Planning for en-route ATC frequencies?

[ShuRugal]

Is there a tool or method I can use to easily plot out what ATC frequencies I should expect on a long flight?  I would like to be able to put together a preconfigured commo plan to help with handing of between controllers, so I'll know who i should be talking to on what freq in the event of a garbled handoff instruction, or a missed handoff.

[Bartman]

The Avidyne IFD 440 and 540 series Nav/Comm does it automatically and often what I am about to input is provided for me as the first option, but sometimes does not have the one I am looking for.  Other than that you can look at the IFR charts in the blue boxes for expected communication frequencies.  I have been either dropped or missed a handoff and used them before.

[hypertech]

You can also check the frequencies listed in Foreflight for a nearby airport.  Chances are the approach or departure frequency are on the frequency you should be on - or they can tell you what frequency to switch to.

[Marauder]

3 minutes ago, hypertech said:

You can also check the frequencies listed in Foreflight for a nearby airport.  Chances are the approach or departure frequency are on the frequency you should be on - or they can tell you what frequency to switch to.

That may work if you are on a TEC route but if you are being worked by Center, I don't think those freqs are listed on any of these apps.

[RobertGary1]

I don't think so. You can get a good guess but the frequencies will depend on how busy things are and how many controllers are on duty. If its slow one controller may be working a large area and you don't get many hand offs. If its busy you could get a lot more handoffs than you normally expect. The frequencies on the charts are just for initial call up and depending on who is working what areas they'll give you the current frequency. Sometimes it even varies if its a military or civilian controller based on time of day.

-Robert

[David Lloyd]

For years I went to the same 30 or so airports dozens of times.  I had each flight plan saved as an Excel spreadsheet showing a flight plan, distances, headings, and ATC frequencies. Most of the frequencies have been used for the same routes 40 years.  Example attached.

Allentown ABE.xls

Edited June 29, 2018 by David Lloyd

[ShuRugal]

I don't think so. You can get a good guess but the frequencies will depend on how busy things are and how many controllers are on duty. If its slow one controller may be working a large area and you don't get many hand offs. If its busy you could get a lot more handoffs than you normally expect. The frequencies on the charts are just for initial call up and depending on who is working what areas they'll give you the current frequency. Sometimes it even varies if its a military or civilian controller based on time of day.
-Robert

That's kind of what I was afraid of. But even then, having a list of possibles on my kneeboard would be better than nothing.

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[ShuRugal]

“Maps” are these really neat folded paper diagrams of the airspace. And now we have them on our EFBs electronically and you don’t have to unfold them !!!  There’s one for low altitudes ... it’s called the “Low Altitude Enroute Charts.” Above 18000’ ... there’s another one called the “High Altitude Enroute Chart.” They are really cool. They have Airways, Airports, NavAids, Intersections, Minimum Enroute Altitudes(MEA) , Minimum Reception and Terrain Clearance Altitudes within 22 NM (MOCA) ... Sector Safe Altitudes, and Sector Frequency Information? Maybe you’ve seen a “map” before? Most Instrument rated pilots have these “Maps” and look at them Enroute. In fact, we’ve actually learned how to read them!
thats right! You read correctly. We have “maps” and we actually know how to read them! Maybe you’d like to give it a try? 

Good, more condescension, that helps.

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[RobertGary1]

31 minutes ago, David Herman said:

It’s called a “map.”

Just for the initial call up frequency but what frequencies are actually being used depends on time of day, day of week, etc.

-Robert

[skydvrboy]

I understand what you are asking for and I don't think there is anything that will be correct every time.  I have had very good luck with the enroute charts, but they don't include any of the military GCA's that may be working an area at the time and they don't include approach frequencies you will be handed off to as you pass B or C airspace.  Most of the time you can get the GCA and approach frequencies by checking the AFD for various airports along your route.

A program or app that would provide a list would be great, or even a map that shows ALL the frequencies you will be handed off to, and their boundaries, as you go would be nice.  I have a radio that allows me to program in 8 frequencies and scroll through them one after another.  A great feature... until you are handed off to an unexpected frequency,

[jlunseth]

If you have a Garmin 430 or 530, spin the big button to NRST (all the way clockwise) and then the small button until ARTCC comes up, and that will usually give you the next frequency or frequencies, but sometimes there is more than one and it is up to the controller which to use. 

PS probably you know this, but sometimes ATC hands you off to another controller, and sometimes they just give you a new frequency to use for the same controller ("November 381 Sierra Papa, change to my frequency 1xx.xx").  Sometimes those alternate frequencies are not listed anywhere. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by jlunseth

[N6018Q]

2 hours ago, ShuRugal said:

Is there a tool or method I can use to easily plot out what ATC frequencies I should expect on a long flight?  I would like to be able to put together a preconfigured commo plan to help with handing of between controllers, so I'll know who i should be talking to on what freq in the event of a garbled handoff instruction, or a missed handoff.

Coincidentally I had exactly the same idea less than a week ago. I will be flying the same route through 3 different ARTCC's for the next year. I figured I could compile a small kneeboard list, but I've come to the same conclusion as the other posters here- no master list and the frequencies change often. Foreflight does list Center frequencies when you look up a specific airport within an ARTCC's area, which would at least give you a starting point to regain communications if you missed a Center call. Possibly not the best solution, but what I did was add an airport from each of the 3 areas I will be traveling through to my "Favorites" in Foreflight. That way, I'm only 2 taps or so from at least a starting point in regaining comms.

