An Absolutely Horrible Day!

[ShuRugal]

On 9/27/2018 at 7:41 PM, donkaye said:

While I didn't get the full story, sufficed it to say that while doing the inspection, the nose of the airplane was dropped.  Several blades of the prop were bent and the nose truss was destroyed.

that implies the engine was running.

 

Why was the engine running while the nose gear was off the ground?  Did someone start it while it was on jacks?  why?

 

 

EDIT: I see now it is a 3 blade prop - disregard XD

[Niko182]

7 minutes ago, ShuRugal said:

that implies the engine was running.

 

Why was the engine running while the nose gear was off the ground?  Did someone start it while it was on jacks?  why?

they probably bent upon impact. doesn't need to be running in order for the blades to bend.

[gsxrpilot]

8 minutes ago, ShuRugal said:

that implies the engine was running.

 

Why was the engine running while the nose gear was off the ground?  Did someone start it while it was on jacks?  why?

What? Where did you get this? The engine was not running. It's all in the thread here.

[LANCECASPER]

I have two blades available and a hub from that model prop with less than 250 TT on them. The insurance company will probably pay for a new prop,  two blades would be a lot less expensive. The difference could be put toward the engine purchase.

(I had one blade that was out of spec on  an IRAN on my prop, but there were no blades available, so I bought a prop that used to belong to @FoxMike when he bought his 4 blade MT prop. This left me with two blades and a hub.)

[Mooneymite]

I'm all for "appropriate caution", but I suspect that the engine dropping on the ground, bending the prop as it fell, no damage was done to the engine at all.  Having said that, my suspicion that no damage was done has to be verified....

[ShuRugal]

16 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

What? Where did you get this? The engine was not running. It's all in the thread here.

Ah, I see now it is a 3 blade prop - disregard XD

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

I'm all for "appropriate caution", but I suspect that the engine dropping on the ground, bending the prop as it fell, no damage was done to the engine at all.  Having said that, my suspicion that no damage was done has to be verified....

I would be far more concerned if it was a Continental crankshaft, they brittle and are more likely to crack.

Clarence

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ShuRugal said:

that implies the engine was running.

 

Why was the engine running while the nose gear was off the ground?  Did someone start it while it was on jacks?  why?

 

 

EDIT: I see now it is a 3 blade prop - disregard XD

You need to read the whole thread to get a clear understanding of the situation.

Clarence

[Mooneymite]

1 minute ago, M20Doc said:

I would be far more concerned if it was a Continental crankshaft, they brittle and are more likely to crack.

From the description of how the accident took place, it would appear that the nose gear progressively retracted rather than collapsed, so any shock to the crank shaft was mitigated.

[donkaye]

9 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

From the description of how the accident took place, it would appear that the nose gear progressively retracted rather than collapsed, so any shock to the crank shaft was mitigated.

When it went over center it collapsed.  Maybe there wasn't' any damage to the engine, but it still has to be removed and torn down with associated risks when it is put back together.  If you had a perfectly good engine, and it had to be torn down and checked, reassembled, and reinstalled plus it was going to take 2-3 months how would you feel?  I feel uncomfortable enough that I'm getting a new reman engine.

[mike_elliott]

On 9/28/2018 at 12:05 AM, donkaye said:

I will probably go with a Reman.  Not sure what the backlog is.  Definitely don't want my current engine torn down and rebuilt.  I don't trust any shop to do that.  I want an original Lycoming, period.

So sorry to hear that Don. You missed the Summit and now you will miss Dons fly in. To make the best of this, consider speaking with Hartzel and see how far out they are on certification of the Acclaim prop for the bravo. They have a bravo and are working on it, so you might as well get the additional performance if your buying a prop too. 

