Thoughts on Lynx 9000 with recent events?

[sw1024]

Hi--wondering if anyone has thoughts/relevant info regarding the Lynx 9000 these days--given the recent problems they've had with software.  I have been planning on an install--have not purchased it yet but was inquiring about quotes from shops.  In reading some recent threads over on Beechtalk, it seems that the Lynx unit has software issues related to the recent rollover date.  Lynx has responded that it will takes weeks to issue a patch--and a trip to a dealer in order to fix.

The bigger issue is that it would appear they had no idea this was going on until a number of people called--and now weeks to issue a fix.  Some have mentioned that they appear to be exiting the GA market as well--and have laid off or transferred staff/technical folks.  I don't have any knowledge of this first hand--just what I read.  Interestingly, the Lynx website has not appeared to have been working for the past few days either?

I really wanted an ADS-B solution that was in/out...had decided to not go with a Garmin 345 as I'm not a fan of their closed architecture approach and lack of playing nice with others.  There is a Stratus ESGI with an in/out option--but it's basically a stratus receiver hardwired--which I wasn't thrilled with either.

Any thoughts on rolling the dice with the Lynx?  Did they have any presence at Sun n Fun?  Not sure what to do...was really set on the Lynx but now I'm not so sure...thanks!

[Niko182]

13 minutes ago, sw1024 said:

Hi--wondering if anyone has thoughts/relevant info regarding the Lynx 9000 these days--given the recent problems they've had with software.  I have been planning on an install--have not purchased it yet but was inquiring about quotes from shops.  In reading some recent threads over on Beechtalk, it seems that the Lynx unit has software issues related to the recent rollover date.  Lynx has responded that it will takes weeks to issue a patch--and a trip to a dealer in order to fix.

The bigger issue is that it would appear they had no idea this was going on until a number of people called--and now weeks to issue a fix.  Some have mentioned that they appear to be exiting the GA market as well--and have laid off or transferred staff/technical folks.  I don't have any knowledge of this first hand--just what I read.  Interestingly, the Lynx website has not appeared to have been working for the past few days either?

I really wanted an ADS-B solution that was in/out...had decided to not go with a Garmin 345 as I'm not a fan of their closed architecture approach and lack of playing nice with others.  There is a Stratus ESGI with an in/out option--but it's basically a stratus receiver hardwired--which I wasn't thrilled with either.

Any thoughts on rolling the dice with the Lynx?  Did they have any presence at Sun n Fun?  Not sure what to do...was really set on the Lynx but now I'm not so sure...thanks!

I'd take a nice look at the new GNX375. ADS-B in/out with full WAAS LPV approaches for 7.2 AMU. can't really beat that. install is still most likely another 3 to 4 AMU, but it gets the problem out of the way, and you get WAAS.

[sw1024]

Thanks. I thought about the new 375 but I have a 430 that I want to upgrade to an Avidyne. Garmin only plays nice with their own products...so you’re pretty confined within their product ecosystem once the investing begins...wondering if they’ll even continue supporting Foreflight down the road...

[Niko182]

2 minutes ago, sw1024 said:

wondering if they’ll even continue supporting Foreflight down the road

"I was at the Sun and Fun last Thursday at the Garmin booth, and I am very surprised with the beautiful designs of their products. They certainly have great designers and software developers.

The Garmin reps I spoke with did acknowledge that Foreflight has a tremendous
marketshare and a great product as well. For Garmin to stay ahead of the game,
Garmin will come out with compatibility of the Garmin products with Foreflight.
As they say they couldn't afford to lose that marketshare and client base that
is so loyal to Foreflight.

Great news for us !!"

 

Source:https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=165909

[tigers2007]

L3 Lynx is fine. It’s great to have a second functioning standalone display that shows traffic, METAR, winds aloft, radar, etc. Think redundancy.

Expect these hiccups to be the norm for our fancy new devices. Garmin is not perfect either.

