Muffler crack

[cliffy]

Yes for $129 w/discount

[FastTex]

21 minutes ago, cliffy said:

Yes for $129 w/discount

Just ordered one with expedite shipping. For whatever reason this post freaked me out because yesterday I was talking to my mechanic to check the cabin heat. I have never used it since I got the Mooney...part of the good news is the CO2 sensor (the cheap $10 one...) has not indicated any leaks. Now I need the second part confirming the no-leak after actually pulling the cabin heat knob! I think I will ground check it first with the Sensorcon ON...;-)

[Two7Victor]

Just ordered mine....$129

Thanks for the heads up and code!

[carusoam]

On 11/13/2018 at 1:11 PM, FastTex said:

I'm building a device with CO2 detection plus other functions but after reading this I might just buy one so to be still alive and complete my project!

Do you guys have the basic model ($159)?

 If for some reason you decide to build one...

Get a CO sensor, not a CO₂ sensor...

The difference is huge. But, usually doesn’t come up when buying one that is fit for the purpose....

CO₂ is what we exhale... it is with us in every breath we take...

Carbon monoxide is the bad one that comes from partially burnt fuel and likes to really stick to our red blood cells in place of O₂...

Some things are too important to risk.  You don’t want to have a sensor that may or may not work over time....

I would prefer the factory built model over the home-built when it is that important...

I also follow the herd mentality... pick a good herd and be a follower... when the herd senses something wrong with the unit... you will be in the know... if you have a one-off you built... who is going to tell you that there is a problem with the sensor calibration?

CO sensors for the cockpit are extremely sensitive compared to home CO monitors... to build one for the airplane is going to take a whole lot of research...

there are plenty of good projects to build, where their failure is obvious, or won’t let you down...  nothing would be worse than paying to be protected, and not knowing it failed...

I see you have gone Sensorcon already...   good choice!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Bob_Belville]

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

I also follow the heard mentality... pick a good heard and be a follower... when the heard senses something wrong with the unit... you will be in the know... if you have a one-off you built... who is going to tell you that there is a problem with the sensor calibration?

herd? 

[carusoam]

The crowd i’m Following is really loud!  

-a-

[Bob_Belville]

3 minutes ago, carusoam said:

The crowd i’m Following is really loud!  

-a-

(Anthony, I'm that last one qualified to be correcting spelling or typos... but 3 times in one line...) 

[carusoam]

 I was told consistency counts and has some value... 

Those homonyms are tricky. Herd/heard.....

Funny and fun memory challenges...

I enjoy learning from these kinds of mistakes. I’m still getting better at these, slowly...

Knowledge and experience...

• knowledge was spelling the word correctly...
• experience is what we use to select the right word to use...

An interesting example of Distraction in motion... great example of paying attention to getting the sentences straight, to deliver the meaning, trying not to be harsh on the person who was contemplating building a really cool CO monitor... I completely didn’t recognize the incorrect word selection....

Hmmmmmm.....   Siri could have helped me out on that one.... I needed spelling and context check on that one.

Always check your work...

Rely on your friends for help...

Live another day...

Thanks and best regards,

-a-

[ASI Pilot]

On 11/7/2018 at 1:38 PM, Frozen Flying said:

Anyone know the best place for a ball and socket type muffler for an M20E? Dawley quoted me a month to overhaul. 

 

Also, check your mufflers. I almost died today. Flying at 8000 with low cielings below my CO monitor started beeping. Ended up almost losing consciousness several times. Opened the door and window to try to get air. Was able to do an ILS and land but it was close.

 

Hi Frozen Flying, we like to request your permission to use this photo on AOPA's website. We produce a podcast in the AOPA Air Safety Institute called "There I was..." in which we interview pilots who have had emergency situations. In our upcoming episode, a pilot talks about an incident he had with CO poisoning. As supplements to the story, we'd like to point listeners to our website with photos of his airplane, as well as photos of exhaust system damage, to give pilots an idea of what to look for during inspections. Please email me at tyler.pangborn@aopa.org. We'd be happy to provide photo credit to you on our website along with the picture.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, ASI! @asi

Please

Please

Please 

Spread the word regarding common sources of CO That get injected into the cockpit...

Also include our favorite CO monitoring companies...

Are you familiar with our pilotless landing of an M20C?

If not familiar, please find Dan @DanM20C

Dan has been giving a great presentation on his experience with CO... may make a great interview with a super CFI!