[Hank]

You can research and make a list, but that doesn't mean the one you will be given is on your list. The last time I flew past ATL ("stay out of the Bravo"), I think they gave me a total of six (6) Center frequencies plus one or two for Approach to make sure I stayed away. Can't be too sure of those pesky little planes, dontcha know?

Sounds like your best bet will be to keep track as you fly around, and see if common frequencies repeat on similar trips. While planning, I make a list of all ASOS / AWOS / ATIS broadcasts near my route, and when weather is sketchy I listen ahead. VOR names and frequencjes are also on my list. When weather is good, I can mostly ignore it.

[Oldguy]

I keep a running list of frequencies I use on a trip somewhere, and more times than not, the return has some different frequencies and sometimes even different controllers, depending on workload, hot MOAs, and the like. Even those times it is a trip with a quick turn it can not match. One technique I use is to listen to those flights heading in the same direction as I am (at least those showing up on ADS-B traffic) and see where they are switched. It helps entertain me when George is flying the GPSS.

[tangogawd]

I hate to say the word "map" again..... but I do use the "postage stamps" as I call them that are near my location, I usually preset the next freq along my route as I go, and when given a handoff freq just confirm thats the one. I fly in mountainous terrain and there are times the freq they want will not work, so I end up hopping around the "postage Stamps" until I get someone.  As far as what approach control freq to expect, the VFR terminal charts are good for those. And I just use the map page on foreflight.  Hope this helps. 

[Yetti]

IF you don't want to be a Map Luddite you can download the AFD from the FAA.   https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/

Put it into an excel spreadsheet.  Create a Vlookup by airport and input the airports near your route and get the freqs that you are seeking

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

I flew from Austin to Lincoln today. That crossed Houston, Fort Worth, Kansas City, and Minneapolis Centers. I use ForeFlight and with only the base Aeromap displayed and zoomed out a ways it shows the dividing lines between the Centers and the postage stamp freq's. I used that to pre-load them during todays flight. Every one was correct.

[kmyfm20s]

The enroute IFR chart on Foreflight or Garmin pilot has been the most dependable for me. The nearest button in high traffic areas will give you to many options and more than once they asked how I got them. Either way they will usually give you the proper frequency once you contact them.

[Andy95W]

I must be missing something here.  In 28 years of being a pilot, and 26 years of having an instrument rating and aircraft ownership, I never once felt the need to pre-plan what frequencies I may or may not get handed off to.  

And in probably 12,000 hours of IFR cross country flight I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually looked up the frequencies on the chart.

Seriously, what's the point and what aren't I getting?

[ShuRugal]

I must be missing something here.  In 28 years of being a pilot, and 26 years of having an instrument rating and aircraft ownership, I never once felt the need to pre-plan what frequencies I may or may not get handed off to.  
And in probably 12,000 hours of IFR cross country flight I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually looked up the frequencies on the chart.
Seriously, what's the point and what aren't I getting?

It's probably a symptom of too many convoy briefs, courtesy of Uncle Sam.

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[Andy95W]

2 minutes ago, ShuRugal said:

It's probably a symptom of too many convoy briefs, courtesy of Uncle Sam.
 

After 10 years in the Army myself, that is definitely a reason I can wrap my brain around.

[carqwik]

To the OP - the enroute frequencies are the least of any item you need to know in advance, if at all.  Controllers are very good at telling you the next freq, and if you miss it or don't respond, they'll say it again.  The most important thing on long x/c's is understanding wx, fuel, and alternates.  Even being off freq is no big deal...simply monitor 121.5 and they'll call you if you've been talking to them before and squawking a discrete code.

[Bryan]

With more modern coms, I too, don’t worry about what’s next. When I hear my call sign com across, my instinct is to touch the standby frequency button the the GTN and be ready to enter. “November five foxtrot mike” (get to entry screen).... enter the numbers as they read. In the GTN series you can enter only “215” for a 121.5, the first one is assumed, and depending on the digits thereafter it auto selects the last. Then I use the screen to read back and confirm before xfer to switch.

I realize not everyone has this or when I fly in older com airplanes, I keep a pen/paper handy and effectively do the same thing. Ready to write when I hear my call sign.

Foreflight does seem to help with the “postage stamps” as well as the “nearest” ARTCC function on the Garmin coms but in flight I don’t use them unless I get a missed handoff (happened before).

 

[Hank]

I write down all freq changes, along with who it is. I've had 90-minute flights with 11 frequencies, I'd never keep them straight. It sometimes comes in handy on the return trip, too--I've had to call a previous controller to open my flight plan when my area Departure wouldn't respond to me. The nice folks at Johnson AFB opened my flight plan.

[midlifeflyer]

As others pointed out, sectors have multiple frequencies and you may not even know whether you are going to be speaking to a Center or a TRACON (unless yo are already familiar with the area). Changing frequencies on the fly (so to speak) is one of my easier tasks so I don't worry about it much, but my SOP has two parts:

• I note the likely final Approach/Center frequency based on the AFD (or EFB equivalent). I guess when it's going to be next and put it in the backup. Sometimes right; sometimes wrong.
• I listen. If I hear hear a hand-off to another airplane going in my direction, I put that frequency in the backup. That's successful better than 90% of the time.