 

[JohnB]

On 9/29/2018 at 3:36 PM, donkaye said:

I'm about to leave for FedEx to overnight Air Power my Deposit on my Reman to get the 8 week cycle going.  Does anyone know of any less expensive distributor for Lycoming?  No way am I doing just a tear down and rebuild.  I don't trust outside overhaul shops.  I've heard too many horror stories.  Plus the time frames are about the same.  I don't expect to get the plane back in the air for a minimum of 3 months.  The insurance company is going to pay for that lack of availability if I have anything to say about it, because I use my plane extensively in travel for flight instruction.  This whole experience is not going to be a cheap issue for them.

This is really sad.. I am so sorry you have to deal with this Don.

On 9/29/2018 at 3:38 PM, thinwing said:

I agree ,this was not a simple forgotten wrench,forgot to final torque etc...gross negligence in the most aberrant way...some one that situationally challenged ,so unaware that he couldn't see the jacks probably wouldn't have noticed another mechanic under the aircraft when he performed the final trio of events that activated the gear.

You know, I had a similar experience with what I'm pretty sure was this shop during my one and only annual with this shop, inattention to detail, leading to a major oversight which could have been fatal. I was told at the time that they corrected this by now having their experienced mechanics oversee the inexperienced ones, but I have never gone back to this shop for another annual.  Wondering if their overseeing of their inexperienced mechanics has fallen by the wayside again?

[donkaye]

5 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

So sorry to hear that Don. You missed the Summit and now you will miss Dons fly in. To make the best of this, consider speaking with Hartzel and see how far out they are on certification of the Acclaim prop for the bravo. They have a bravo and are working on it, so you might as well get the additional performance if your buying a prop too. 

 

Thanks, Mike.  I'm really sorry to have missed the Summit.  Looking forward to it next year.  I  was planning on flying to Don's but this event ended that as far as my flying there.  I am going to attend, though.  The insurance Company better pay for my extra cost differential of getting there.

[ShuRugal]

23 hours ago, M20Doc said:

You need to read the whole thread to get a clear understanding of the situation.

Clarence

Ayeaye, Cap.

 

[donkaye]

It's been nearly a week since the incident, and I have yet to be contacted by the Shop's Insurance Company, although I have asked.  When Shirley had an incident earlier this year when a car ran into her car while she was in a store shopping, Allstate was unbelievably attentive.  They handled the claim in such a manner that I wanted to have them as my insurance company.  So far that is not the case with this insurance company.  Where is the adjustor?  How long should I have to wait?  

If I don't get some answers soon, it will be time to get an Attorney involved in this.

[KSMooniac]

I'm with Jim...I expect you'll need to get an attorney involved before all is said and done. Having no contact from an adjuster so far is a sign that they need some prodding...perhaps a letter from an attorney will get their attention.

The whole thing is awful, and I hope you'll get it repaired to your satisfaction in a timely fashion. I also agree with Mike that you ought to check into a prop upgrade if you need to replace it...either that new Hartzell or an MT if they make one for the Bravo. I'm still happy with mine on my J. The MT will get a lot of weight off the nose and I'm sure that is beneficial on your M.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[bonal]

Don, really sorry to read about this and as many others that have been following this story even more sorry to read that the news isn't getting any better. You have been very professional in that you have not mentioned where (what shop) this happened but as there has been over 3 thousand views on your thread you might suggest to them you would share that information with all the Mooney owners if you don't start seeing things progressing more to your expectations. It might put a fire under their butts before having to go to the trouble and expense of an attorney. I know AOPA has a legal team that also may be of some help. But I'm sure with your vast experience in aviation you most likely already have contacts along those lines.

good luck to you 

[RobertGary1]

Have you thought about going through your insurance company and letting them recover from the shop? I did that when I got kit by a truck. My insurance handled the whole thing and since they found me not at fault (I wasn’t at the plane) they didn’t charge me any extra premiums. Eventually the trucks insurance settled with them. 

-Robert

[donkaye]

35 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Have you thought about going through your insurance company and letting them recover from the shop? I did that when I got kit by a truck. My insurance handled the whole thing and since they found me not at fault (I wasn’t at the plane) they didn’t charge me any extra premiums. Eventually the trucks insurance settled with them. 