Now if you have the money for a GTN750 and it’s hidden transponder, I’d go for that. I didn’t do that as it raised the overall project price by at least 5 AMU’s. No thanks.



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[tigers2007]

L3 Lynx is fine. It’s great to have a second functioning standalone display that shows traffic, METAR, winds aloft, radar, etc. Think redundancy.

Expect these hiccups to be the norm for our fancy new devices. Garmin is not perfect either.

Now if you have the money for a GTN750 and it’s hidden transponder, I’d go for that. I didn’t do that as it raised the overall project price by at least 5 AMU’s. No thanks.



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[Marauder]

Hi--wondering if anyone has thoughts/relevant info regarding the Lynx 9000 these days--given the recent problems they've had with software.  I have been planning on an install--have not purchased it yet but was inquiring about quotes from shops.  In reading some recent threads over on Beechtalk, it seems that the Lynx unit has software issues related to the recent rollover date.  Lynx has responded that it will takes weeks to issue a patch--and a trip to a dealer in order to fix.
The bigger issue is that it would appear they had no idea this was going on until a number of people called--and now weeks to issue a fix.  Some have mentioned that they appear to be exiting the GA market as well--and have laid off or transferred staff/technical folks.  I don't have any knowledge of this first hand--just what I read.  Interestingly, the Lynx website has not appeared to have been working for the past few days either?
I really wanted an ADS-B solution that was in/out...had decided to not go with a Garmin 345 as I'm not a fan of their closed architecture approach and lack of playing nice with others.  There is a Stratus ESGI with an in/out option--but it's basically a stratus receiver hardwired--which I wasn't thrilled with either.
Any thoughts on rolling the dice with the Lynx?  Did they have any presence at Sun n Fun?  Not sure what to do...was really set on the Lynx but now I'm not so sure...thanks!

This is the official notification from L-3 on the roll over issue:

“As a valuable Lynx customer, we are writing to inform you that due to the GPS Epoch rollover on April 6, 2019, the Lynx weather products such as the METARs, Winds Aloft and Temperatures Aloft may be unavailable on the NGT-9000 panel mount display. Lynx weather products will continue to display via an external display or via WiFi to a portable electronic device. The Lynx transponder and Lynx ADS-B Out functions are not impacted and the system continues to comply with these regulatory requirements.

L3 is working diligently to provide a solution via field update and will communicate a more detailed timeline as soon as possible.

If you have any questions, please contact ACSS Customer Support at (623) 445-7070 option 3 or crc.acss@l3t.com.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.”

As an L-3 9000+ owner, I think the recent software issues are is just like software issues all of the vendors go through. I think Garmin responds faster because they have more units in the field and more resources to jump on issues.

As for their GA presence, I do think something is going on. They aren’t taking orders directly anymore and Aspen is now their dealer. Could L-3 be selling their GA portfolio to Aspen? I know L-3 and now Garmin are spending more energies on Part 25 aircraft.


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[tigers2007]

Marauder, when they come out with the patch, will it be field upgradable by the customer or will I have to take it to my avionics dealer? I need to get my GTN upgraded from 6.21 to 6.xx anyways...


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[gsxrpilot]

BTW the patch for all the IFD navigators was released by Avidyne directly to owners several weeks prior to April 6. I did my own upgrade for my IFD540 and it took all of 5 minutes. I like companies that will work with owners as opposed to those that require a visit to the avionics shop for this type of thing.

[Marauder]

Marauder, when they come out with the patch, will it be field upgradable by the customer or will I have to take it to my avionics dealer? I need to get my GTN upgraded from 6.21 to 6.xx anyways...


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L-3 requires it to be installed by the avionics shop.


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[tigers2007]

4 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

L-3 requires it to be installed by the avionics shop.


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How do the homebuilders do the updates to the L3 and Garmin?

[carusoam]

Summary....

1) The mini Y2K event that effected GPS receivers... occurred...

2) MSers we’re discussing it days before it happened...

3) The new Lynx and some old portable Garmin devices had problems with the roll-over...

