Update Nav. Data GNS430W

[0TreeLemur]

Howdy ya'll.   Last year we put the Garmin GNS430W in our '67C.  The seller updated the nav. data in January, 2018.  I"m getting ready for my IFR check ride, and I know that I'll need to update the nav. data before then.   I've never done it.   It has one card that is labeled Garmin, which I assume is the terrain data.   The other card is labeled Jeppesen, which I assume is the navdata.  I think I'll stick with Jeppesen for now.   The subscription for Jepp nav. data is $300/y, I think.  Should I do that, or go for a one-time upgrade say once per year?   Any thoughts or advice from MS?  Thx. in advance.

[KLRDMD]

20 minutes ago, Fred₂O said:

Howdy ya'll.   Last year we put the Garmin GNS430W in our '67C.  The seller updated the nav. data in January, 2018.  I"m getting ready for my IFR check ride, and I know that I'll need to update the nav. data before then.   I've never done it.   It has one card that is labeled Garmin, which I assume is the terrain data.   The other card is labeled Jeppesen, which I assume is the navdata.  I think I'll stick with Jeppesen for now.   The subscription for Jepp nav. data is $300/y, I think.  Should I do that, or go for a one-time upgrade say once per year?   Any thoughts or advice from MS?  Thx. in advance.

The one time update isn't enough of a discount to do it once a year. May as well keep it current. And may as well swap that 430 out for an Avidyne 440.

[tigers2007]

Guy on fleeBay sells an update code for $110 USD that gives you one update for all databases. I’m gonna do that as I only go VFR.


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[rbridges]

If you're going for your instrument checkride, definitely get the subscription.  You need it to fly /G legally, and hopefully you'll be using that instrument ticket often!

[carusoam]

Back a few years ago...

If you needed to save a few bucks... it was possible to check all the waypoints you needed before using them out of the aged database...

Today, if you are going to fly IFR it makes sense to always have the updated data with minimal hassle to have it that way...

If you are only flying between two airports, always using the same approaches, then it is OK to save the dough... just verify all the waypoints before you use them.

Essentially it’s like flying VOR to VOR using the gps box...

Flying direct... need that /G... need that database to make things go smoothly....

If you always navigate by GPS.... get the database...

I did a lot flights between to airports for years... VOR all the time... updated the database once each year...

Be aware of where the latest revision info is in the database and on the plate... if you use ForeFlight you will always have the updated procedure names and version code to compare.... 

Have your answers ready for the check ride.  It has to be better than... I heard from a PP on MS... he uses....   

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[0TreeLemur]

WRT to keeping databases up to date with a subscription, it seems like unless a person has two nav. data cards, there will be a lot of trips to el aeropuerto to get the card, and many options to forget it at home.   The spare cards are pretty darn expensive for what they are.  They appear to be a standard compact flash (CF) pin layout in a special holder.  I read something on POA that any CF card capable of 10 MB/s or faster data transfers work.  16GB capacity needed IIRC for the 430W nav. data.  

If anyone has a solution that makes sense, please send me a PM.

Thx.

[KSMooniac]

I sometimes bring my cards home, and sometimes bring my laptop to the hangar for updates. If you're the only one flying the plane, just bring them home, update them, and put them in your flight bag, or in a Ziploc with your airplane keys so you don't forget to bring them back.

 

Definitely get the annual subscription if you plan to fly IFR. You'll also need the proprietary Jepp or Garmin hardware to actually program the cards. You cannot use a regular CF interface.

 

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[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, Fred₂O said:

WRT to keeping databases up to date with a subscription, it seems like unless a person has two nav. data cards, there will be a lot of trips to el aeropuerto to get the card, and many options to forget it at home.   The spare cards are pretty darn expensive for what they are.  They appear to be a standard compact flash (CF) pin layout in a special holder.  I read something on POA that any CF card capable of 10 MB/s or faster data transfers work.  16GB capacity needed IIRC for the 430W nav. data.  

If anyone has a solution that makes sense, please send me a PM.

Thx.

My plane came with a Skybound 1 card reader from the previous owner and works fine, so you don't need the G2 adapter if you can find one.  I just bring one of those cheapo Windows tablet/notebook combos from Acer to the hangar.  The keyboard has a full size USB port that works, and the tablet is about 1 lbs so not too heavy.  I download the updates via the Jeppen$en app either at home or via hotspot in the hangar, and then just do the update during my preflight.  Just be in the habit of checking the startup screen on the GPS to make sure it says the aviation database is current (and that you've remembered to put the card back in!)

[kortopates]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

If you are only flying between two airports, always using the same approaches, then it is OK to save the dough... just verify all the waypoints before you use them.

This is one of the biggest misunderstandings I come across concerning flying with expired navdata. The above is only true with regard to flying in the enroute environment. You must have unexpired navdata to legally fly rnav gps approaches. See your garmin AFMS concerning this, one paragraph references the enroute environment, the next one for approaches - they are different.

In reality though, if the the intended approach has not been updated since before the navdata expired, you're data won't be wrong - but that's not the law. Just be aware.  

[MinneMooney]

Since you have the Garmin 430W, you have the choice of getting your nav data subscription from either Jeppesen or Garmin. Garmin is currently $299/yr for the entire USA (lower 48 I think) while Jeppesen charges $410/yr. Jeppesen also offers Eastern USA or Western USA nav data for $340/yr. I have a Garmin 430 non-waas and Jeppesen is my only option for nav data. Each provider requires the use of their own proprietary card readers to update the cards. I’m in the annoying position of having to get my nav data from Jeppesen but my obstruction data from Garmin.

