B&C Standby Alternator Field Approval

[Marauder]

Has anyone been successful in obtaining a field approval for a K or earlier model?

 

If so, could you PM me?

 

 

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[Ragsf15e]

Im interested in these too as I’m about to go all electric.  How does it tie into the electrical system?  Does it just cover alternator failure?  How many amps?

[takair]

I did a package for a guy in Europe for his TB-20.  Think he did a write up on the European Pilots forum.  My field approval was similar to one for a Mooney.  I had a copy of an old Mooney field approval but it was not in the modern format,  The most days difficult part is coordinating the approval of an airframe specific flight manual supplement.  Chris, sending PM.

[takair]

Some further info here with some pictures of the kit.  Some of it refers to European approval which is more difficult, but there is some performance data in here too.  Peter, the guy with the TB-20, has a well equipped plane, including recently adding TKS. He documents most of his work here or on his personal web site, including the TKS install, which was really interesting.  Too bad he didn’t have a Mooney, would be a great addition to Mooneyspace.

https://www.euroga.org/forums/maintenance-avionics/1049-standby-backup-alternator-for-the-tb20-and-other-types?page=14

.

[bradp]

Dorn did one for a guy from upstate Ny with a J. HW may have a copy of the data.  They had to design a standby circuit.  

[carusoam]

I spoke with the guy at B&C at KOSH this year...

Planning the long term outlook for my favorite O....

Need a Contact?

Best regards,

-a-

[Mooney in Oz]

4 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Im interested in these too as I’m about to go all electric.  How does it tie into the electrical system?  Does it just cover alternator failure?  How many amps?

I’ve had one in my 14 volt J for many years after I had the vac pump removed. It fits snug where the vac pump was and automatically activates in the event of a failure of the main alternator, providing 30 amps of power. I only had to use it once and that was after takeoff when the alternator belt failed and it was more than enough to extend the gear and flaps without having to reduce any load.

My mechanic used the Piper Lance STC, which was accepted by the Australian authorities.

He also replaced the HiLo Vac annunciator with a Stby Alt annunciator so it illuminates when activated otherwise you more than likely not know the main has failed immediately. It just takes over.

Well worth it in my opinion.

[81X]

I reached out to B&C last year for my K as I was going all electric.  They provided me with the attached 337 which appears that at least one M20K has been successful.  The write up on the 337 is very compelling (and common sense).  

Unfortunately for me, my speed brakes are vacuum actuated, and the conversion kit from vac to electric is a mere 6AMU, so for now, the B&C is out.  

337_BC410_Mooney_M20K_N44CG.pdf

[carusoam]

There are a few secondary vac systems coming available... electric motor + vac pump....

That would operate your vac powered speed brakes... and allow for a second alternator... it only turns on for a few moments...

Something to consider...

Best regards,

-a-

[J0nathan225]

I'm interested in this, pending AMU(s), for my E. It doesn't have a vacuum pump any longer and if a secondary bus isn't required install wouldn't be too crazy. 

[tigers2007]

Wow this thing is genius. Here is photo to visualize this for the non-imaginative types like me: (photo used without permission of the originator). What are we talking here price-wise?

 

[Marauder]

5 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

Wow this thing is genius. Here is photo to visualize this for the non-imaginative types like me: (photo used without permission of the originator). What are we talking here price-wise?
 

 

Certified versions for the Bonanza are in the 2.7 AMU range. I wonder if a certified version would be required for a field approval. The non-certified are in the .8 AMU range.


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Edited August 26, 2019 by Marauder

[J0nathan225]

.8? I hope

[tigers2007]

Spruce has this model for $499. I think that fits Rotax 912's though.

This one is $741 and is "for use on certified aircraft"

[Marauder]

Spruce has this model for $499. I think that fits Rotax 912's though.

This one is $741 and is "for use on certified aircraft"

Without an STC for the Mooney, it will come down to whether or not the field approval can be obtained. The BC-462-H is for homebuilts. Unlikely to get an approval for that to be installed.