4) The Old Garmins took a long time to latch on the satellites... but no updates were required.

5) rollover events don’t happen all too often... when they do... Good companies are prepared in advance....

6) Some things don’t work as expected... that’s when customer service wins points for cleaning up properly...

7) There isn’t a company good enough to Go error free...

8) if you want a Lynx, buy it... L3 isn’t any better or any worse than big G...

9) if you need a reason to save money... you can use this as a reason. But you still won’t have the equipment you want.

10) Problems of the Modern world we live in.... i’m Not trading them in to go back in time....

Have no fear... this problem will be solved quickly... then there will be more... they will be solved quickly as well....

PP thoughts only, not an avionics tech.

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

How do the homebuilders do the updates to the L3 and Garmin?

Not sure. I’d be surprised if they can do it themselves since the avionics shops are using an access portal to get to the firmware downloads and installer software to upload it to the unit.


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[flyingcheesehead]

4 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

L3 Lynx is fine. It’s great to have a second functioning standalone display that shows traffic, METAR, winds aloft, radar, etc. Think redundancy.

Expect these hiccups to be the norm for our fancy new devices. Garmin is not perfect either.

The unit is nice... But you must have missed the part where it appears L3 is going to be exiting the GA market. That would essentially make their products orphans. Ask anyone with an Auracle engine monitor how that's going for them.

While I wouldn't go tearing out an already-installed one, at this point I probably wouldn't install a new one. Go for a Garmin, or if you don't like Garmin, get an Avidyne.

[Yetti]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

This is the official notification from L-3 on the roll over issue:

“As a valuable Lynx customer, we are writing to inform you that due to the GPS Epoch rollover on April 6, 2019, the Lynx weather products such as the METARs, Winds Aloft and Temperatures Aloft may be unavailable on the NGT-9000 panel mount display. Lynx weather products will continue to display via an external display or via WiFi to a portable electronic device. The Lynx transponder and Lynx ADS-B Out functions are not impacted and the system continues to comply with these regulatory requirements.

L3 is working diligently to provide a solution via field update and will communicate a more detailed timeline as soon as possible.

If you have any questions, please contact ACSS Customer Support at (623) 445-7070 option 3 or crc.acss@l3t.com.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.”

As an L-3 9000+ owner, I think the recent software issues are is just like software issues all of the vendors go through. I think Garmin responds faster because they have more units in the field and more resources to jump on issues.

As for their GA presence, I do think something is going on. They aren’t taking orders directly anymore and Aspen is now their dealer. Could L-3 be selling their GA portfolio to Aspen? I know L-3 and now Garmin are spending more energies on Part 25 aircraft.


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What is more concerning is I understand the GPS thing is for older GPS hardware technology.    Which means you are paying a premium for old stuff.

[Marauder]

What is more concerning is I understand the GPS thing is for older GPS hardware technology.    Which means you are paying a premium for old stuff.

 

Avidyne also released firmware updates to deal with the GPS epoch problem and those units weren’t outdated GPS or were they? The difference was Garmin was ahead of the problem and released updates years ago. The first event happened in 1999. Garmin’s 430/530 were subject to it as well but they provided updates years ago. Even my portable 95XL received the update.

 

The newer units were also updated but I can tell firsthand that something was going on with my GTN 650 on April 6th because it took forever for the GPS to acquire. So long in fact, that I almost canceled the flight on that day.

 

This GPS date rollover issue will continue to occur every 19.7 years until the GPS constellations are updated to 13 digit formats.

 

 

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[Marauder]

The unit is nice... But you must have missed the part where it appears L3 is going to be exiting the GA market. That would essentially make their products orphans. Ask anyone with an Auracle engine monitor how that's going for them.
While I wouldn't go tearing out an already-installed one, at this point I probably wouldn't install a new one. Go for a Garmin, or if you don't like Garmin, get an Avidyne.

Time will tell what L-3 plans are. It wasn’t that long ago I remember people on this site starting to panic about their Avidyne deposits and whether the IFD would ever be released.