Cold weather is coming... people will be using their heaters for the first time in months...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, ASI Pilot said:

Hi Frozen Flying, we like to request your permission to use this photo on AOPA's website. We produce a podcast in the AOPA Air Safety Institute called "There I was..." in which we interview pilots who have had emergency situations. In our upcoming episode, a pilot talks about an incident he had with CO poisoning. As supplements to the story, we'd like to point listeners to our website with photos of his airplane, as well as photos of exhaust system damage, to give pilots an idea of what to look for during inspections. Please email me at tyler.pangborn@aopa.org. We'd be happy to provide photo credit to you on our website along with the picture.

Paging @Frozen Flying

[Spurious Moppet]

10 hours ago, ASI Pilot said:

Hi Frozen Flying, we like to request your permission to use this photo on AOPA's website. We produce a podcast in the AOPA Air Safety Institute called "There I was..." in which we interview pilots who have had emergency situations. In our upcoming episode, a pilot talks about an incident he had with CO poisoning. As supplements to the story, we'd like to point listeners to our website with photos of his airplane, as well as photos of exhaust system damage, to give pilots an idea of what to look for during inspections. Please email me at tyler.pangborn@aopa.org. We'd be happy to provide photo credit to you on our website along with the picture.

I sent you an email.

[ASI Pilot]

On 10/11/2019 at 3:28 PM, carusoam said:

Welcome aboard, ASI! @asi

Please

Please

Please 

Spread the word regarding common sources of CO That get injected into the cockpit...

Also include our favorite CO monitoring companies...

Are you familiar with our pilotless landing of an M20C?

If not familiar, please find Dan @DanM20C

Dan has been giving a great presentation on his experience with CO... may make a great interview with a super CFI!

Cold weather is coming... people will be using their heaters for the first time in months...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

Hi carusoam, @carusoam

I didn't realize this when I sent my request to @Frozen Flying but Dan is the same pilot we interviewed for our podcast. I went back through the posts and saw all the references to Dan. Small world!

We're releasing the podcast this Friday, you can find it at airsafetyinstitute.org/thereiwas

Hope this helps to spread the word about CO as well.

[cliffy]

I've waited a while to post this question (no disrespect to anyone meant)

How does CO enter the cabin IF the heater control valve is shut off completely?

My procedure if and or when the CO monitor sounds is to shut off the heater valve (just like the engine fire procedure)

No air flow from the heater, no CO.

OR if there is the heater valve is not adjusted properly. 

[ArtVandelay]

I've waited a while to post this question (no disrespect to anyone meant)
How does CO enter the cabin IF the heater control valve is shut off completely?
My procedure if and or when the CO monitor sounds is to shut off the heater valve (just like the engine fire procedure)
No air flow from the heater, no CO.
OR if there is the heater valve is not adjusted properly. 

I had a bad muffler on my plane, unfortunately the AP missed it even though in his prebuy report he said it was good, I guess from the outside it was? Shutting off the heat fixed it. Maybe I just have sensitive sense of smell, but I instantly knew I was getting exhaust air. I have the sensorcon but only use it when I have the heat on.

[DualRatedFlyer]

33 minutes ago, cliffy said:

I've waited a while to post this question (no disrespect to anyone meant)

How does CO enter the cabin IF the heater control valve is shut off completely?

My procedure if and or when the CO monitor sounds is to shut off the heater valve (just like the engine fire procedure)

No air flow from the heater, no CO.

OR if there is the heater valve is not adjusted properly. 

I dont believe it is possible to ever fully shut of the flow of air through those ducts 

[Oldguy]

36 minutes ago, cliffy said:

I've waited a while to post this question (no disrespect to anyone meant)

How does CO enter the cabin IF the heater control valve is shut off completely?

My procedure if and or when the CO monitor sounds is to shut off the heater valve (just like the engine fire procedure)

No air flow from the heater, no CO.

OR if there is the heater valve is not adjusted properly. 

Sometimes it comes through openings in the foot wells and firewall that are not sealed properly. Then there are door seals that do not really seal and you get some exhaust coming into the cabin. And as @DualRatedFlyer says, sometimes fully closed isn't.

CO is insidious in the ways it finds to get into an enclosed area where there are humans.

[skydvrboy]

52 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I had a bad muffler on my plane, unfortunately the AP missed it even though in his prebuy report he said it was good, I guess from the outside it was? Shutting off the heat fixed it. Maybe I just have sensitive sense of smell, but I instantly knew I was getting exhaust air. I have the sensorcon but only use it when I have the heat on.