For the certified planes, the best we can hope for is STC approved model, like this one for the Bonanza's, could be field approved. The range of prices is whether or not the regulator is included as well as the other options available (display, installation kit, etc.).

 

[tigers2007]

4X the cost? Better off finding a reasonable FSDO and have a good wordsmith write the 337.

[81X]

22 hours ago, carusoam said:

There are a few secondary vac systems coming available... electric motor + vac pump....

That would operate your vac powered speed brakes... and allow for a second alternator... it only turns on for a few moments...

Something to consider...

Best regards,

-a-

I saw a 231 in for annual when mine was in and they had the standby mounted to the exterior firewall.  I would strongly prefer it in the tail for balance, do you know what the factory location is for those?  

Related, anyone have one for sale?

Also, @J0nathan225, no secondary bus should be required but there is a secondary regulator and annunciations on the k in the field approval I attached above- check that out. 

 

[EricJ]

I ran across the article linked below.   It's old, from 2013, but may be useful:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/may/pilot/this-mooney-is-out-of-air

 

[Steve W]

1 hour ago, 81X said:

I saw a 231 in for annual when mine was in and they had the standby mounted to the exterior firewall.  I would strongly prefer it in the tail for balance, do you know what the factory location is for those?  

My 1994 M20J has it in the back next to the battery. It's HUGE... ok, not huge, but I'm not sure how you'd fit it anywhere else. I mean it's a vacuum pump, coupler, electric motor and frame.

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, 81X said:

I saw a 231 in for annual when mine was in and they had the standby mounted to the exterior firewall.  I would strongly prefer it in the tail for balance, do you know what the factory location is for those?  

Related, anyone have one for sale?

Yeah, I've got one. It came out of the tail of my 252. 

[EricJ]

11 minutes ago, Steve W said:

My 1994 M20J has it in the back next to the battery. It's HUGE... ok, not huge, but I'm not sure how you'd fit it anywhere else. I mean it's a vacuum pump, coupler, electric motor and frame.

I'd think it wouldn't be that tough to make an accumulator that charges when the MP is 5-6" below ambient, or even just dumps at high altitude or something, and then has that vacuum available for lower descents and approaches to pop the brake up if needed.   Might only give you a few deployments, but would be a pretty simple system with minimal draw on resources.

Just a thot.

 

[carusoam]

2 hours ago, 81X said:

I saw a 231 in for annual when mine was in and they had the standby mounted to the exterior firewall.  I would strongly prefer it in the tail for balance, do you know what the factory location is for those?  

 

I believe all the Long Bodies got the alternate vac system mounted in the tail...  and electric speed brakes.

It sits next to the Charley weights...

So... anyone going all electric with a Long Body May have the alt vac system come available...

Best regards,

-a-

[PeytonM]

I was going to start another thread, but this one is sufficiently close. My airplane will soon be all-electric. Is there any update on STC for standby alternator for 28 volt M20J on engine where vacuum pump was? 

[Marauder]

I was going to start another thread, but this one is sufficiently close. My airplane will soon be all-electric. Is there any update on STC for standby alternator for 28 volt M20J on engine where vacuum pump was? 

When I converted my plane to all electric in 2017, I looked at the B&C standby alternator for my F. As you pointed out, it sits on the vacuum pump pad. There is no STC for our Mooneys. Another Mooniac helped me look at the field approval process but the likelihood of getting it approved through my FSDO was on par with stopping the Earth’s rotation.

If you want to pursue the STC route, I may be able to find the communications I had with B&C. I think there is an interest, but unless they have enough interest, it is unlikely they would develop the STC.

As for the field approval process, the person who provided me the information is on this site and hopefully will share the information he provided me. He asked me not to do so.


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[carusoam]

Let’s invite one of our STC writers to the conversation… @takair

out with the vacuum, in with the spare B&C alternator….

-a-