It won’t be the first time I have had orphans in my panel (Narco & STS LORAN). And if I had installed the G500, I’d be complaining about spending $10k plus to upgrade that orphan to the TXi.

It’s a risk with any of this technology. How long before they kill off the GTX-345 because the 375 becomes an attractive option for people looking to get their first or second GPS and a full ADS-B/transponder?

Playing in this arena isn’t for the weak of wallet.


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[carusoam]

Overnight shift?

Or did your errant GPS leave you on the west coast? 

Wifi connectivity makes updating software seem almost normal...

refreshing an entire fleet of iOS devices is automatic if you want...

Some devices will update their OS or program and keep the last version in the event we don’t like the new one...

Tesla, The automobile, not the DC electric guy, has taken system updates to a whole new level of automation...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Marauder]

Overnight shift?
Or did your errant GPS leave you on the west coast? 
Wifi connectivity makes updating software seem almost normal...
refreshing an entire fleet of iOS devices is automatic if you want...
Some devices will update their OS or program and keep the last version in the event we don’t like the new one...
Tesla, The automobile, not the DC electric guy, has taken system updates to a whole new level of automation...
PP thoughts only...
Best regards,
-a-
 

Nah, just like you, sometimes a night owl. A lot of these concerns we see in aviation firmware updates are because they are visible due to the certification. Unlike a cell phone where these firmware updates can be done automatically and often without user interface.


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[carusoam]

Speaking of certification...

how does a Tesla operate on ‘autopilot’, navigating on its own, at highway speeds, in close formation, with other human carrying vehicles?

Where software and sensors seem to have been placed inside the vehicles at the time of manufacture... software updates and enabling seem to be done by cell signal... operators may be unaware of any of the technology...

Seems a bit, less controlled, than the other guys flying around...

PP thoughts only...

-a-

[Jerry 5TJ]

3 hours ago, carusoam said:

Speaking of certification...

how does a Tesla operate on ‘autopilot’, navigating on its own, at highway speeds, in close formation, with other human carrying vehicles?

Fairly well.  It seems happier on a major highway than a country lane. Perhaps because the former is a more orderly environment.   

Similar to how coupled RNAV LPV approaches are more predictable than a visual pattern entry.  

[Yetti]

5 hours ago, carusoam said:

Overnight shift?

Or did your errant GPS leave you on the west coast? 

Wifi connectivity makes updating software seem almost normal...

refreshing an entire fleet of iOS devices is automatic if you want...

Some devices will update their OS or program and keep the last version in the event we don’t like the new one...

Tesla, The automobile, not the DC electric guy, has taken system updates to a whole new level of automation...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

 

ha ha no.

from people that manage control networks.  You know like the ones that move natural gas and can remove small towns from the map.

Updates are not automated and not till after tested.   The problem then becomes a good version will run till it is out of support (for a long time) from the supporting company.   Coolest thing I saw was using VMware to upgrade the Windows O/S underneath the software without having to reinstall the software.

 

 

[m20kmooney]

16 hours ago, sw1024 said:

The bigger issue is that it would appear they had no idea this was going on until a number of people called--and now weeks to issue a fix.  Some have mentioned that they appear to be exiting the GA market as well--and have laid off or transferred staff/technical folks. 

This is what a software engineer and former employee of L3 Aviation Products says. His opinion of his former employer is very interesting and very telling.  "Do yourself a favor and keep looking somewhere else. L3 has a lot of great people but the corporation is just worried about making the numbers look good instead of actually making greats products." 

Edited April 25, 2019 by m20kmooney

[steingar]

I put a Stratus transponder in the panel and their box wired to ship's power.  I have ADSB in and out.  Everything works just fine.  Wasn't cheap, but the words cheap and airplane don't usually occur in the same sentence uttered by anyone wise.  

[steingar]

Accidentally quoted myself.  Might as well put in a joke.  What do you call a fake noodle?

 

 

 

 

 

 

an impasta.

Edited April 25, 2019 by steingar