A certain flavor of “hero”

[DXB]

This is making its way around the internet. Cirrus instructor decides to fly formation with Arrow pilot with engine problem and offer unsolicited advice.  I am speechless and thus will refrain from further comment.

 

 

 

[KSMooniac]

That cirrus driver is a self-important, unhelpful jackass. I would've punched him in the face after securing the plane. Un-invited and un-briefed formation flight during an emergency? Unsolicited instruction? No thanks.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[ilovecornfields]

27 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

That cirrus driver is a self-important, unhelpful jackass. I would've punched him in the face after securing the plane. Un-invited and un-briefed formation flight during an emergency? Unsolicited instruction? No thanks.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

I couldn’t have said it better myself!

[toto]

This guy has seen the "Cougar" scene from Top Gun one too many times. 

[RLCarter]

The video seems to be taken down, I had watched it when 1st posted and I didn't see it the way you all did. The video is the last few minutes of a pilot having trouble and another pilot who is more than likely a CFI talking him through the issue. No where in the video does it mention the 2nd pilot was uninvited or that he had not been talking to the 1st pilot long before the camera was rolling. Personally I would like to hear the whole story (ATC recordings and the other pilots side) before I start slamming the guy. And as far as formation flying, he was high, to the right and behind the  troubled aircraft, that keeps him out of view so not to add any distraction to the pilot which already has his hands full. 

[wcb]

Video down.  I wanted to watch that one too. 

[Spurious Moppet]

That guy has some other videos that make him look maybe a little bit toolish... For example: 

 

and:

 

[RLCarter]

Just watched all 3 videos again (original is back up), maybe those above could give some insight on their opinions 

[bob865]

I'm with @RLCarter, I don't see anything in the video that says this was a bad thing.  The video starts out with the cirrus talking to tower about taking off and intercepting.  It sounds a lot like this was planned and coordinated prior to his departure.  Myabe he was doing a runup and heard the trouble and offered a second set of eyes or maybe the pilot in trouble requested it.  You can't say.  We just don't know.  Regardess of the condition, he didn't just sneak up on a pilot in distress and start ordering him around and he didn't just start flying formation unannounced or without the pilot's consent.  Either way, it looks to me like it was executed well based on what we can prove from the video.  He sounded like, from the way he talked with ATC, hat he was a local and everyone knew each other.  That's the way it is at my home field.  All the CFIs fly so much the controllers know them.  Playing devil's advocate here but, for all we know, the controller called the flight school and asked for help and he offered to fly along side and provide some coaching.

With all that said, would I takeoff and fly formation with a struggling pilot?  No.  Would I request another pilot to fly along side for coaching if I were struggling?  No.  Would I turn it down if it was offered and convenient for both of us?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  You never know, it might not be a bad idea to have someone behind me watching to make sure gear down and flaps down etc while I'm task saturated with a struggling engine to help make sure I don't accidentally have a gear up or overrun the runway too. 

Just my thoughts.

[Davidv]

1 hour ago, Frozen Flying said:

That guy has some other videos that make him look maybe a little bit toolish... For example: 

 

and:

 

So on the solo flight video he’s flying at looks like slow flight over an airport while using his phone in one hand to video? Did I miss something here?

glad this guy has a chute.

[201er]

22 minutes ago, Davidv said:

glad this guy has a chute.

Not like it’s gonna help 50ft off the ground...

[steingar]

Telling the Arrow pilot to suck up the gear in the pattern sounded like really poor unsolicited advice.  Joining up with him in unbriefed formation seemed unwise in the extreme.  Way to turn a non emergency into one.  If the Arrow pilot was shaky, if he didn't know what he was doing or asking for help then the Cirrus guy's a hero.  The Arrow pilot sounded calm, cool and collected, and sounded from his radio calls like he had the situation well under control.  That makes the  Cirrus pilot the worst kind self important tool.  Perhaps I'm wrong, I admit I haven't all the facts. Just seems who it is based on the video.

[Davidv]

2 minutes ago, 201er said:

Not like it’s gonna help 50ft off the ground...

Ha yes, there was some sarcasm in my answer.  

[201er]

“Comments are disabled for this video”

Couldn’t imagine why...

[ilovecornfields]

He has quite a following on POA...

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/just-wow.119673/page-2#post-2749345

[flight2000]

Here's the recording - skip to roughly the 22:08 minute mark for the first call from the Arrow.