[MinneMooney]

I use FltPlan Go on my iPad for enroute charts and procedures. It’s free (for now). Garmin recently acquired them.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

This is one of the biggest misunderstandings I come across concerning flying with expired navdata. The above is only true with regard to flying in the enroute environment. You must have unexpired navdata to legally fly rnav gps approaches. See your garmin AFMS concerning this, one paragraph references the enroute environment, the next one for approaches - they are different.

In reality though, if the the intended approach has not been updated since before the navdata expired, you're data won't be wrong - but that's not the law. Just be aware.  

From Table 1-1-6 in the AIM, it provides this guidance.  #2 refers to Enroute/Terminal operations, and #3 refers to Approaches and substituting for ADF/DME

2Requires verification of data for correctness if database is expired.

3Requires current database or verification that the procedure has not been amended since the expiration of the database.

What I take that to mean is that for enroute operations, you only need to make sure the relevant info is correct and unchanged.  However, for approaches, you CAN still use an expired database, but only if the procedure has not been amended (even if the change is not relevant to your approach).  So I suppose if that last amendment date in the lower left corner was from before your database expired, you could still use that approach even if your database is out of date.

[kortopates]

2 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

From Table 1-1-6 in the AIM, it provides this guidance.  #2 refers to Enroute/Terminal operations, and #3 refers to Approaches and substituting for ADF/DME

2Requires verification of data for correctness if database is expired.

3Requires current database or verification that the procedure has not been amended since the expiration of the database.

What I take that to mean is that for enroute operations, you only need to make sure the relevant info is correct and unchanged.  However, for approaches, you CAN still use an expired database, but only if the procedure has not been amended (even if the change is not relevant to your approach).  So I suppose if that last amendment date in the lower left corner was from before your database expired, you could still use that approach even if your database is out of date.

Look at your Garmin AFMS for your GNS430W, it trumps the AIM and is required to be in your aircraft as a POH supplement - that's the authority for your GPS and trumps the AIM.

[jaylw314]

Just now, kortopates said:

Look at your Garmin AFMS for your GNS430W, it trumps the AIM and is required to be in your aircraft as a POH supplement - that's the authority for your GPS and trumps the AIM.

Ah.  That's a nice gotcha

 

[kortopates]

1 minute ago, jaylw314 said:

Ah.  That's a nice gotcha

 

Exactly right!

[0TreeLemur]

Garmin seems to be good at playing CYA.

[MIm20c]

Fred, I think the first thing you need to decide is if you want to be limited to VOR/ILS approaches for the airports you frequent. Personally I’d have a hard time spending the time and money to get an IR license and then break the rules using outdated data for approaches. 

PM me if you decide you just want an update for your check ride. 

[0TreeLemur]

19 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Fred, I think the first thing you need to decide is if you want to be limited to VOR/ILS approaches for the airports you frequent. Personally I’d have a hard time spending the time and money to get an IR license and then break the rules using outdated data for approaches. 

PM me if you decide you just want an update for your check ride. 

This thread has been very informative.  I've come to some preliminary conclusions:  (1) I need a subscription if I intend to use my IR to the fullest, and (2) just because I have a Jeppesen navdata card in my 430W now, I probably want to switch to Garmin, because I need both halves of CONUS and don't want to pay >$400 for it.   I purchased the Jepp. skybound writer, when I really should have purchased the Garmin writer and a Garmin card nav. data card.    Ugh.  My inner CB is .  I wish I would have started this thread earlier.  Anybody have anything I need for sale?  Trade?

[MIm20c]

The adapter is just a card reader. You will be able to use it for both services. I use an old Samsung tablet to update at the airport, works great. 

[0TreeLemur]

2 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

The adapter is just a card reader. You will be able to use it for both services. I use an old Samsung tablet to update at the airport, works great. 

So this gets to a question I asked earlier- the cards for the GNS430/530 are just CF cards in a special holder, correct?   So your old Samsung tablet has a CF card slot or you plug an adapter into it?  If that is the case then I can use the Jepp. Skybound adapter?

Now do I really have to use a Garmin card for the Garmin nav. data or will the Jepp. card work?  I'm guess then answer to this is no- I'll need to buy the Garmin card.

[Bob_Belville]

I probably should wait for someone who has 430W experience but I will observe that the SC cards used by the GTN and 696 I have need not be the Garmin provided cards. You might have to format a generic card to use it. 

[KSMooniac]

Your existing nav data card (might be silver label and say Jepp) will work fine in the Garmin card writer device or the Jepp device. Unfortunately you need the proprietary writer device to go which ever data supplier you pick. It sucks. I now have both and will switch to whichever deal is best when I renew.

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[MIm20c]

8 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

Your existing nav data card (might be silver label and say Jepp) will work fine in the Garmin card writer device or the Jepp device. Unfortunately you need the proprietary writer device to go which ever data supplier you pick.
 

Good info. I’ve only used Jeppesen for the 430w and Garmin for the other equipment. The cards are completely different than a sd card. Kind of an old style smaller CF card. 

I download the update to the tablet before I leave for the airport. In the plane I plug the g2 USB adapter into the tablet to program the card.  Works great on trips that span an update cycle. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by MIm20c

[jaylw314]

At least from what I've read, the Garmin nav data update requires an internet connection, so you will need WiFi or some kind of hotspot at your hangar if you want to do your update there.

I've been thinking of going with the Garmin nav data--$299 for the US.  Jeppensen is charging me $370 for the western US.  My plane came with both a Garmin and Jeppensen card reader, so I should be okay.  Didn't the 430W and 530W come with the Garmin card reader to program the terrain/obstacle card?

[0TreeLemur]

1 minute ago, jaylw314 said:

Didn't the 430W and 530W come with the Garmin card reader to program the terrain/obstacle card?

Don't know, I bought the 430W used.  I didn't come with one.