De-snowing your Mooney...

[ragedracer1977]

Looks like I'll be up to that task tomorrow morning.  Temps will be in teens to low 20s (F). I'm expecting to see at least 6" of snow on the plane.  From reading other posts here, it looks like Marine/RV antifreeze is the best bet? Brush off as much snow as possible and then use the antifreeze to clean off the ice?  The FBO guys said they can provide preheat if needed, but reading the Lycoming manual, I shouldn't need it unless it's under 10F?  

Do I need to really clean the entire fuselage or just the wings and empennage? 

Pic of my truck to show how much snow has likely accumulated and the weather conditions on the drive up. 

[carusoam]

Depends on how stuck the snow is...

• It is quite the weight and balance challenge.
• it is a lift generator challenge.
• it is an air resistance challenge.
• Getting your Lycoming started below 20°F is near impossible without heat... 100LL doesn’t want to evaporate when that cold.
• being nice to the engine, makes you want to preheat to 40°F if able...
• light fluffy snow doesn’t like to stick.
• The flight school I used a while back used RV water tank anti-freeze.
• TKS fluid is pretty magical... and slippery....
• be ready to charge the battery...
• really cold, maximimum priming, wait to allow for evaporation... little chance of needing the flooded start routine...

MS ideas related to outdoor storage in the NE...

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

Where is your Mooney? I'll be doing this tomorrow as well.

[gsxrpilot]

I'm in Flagstaff and have cleaned snow and ice off the Mooney by hand two mornings already. But tomorrow will be the big one. I only worry about the wings and tail. We took off Wed morning with quite a bit of frost on the fuselage but after an hour of work with just.a towel, the wings and tail were clean and dry.

I might have to try some anti-freeze tomorrow.

[Marauder]

Looks like I'll be up to that task tomorrow morning.  Temps will be in teens to low 20s (F). I'm expecting to see at least 6" of snow on the plane.  From reading other posts here, it looks like Marine/RV antifreeze is the best bet? Brush off as much snow as possible and then use the antifreeze to clean off the ice?  The FBO guys said they can provide preheat if needed, but reading the Lycoming manual, I shouldn't need it unless it's under 10F?  
Do I need to really clean the entire fuselage or just the wings and empennage? 
Pic of my truck to show how much snow has likely accumulated and the weather conditions on the drive up. 

I flew for years in Buffalo. I wouldn’t fly with any surface contaminated with snow or ice. I had covers for the cowling, wings and cockpit, so I only had a small portion between the cockpit and empennage to deal with. If you can remove the snow and are left with frost or ice, you can use IPA or an anti freeze to clean off the surface. Even better if you can toss the plane into a heated hangar for a hour or two.

As for pre-heating, I always pre-heated when the temps got below 40°. I saw the Lycoming recommendation but at 10°, things are pretty stiff.


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[ragedracer1977]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm in Flagstaff and have cleaned snow and ice off the Mooney by hand two mornings already. But tomorrow will be the big one. I only worry about the wings and tail. We took off Wed morning with quite a bit of frost on the fuselage but after an hour of work with just.a towel, the wings and tail were clean and dry.

I might have to try some anti-freeze tomorrow.

I'm in show low, about 45 Mooney minutes SE of FLG.  I should have flown home Tuesday, but my wife was too nervous to let my son drive alone, but also too nervous to ride with him. So I got to drive and leave the plane behind.  

 

I'm going to head to the field around 8 and see what I see.  I'll be sure to post pics of the Frozen Mooney.  

Sounds like asking for a preheat isn't a terrible idea either.  No heated hangars available.

Edited December 29, 2018 by ragedracer1977

[mooneyspeed]

if you have an engine tent and access to power you could put one of those 800W "buddy" heaters in the bottome of the cowl, let that run for 3-4 hours, should be nice and toasty in there for ya.

[Guest]

I too would preheat the engine at anything below 40.  It’s pretty tough on everything under the cowl at colder temps.

Clarence

[bradp]

I also use 40 as my threshold for preheat. 

I used to be up in Pittsburgh with no hangar.  Pull into a warm hangar works well but you have to be very cognizant of refrezing potential at the control surfaces. A thorough application of water displacing lubricant may be a good insurance policy in this respect. 

For snow a gentle brush is usually all you need. However if there is ice or frost accretion you need to get it off.  Sun works really well.  TKS fluid might be an option but it is corrosive so be careful where you use it. Isopropyl alcohol can work well and is not corrosive.  Ethylene glycol will work too. So will type IV deice fluid.  Check the MSDS...

[Shiny moose]

As stated above.  Get all the ice, snow, and frost off of your wings and tail, ensure your trim moves both ways before departure. sunshine on cleared surfaces will help, dont be in a hurry. preheat that engine 

[N201MKTurbo]

The biggest thing is to clean it off every day if you can. The worst thing is when the snow melts and refreezes into ice. Pay particular attention to your spinner. It can get full of refrozen snow and severely unbalance your prop. Always park with one blade down so the water will run out when the snow melts.

I always kept a windshield brush and squeegee in the plane for sweeping the snow and squeegeeing the water off. It never hurt the paint.

A good gentle but firm whack with the side of your fist will crack the ice and allow you to sweep it off. 

A preheater will melt off a stubern frost layer, but you have to dry it immediately with a towel or it will refreeze.

Preheat your panel, your gyros will love you for it.

Check your controls just before take off to make sure the hinges didn’t freeze.

The FAA says there can be no contamination anywhere on your airplane these days.

When I was a kid, I flew 2500 hours out of Denver with an M20F that was parked outside. I flew it almost everyday for work. I was at a private airport and the manager went on vacation. I had to hire a snow plow to plow the runway and a path from my plane to the runway.