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kb...2019-1500Z.mp3

The Arrow pilot seemed to be in complete control to me.  A simple event turned into a show for our "hero" instructor.

*Edited to add:  I never did hear the Arrow pilot ask for the unsolicited help he got.

Brian

Edited June 28, 2019 by flight2000

[EricJ]

If it had been me in the Arrow I'd have flat out told him to cut the chatter and keep the channel clear.   The last thing you need when you're dealing with an issue is somebody, especially unsolicited, distracting you with their own views on what you should be doing, which may not be the same as yours.   Put the gear up, now put 'em down, put the flaps down, now pull 'em up.   STFU, jerkwad, I know how an airplane works.

That's if you're handling things reasonably well, which I saw no indication that the Arrow driver wasn't or that he thought he needed assistance.

OTOH, if somebody is struggling and needs help and asks for it, that's an entirely different situation.   I don't think this was that, though, and I don't think this makes the Cirrus pilot look good.   Needlessly distracting somebody who's dealing with an issue is a bad thing, imho.

 

 

 

[Guest]

I watched the video, can anyone say what the emergency was?  I didn’t hear one.  Perhaps it’s on the Live ATC ?

Clarence

[AlexLev]

A guy not in the cockpit telling someone to put the gear up and flaps down based on what he sees and interprets in a different airplane than the one he is flying? This would drive me absolutely mad.

I also hate the guys on UNICOM who tell you anything but the wind. I remember landing in Vermont once and the UNICOM guy was basically telling me not to land the runway I was landing at because of a 20knot crosswind. When you're flying, you can make all the decisions you want. Unsolicited advice, unless it's something like hey dummy, your gear is up...isn't welcome.

[RLCarter]

47 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I watched the video, can anyone say what the emergency was?  I didn’t hear one.  Perhaps it’s on the Live ATC ?

Clarence

Aircraft wasn't responding to throttle inputs, couldn't hold altitude 

[steingar]

And if I had any doubt at all I only needed to watch a couple more videos. Overhead break in a Cirrus? Really? Following his solo student in trail? Can’t imagine how that might go wrong. And he’s proud of these stunts. Of course, didn’t need to see those videos to know this tool is in Florida. Every time I hear about something two steps beyond stupid, it’s Florida. Respect to the Fla residents on the site, but there exists an abundance of, shall we say, characters in your state. 

Glad he’s down there. Life is hard enough around here without maroons like that gumming up the mix.

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

. Of course, didn’t need to see those videos to know this tool is in Florida. Every time I hear about something two steps beyond stupid, it’s Florida. Respect to the Fla residents on the site, but there exists an abundance of, shall we say, characters in your state. 

Pure BS without authority

[Hank]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

And if I had any doubt at all I only needed to watch a couple more videos. Overhead break in a Cirrus? Really? Following his solo student in trail? Can’t imagine how that might go wrong. And he’s proud of these stunts. Of course, didn’t need to see those videos to know this tool is in Florida. Every time I hear about something two steps beyond stupid, it’s Florida. Respect to the Fla residents on the site, but there exists an abundance of, shall we say, characters in your state. 

Glad he’s down there. Life is hard enough around here without maroons like that gumming up the mix.

There are characters everywhere. Sometimes it's me, sometimes it's probably you. And the two of us don't fly much in Florida . . . .

[M016576]

1 hour ago, RLCarter said:

Aircraft wasn't responding to throttle inputs, couldn't hold altitude 

Seems to me then, that maybe a 15,000 hour CFI reminding the pilot to raise his gear could have been prudent.  

I could certainly be wrong, though, as (thankfully) I wasn’t there.

Edited June 29, 2019 by M016576

[ZuluZulu]

28 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Pure BS without authority

I used to (briefly) live in Florida, so I'm staying Sweden on that last part but I agree with @steingar that there's something a little bit off about this guy.  Flying formation with his student soloing is just kinda weird.

This reminds me of the guys who try to "tag in" to high speed pursuits on the freeway out here.  They only end up driving more recklessly than the fleeing suspect and needlessly put others in even more danger.

Even if we allow that launching to "intercept" was a good idea, he's way, way too close.  What if the Arrow's throttle response had suddenly sprung to life, forcing an uncommanded climb toward the right?  It would only take a second's distraction for a collision to occur.  Was he actually trying to help, or was he doing it for the clicks?  I would never have posted this video if I had only been trying to help.

One more thing: why Cirrus?  Seems like more of a helicopter instructor to me.... or at least a helicopter parent.