good idea, wearing another  piece of hardware in addition to the cannulas is not very enticing to me.

It was interesting wearing it this morning. I tend to hold my breath a lot when I concentrate. I was surprised how often I momentarily dropped below 92%. I would only wear it once in cruise because it does interfere when your button pushing and knob turning during the busy phases of flight. These can be utilized just as the other pulse oximeter but the idea is that in a hypoxia situation you might nor be alert enough to check every 10 minutes and the alarm would be necessary. 

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, kmyfm20s said:

It was interesting wearing it this morning. I tend to hold my breath a lot when I concentrate. I was surprised how often I momentarily dropped below 92%. I would only wear it once in cruise because it does interfere when your button pushing and knob turning during the busy phases of flight. These can be utilized just as the other pulse oximeter but the idea is that in a hypoxia situation you might nor be alert enough to check every 10 minutes and the alarm would be necessary. 

I agree, and think it could be a lifesaver for those that fly high solo. That's very rare for me since my pilot wife accompanys me on almost all cross-country flying. Two pilots makes it very unlikely that one of us could go hypoxic without another alerting the hypoxic one and taking action. But we continue to see solo pilots flying in the flight levels not notice and not take action in time such as the event we have above. A device such as this has the potential to alert a solo pilot well before they are even in the danger zone. Personally I think everyone that flies solo in the flight levels owes it to themselves and their family to do something like this if they can. There might be other  better solutions, but this simple device (if it works up high) may be the best one I am aware of right now. 

[aviatoreb]

5 hours ago, kortopates said:

I agree, and think it could be a lifesaver for those that fly high solo. That's very rare for me since my pilot wife accompanys me on almost all cross-country flying. Two pilots makes it very unlikely that one of us could go hypoxic without another alerting the hypoxic one and taking action. But we continue to see solo pilots flying in the flight levels not notice and not take action in time such as the event we have above. A device such as this has the potential to alert a solo pilot well before they are even in the danger zone. Personally I think everyone that flies solo in the flight levels owes it to themselves and their family to do something like this if they can. There might be other  better solutions, but this simple device (if it works up high) may be the best one I am aware of right now. 

Sold - I’m getting one!

[kortopates]

So I tried contacting Viatom customer service yesterday to ask about the altitude limits. The rather ambiguous first response is below, I have not yet gotten a response on the follow-up email. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Kortopates 
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 5:26 PM
To: marketing@viatomtech.com
Subject: Re: New message via your website, from Kortopates

Most aircraft are pressurized to only 8,000 ft, to be clear I am asking specifically about upto 25,000 ft (unpressurized) or for example on top of Mt Everest? Is that okay too?

Thanks for your prompt response!

Paul 

---

From: marketing@viatomtech.com <marketing@viatomtech.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 5:17:20 PM
To: Paul Kortopates 
Subject: Re: New message via your website, from Kortopates

 

Dear Paul,

     Thank you for choosing SleepO2.

     SleepO2 can be used on aircraft, just wear it on the thumb or index finger to make it fit well.   

     For any further assistance please feel free to let us know.

     Viatom support team

marketing@viatomtech.com

 

From: no-reply

Date: 2019-10-02 07:55

To: marketing

Subject: New message via your website, from Kortopates@hotmail.com

Edited October 3, 2019 by kortopates
Initial paste of email was incomplete

[jaylw314]

On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 10:29 AM, kortopates said:

I agree, and think it could be a lifesaver for those that fly high solo. That's very rare for me since my pilot wife accompanys me on almost all cross-country flying. Two pilots makes it very unlikely that one of us could go hypoxic without another alerting the hypoxic one and taking action. But we continue to see solo pilots flying in the flight levels not notice and not take action in time such as the event we have above. A device such as this has the potential to alert a solo pilot well before they are even in the danger zone. Personally I think everyone that flies solo in the flight levels owes it to themselves and their family to do something like this if they can. There might be other  better solutions, but this simple device (if it works up high) may be the best one I am aware of right now. 

I dunno, have you ever been talking to your wife sitting next to you in the car, and then realize that she's been asleep for the past 10 minutes?