[201er]

If it’s cold enough, the quickest way to get rid of snow is to wait. Wind usually blows most of it right off. It’s only when things are on the freezing border line that it starts to ice on and stick.

[INA201]

What about a battery powered blower to just blow off as much as possible?

 

[N201MKTurbo]

16 minutes ago, INA201 said:

What about a battery powered blower to just blow off as much as possible?

 

A brush works faster and takes up less room on the hat rack.

This was my weapon of choice.

[gsxrpilot]

I called the FBO here in Flagstaff this morning. No space in a heated hangar but the line guys will sweep the snow off. There was a heavy layer of ice on the car this morning. Went to AutoZone and got a gallon of RV Anti-freeze and a spray bottle. We'll see how it goes.

The plan is to leave about noon to fly to Moab, UT.

[Marauder]

I called the FBO here in Flagstaff this morning. No space in a heated hangar but the line guys will sweep the snow off. There was a heavy layer of ice on the car this morning. Went to AutoZone and got a gallon of RV Anti-freeze and a spray bottle. We'll see how it goes.
The plan is to leave about noon to fly to Moab, UT.

Take pictures of the process. Always enjoy seeing them when me and my plane aren’t involved.

Stay warm!


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[bradp]

The RV plumbing antifreeze is compatible with  metals IIRC (ie non corrosive). 

[Shadrach]

Put me in the camp that preheats below 40.  I've seen how the multi weight I run flows in the teens. it's not bad, but I feel like 10 and 40 are worlds apart. If your wings and tail are colored  the sun will melt the residual snow as the surfaces absorb heat.  I really don't like scrubbing snow off of paint.  I think it's abusive (and my paint is tired).  If you can find a warm place to allow it to warm up, that is optimal. 

[aviatoreb]

5 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I called the FBO here in Flagstaff this morning. No space in a heated hangar but the line guys will sweep the snow off. There was a heavy layer of ice on the car this morning. Went to AutoZone and got a gallon of RV Anti-freeze and a spray bottle. We'll see how it goes.

The plan is to leave about noon to fly to Moab, UT.

That fluffy high altitude dry snow will be very easy to remove.  All you need is one good sneeze and it will all blow off.

[gsxrpilot]

Standing in the AutoZone this morning I was wondering about the Windshield de-icer. Would that have been safe to use on the wings?

 

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

That fluffy high altitude dry snow will be very easy to remove.  All you need is one good sneeze and it will all blow off.

Yep, revealing a very hard coat of frost/ice beneath it. 

[aviatoreb]

11 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Looks like I'll be up to that task tomorrow morning.  Temps will be in teens to low 20s (F). I'm expecting to see at least 6" of snow on the plane.  From reading other posts here, it looks like Marine/RV antifreeze is the best bet? Brush off as much snow as possible and then use the antifreeze to clean off the ice?  The FBO guys said they can provide preheat if needed, but reading the Lycoming manual, I shouldn't need it unless it's under 10F?  

Do I need to really clean the entire fuselage or just the wings and empennage? 

Pic of my truck to show how much snow has likely accumulated and the weather conditions on the drive up. 

If that was wet snow that fell wet, and then the temperature dropped below freezing, so that its essentially iced on. meaning it is strongly adhered.  It is my opinion that if it does not brush off easily then you do not want to remove it by mechanical abrasion because it will scratch your paint.  Even on a car it can scratch your paint but airplane paint is not as baked on.  Also, I would worry that there would be ice frozen into the control surfaces.  If you were as if up here, where you get long cold stretches I would be using chemical de-icing in this scenario.  Or a heated hangar.  But given your lattitude, I would just wait a few days for it to melt off.

Edited December 29, 2018 by aviatoreb

[N201MKTurbo]

Back in the day, I made a deicer. I took a 5 gallon Hudson sprayer and brased in an engine heater. I would fill it with 25% antifreeze, plug it in until it was boiling and spray off the wings after I brushed off all the snow and cracked off all the easy ice. It would make quick work of the stubborn bottom layer of frost and ice.

[aviatoreb]

28 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yep, revealing a very hard coat of frost/ice beneath it. 

I don't know what is in that stuff.

Alcohol?  The good stuff from the paint shop.  The stuff from the drug store can be 30% water and only 70% alcohol.  The paint shop has the 99+% stuff (and then you can use it in your fuel too!).  But I don't know what I am talking about...full disclosure...regarding the drug store stuff on the paint (but do not use that stuff in the fuel!!!).  I know it is a primary ingredient in tks fluid.

I have a hangar so I essentially never have this problem at home but I have rarely/occasionally had this problems on the road.  And I do carry both 99+ alcohol (since I use it in the fuel) and also tks fluid since I have weeping wing.  They both work well on the wing/air frame.  You only need a tiny bit - drip a bit on - then also wet a cloth and light rubbing and the ice comes right off.  First use a brush to remove the majority of the snow - that can be removed without any scrubbing action.  Then de-ice fluids to remove the rest.

If you are going to be on the Road and run into ice like this occasionally, it would be worth to carry a gallon of tks since it works very very well to remove ice as just described and you don't need a lot.

If you ask around - there may well be a heated hangar somewhere on the field?  An hour in the heated hangar and you are good to go!

Some air fields FBO's will offer de-ice service - which is expensive - but less expensive than fixing a paint job after trying to use a brush to get off strongly stuck ice.

Edited December 29, 2018 by aviatoreb

[Marauder]

Standing in the AutoZone this morning I was wondering about the Windshield de-icer. Would that have been safe to use on the wings?
 

I would check the ingredients. Most of them contain methanol. I would be more worried about the dyes in them.


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