-Robert

I've got MAPA insurance that I have had since I got my plane, but at best they will get the repairs done.  What they won't do is: 1) Go for Loss of Value  2) Loss of Use.  3) Loss of Income (I often use the plane to go to transition students who can't fly their plane, yet). 4) Insurance that I'm paying for that is not being used.  5) Hangar that I'm paying for that is not being used.  6. Cost of my time that I need to spend on getting this resolved.

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, bonal said:

Don, really sorry to read about this and as many others that have been following this story even more sorry to read that the news isn't getting any better. You have been very professional in that you have not mentioned where (what shop) this happened but as there has been over 3 thousand views on your thread you might suggest to them you would share that information with all the Mooney owners if you don't start seeing things progressing more to your expectations. It might put a fire under their butts before having to go to the trouble and expense of an attorney. I know AOPA has a legal team that also may be of some help. But I'm sure with your vast experience in aviation you most likely already have contacts along those lines.

good luck to you 

How do you monitor the number of views?

[FoxMike]

Don,

If you are considering an MT up grade plan about 4 or 5 month wait.  I ordered right after OSH and it arrived in Deland in Dec.

[thinwing]

That's not a bad idea..make the claim with your Insurence ,an adjuster will contact you within 24 hrs...who's your broker?

[Niko182]

42 minutes ago, donkaye said:

How do you monitor the number of views?

right now you're at 3519 views. when going on to mooneyspace.com click on the genereal topic, in this case "General mooney talk" and look at the options. the option in this case is "An absolutely horrible day!". look to the right of that title where all the picture of the latest user post is and it'll tell you the number of posts and views.

BTW, options for your prop consist of repairing the prop.
if you go to MT prop, the weight will drop from 80.6 on the MCcauly to 60.4lbs.
if you go hartzell prop, the weight drops from 80.6 to 72.5.
also if you went with the hartzell prop, I wouldn't be surprised to see somewhere of a
10 knot increase in cruise speed as the Original Ovation 1 had the same prop and would cruise
somewhere around 175 with the 3 blade prop. most people with the Acclaim props see around 185.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Niko182

[Bravoman]

3 hours ago, donkaye said:

It's been nearly a week since the incident, and I have yet to be contacted by the Shop's Insurance Company, although I have asked.  When Shirley had an incident earlier this year when a car ran into her car while she was in a store shopping, Allstate was unbelievably attentive.  They handled the claim in such a manner that I wanted to have them as my insurance company.  So far that is not the case with this insurance company.  Where is the adjustor?  How long should I have to wait?  

If I don't get some answers soon, it will be time to get an Attorney involved in this.

Have you been given the name of a carrier and the number of their claims dept.(which is always set forth in the policy)  or is the shop telling you they have contacted their insurer and are putting them in touch with you? If it is the latter I would insist on the former and get the name and number of their broker as well so that you have a backup to call to get the fires lit in multiple places. Also get the policy number for easy reference. You should have heard from an adjuster by now.

[donkaye]

43 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

right now you're at 3519 views. when going on to mooneyspace.com click on the genereal topic, in this case "General mooney talk" and look at the options. the option in this case is "An absolutely horrible day!". look to the right of that title where all the picture of the latest user post is and it'll tell you the number of posts and views.

BTW, options for your prop consist of repairing the prop.
if you go to MT prop, the weight will drop from 80.6 on the MCcauly to 60.4lbs.
if you go hartzell prop, the weight drops from 80.6 to 72.5.
also if you went with the hartzell prop, I wouldn't be surprised to see somewhere of a
10 knot increase in cruise speed as the Original Ovation 1 had the same prop and would cruise
somewhere around 175 with the 3 blade prop. most people with the Acclaim props see around 185.

I looked on the Hartzell site and couldn't find a Bravo Prop.  Has one been approved, yet?