Why would you only use it when you have the heat on?  The Sensorcon has a battery life of 2-4 years if left on continuously.  If you fly a lot, say 200 hours per year, and remember to turn it off when not flying, it should last over 87 years! 

I've come back to the plane after a week or two and found it left on, but knowing the battery life, I don't worry about it.  It's part of my pre-start checklist, but perhaps I should add it to the shutdown checklist too? 

[EricJ]

8 hours ago, cliffy said:

I've waited a while to post this question (no disrespect to anyone meant)

How does CO enter the cabin IF the heater control valve is shut off completely?

My procedure if and or when the CO monitor sounds is to shut off the heater valve (just like the engine fire procedure)

No air flow from the heater, no CO.

OR if there is the heater valve is not adjusted properly. 

Any exhaust leak can still wind up coming through any leaks into the cabin, and the engine exhaust outlet is in front of and directly below most of the cabin space.    Any holes or leaky seams in the floor or even around the door seem to be potential entries for CO just coming in from the normal exhaust exit.

Once in a while my CO monitor will elevate when in either a descent or especially in a landing configuration.   It doesn't always do it, but there's apparently something about how the airflow changes in those condition that there's some increase likelihood of flow coming into the cabin.   It typically goes back to normal (~0) once I'm on the ground.

If elevated CO indications continue with the heat shut off, opening fresh air sources seems to be a good idea.

[carusoam]

One of the most recent and odd CO sources found in an MSer’s plane...

Exhaust sneaking into the cabin through the cable entry to the cabin...

Apparently there is a right way and not-so-right way to keep exhaust from sneaking in through the back along where the wires and vac hoses run...

It was unexpected, as many would naturally believe that air flow will be from front to back... in this case, the cabin is under vac and allowing air in from outside... at the back wall...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Pasturepilot]

Got a screw missing in a belly panel? That can do it. 

[cliffy]

If either the main door or baggage door seals are bad air will be drawn from the passenger cabin to outside real fast.  (There was a picture somewhere showing a woman's hair being sucked up to the baggage door in flight) 

That air has to be replaced somehow and through the cable run at the bottom of the baggage bulkhead, left side, is where it will come from. And it will flow a LOT of air. The fuselage develops a lot of negative pressure when in flight. Think how hard it is (impossible) to close the door if it pops open in flight. Door seals and the little ice window seal on the pilots left shoulder are very important for air control in Mooneys. In fact (I think) they are more important than sealing other holes going in. Try opening the ice window in flight and see how much air is sucked out!

If the air is not being sucked out then the only place CO can come in is the heater system. If the door seals are leaking, then even if the heater is closed off, CO may be sucked in through a less than perfect seal on the heater control valve. The heater gets ram air pressure from its inlet and discharges it into the cabin by "pushing " it in with the ram pressure.  If the cabin door seals are leaking and reducing the internal cabin pressure even more, then, more differential exists at the cabin heat control valve. So, even if it is closed more CO can be sucked through it into the cabin from a leaky valve, 

Its all about controlling pressures.  Seal the cabin doors correctly. It important!

[DanM20C]

19 hours ago, cliffy said:

If the air is not being sucked out then the only place CO can come in is the heater system.

This is true, but it’s nearly impossible to completely seal a non pressurized airplane.  
 

I’m with you that understanding how cabin pressure can be effected with opening windows or vents is important.  Opening a just side window could possibly make the situation worse depending how the CO is getting in.

On 10/15/2019 at 10:24 AM, ArtVandelay said:

I have the sensorcon but only use it when I have the heat on.

Only 50% of fatal CO crashes are caused by a faulty heating system.  Batteries are cheep, Run it all the time.

 A side benefit is sometimes the detectors find other problems. Recently someone discovered a broken engine mount after investigating a small rise in CO.  The exhaust shifted enough to leak a small amount. It possibly saved his life.

 Cheers,

Dan

 

[skydvrboy]

2 hours ago, DanM20C said:

Batteries are cheep, Run it all the time.

I just looked up the battery that the Sensorcon uses, a CR123A Lithium battery.  Cheap is an understatement, they're less than $2 each!

[carusoam]

Scientific notation of the price of one battery for the Sensorcon...   2X10^-3AMU

 Proof... Not everything in aviation needs to be outrageously priced.

-a-