Shop breaks a part

[kris_adams]

If it's a shop you will be using, I'd just pay the bill or order the replacement part.  I'm pretty good friends with a shop owner and he always tells me how people try to work him down on price or gives me stories on how they are unreasonable towards him (I don't think you are in this case of course).  He quite often comps charges like this but I'm sure he will get it back on the next job.  He calls it the PITA factor--while it is not shown as a separate line item, it's definitely there.

Now would I want to take it to this shop that bangs out a part to get it loose?  Probably not.  If you do, you might have a few more parts to replace while they learn Mooney's-and that's ok too if you like the shop or they're convenient.  I love having a local shop that treats me right  and always has my back when things break.  I just pay these bills...maybe I shouldn't but I do.  In this case I'd also nicely give then instructions on how to do this in the future without breaking parts...they should get the message and they'll probably value you as a customer.  Good luck!

[MARZ]

52 minutes ago, Kris_Adams said:

  In this case I'd also nicely give then instructions on how to do this in the future without breaking parts...they should get the message and they'll probably value you as a customer.  Good luck!

I respectfully disagree with that statement.   There is an expectation of expertise when you go to a shop - especially when it comes to repairing aircraft.  The mechanic's ongoing training or oversight is not the responsibility of the customer.

[HRM]

1 hour ago, Mike Ropers said:

There is an expectation of expertise when you go to a shop...

Exactly! If the shop does not know how to work on Mooneys, then they should turn you away or tell you that their learning curve is going to be included with the final bill.

As for breaking things, well the only excuse I am aware of where the owner pays is when a corroded or grody fastener breaks. This story is just incompetence and the owner should never be responsible for that.

[kris_adams]

1 hour ago, Mike Ropers said:

I respectfully disagree with that statement.   There is an expectation of expertise when you go to a shop - especially when it comes to repairing aircraft.  The mechanic's ongoing training or oversight is not the responsibility of the customer.

I get it but you may not have the option to always use an experienced Mooney mechanic that knows every trick of the trade, plus sometimes 40 or 50 year old parts have reached their service life (or ability to be taken off and put back on at least) and they break...and I agree that it's not the owner's responsibility to train or oversee but doing so can save you money and aggravation.  I don't have the knowledge that others in the group have so I'm pretty much in the group that has to trust their mechanic and pay his bills...

[steingar]

3 hours ago, Kris_Adams said:

I get it but you may not have the option to always use an experienced Mooney mechanic that knows every trick of the trade, 

Why not?  I sought out a Mooney-savvy mechanic for my aircraft.  I honestly don't see what's so hard about it. 

[jetdriven]

You know I have been  working on these things for about eight years now and it’s extremely rare that I actually break something when I’m trying to get something else. But a lot of the stories I hear, you got to be kidding me. These are not very complex machines will you pay somebody $9000 for an annual and they put the wrong hardware on the magnetos and they don’t get the timing within 5° of each other it really makes you wonder about the viability of the whole thing. 

[HRM]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

These are not very complex machines...

No, but they are tricky. What I discovered is that you often have to take things off in a sequence and that sequence is not immediately apparent to someone who has never done it before. The other issue is tool access to bolts and screws. 

The major issue with Mooneys is the tight quarters. They squeezed it all in because of speed and efficiency and therein lies the rub. There are very few 'Mooney unique' things to my knowledge, it really is just basic A&P knowledge to work on it. It also helps to have fingers with eyes on them and as strong as pliers. I watched the master himself (KGGG) spend 45 minutes replacing a PC servo in one of my wings on the tarmac in front of his shop with an array of wrenches and pliers and such. All I thought was that I never wanted to have to do that.

Oh, then there's that d*mn ram air abomination on the E--that's a Mooney specific thing.

[chrisk]

There are two separate item here.  1) the broken gauge, and 2) banging on the top access cover.    I would be quite unhappy with any mechanic that would bang on an access cover to remove it.  That said, I am having a hard time imaging any amount of banging that would impart enough force to break the needle in a sight gauge.  Further when flying, (and landing) you get some pretty good jolts.  I'd spend the $40 for a new gauge and assume the part was end of life anyway.

And as far as yelling about the sight gauge, I'd skip it.  I'd be happy the mechanic was honest enough to call you.  The reality is the mechanic probably thinks he broke the sight gauge, but it could have been broken before he even touched the plane and he merely noticed it.   --Now if he hit it with a hammer, I would be yelling.

 

[Yetti]

On 5/14/2018 at 11:46 AM, M20Doc said:

Sit down and have a calm conversation, if the maintainer was newer/ younger it wasn’t entirely his fault, where was the supervisor?

 

Bingo!!   This is per the regulations.   That whole reg about having the capability to do the work.  It right there with having the manuals to do the work.  Someone without capability was allowed to work on a certified plane.  It's a regulatory violation.

 

forgot where I read this, but referring to negotiation.   Once you become emotional you have lost.   

Edited May 16, 2018 by Yetti

[0TreeLemur]

55 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Bingo!!   This is per the regulations.   That whole reg about having the capability to do the work.  It right there with having the manuals to do the work.  Someone without capability was allowed to work on a certified plane.  It's a regulatory violation.

 

forgot where I read this, but referring to negotiation.   Once you become emotional you have lost.   

Emotional -that is my problem.  I am passionate about wrong/right and when I perceive someone disagreeing with me about what I think is obviously the "right" thing to do, it really pisses me off.   I'm enjoying reading about this.  My fantasy self is calm and unruffled on the outside and Spock-like on the inside.  In reality my cheeks flush, my hands and voice shake and I get incoherent.

[RLCarter]

Not sure but it was mentioned by someone else, I think the hammering was to drive something between the flange on the plate, not trying to beat the plate loose, either way he needs his hammer taken away from him

[xcrmckenna]

It’s mid week, how are things going for you@billc?


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[BillC]

3 hours ago, xcrmckenna said:

It’s mid week, how are things going for you@billc?


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Haven’t heard a word. I’m waiting for them to call me. I’ll keep you all posted.

[BillC]

6 hours ago, chrisk said:

There are two separate item here.  1) the broken gauge, and 2) banging on the top access cover.    I would be quite unhappy with any mechanic that would bang on an access cover to remove it.  That said, I am having a hard time imaging any amount of banging that would impart enough force to break the needle in a sight gauge.  Further when flying, (and landing) you get some pretty good jolts.  I'd spend the $40 for a new gauge and assume the part was end of life anyway.

And as far as yelling about the sight gauge, I'd skip it.  I'd be happy the mechanic was honest enough to call you.  The reality is the mechanic probably thinks he broke the sight gauge, but it could have been broken before he even touched the plane and he merely noticed it.   --Now if he hit it with a hammer, I would be yelling.

 

No, the gauge was not broken.

[BillC]

UPDATE:

Apparently they had to remove 8 panels to access the leak. Tank was then vacuumed to remove sealing particles and refueled. It sat with fuel in the hangar for 3 days to be sure the leak was fixed. An inspector verified all work and signed it off as repaired. All seems OK. The total ended up being 1200.00 USD. 

They refuse to replace the fuel gauge saying that the Florida sun caused the needle to be brittle. Funny, the airplane is hangared all it’s life and never sits in the sun.

Oh well, I have my baby back now and I’ve learned a valuable lesson.

Thanks for all your input.

Bill

[xcrmckenna]

Glad you have your plane back. Will you give us the name of the shop. That way others won’t have to worry about damage cause from the terrible Florida sun...


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[BillC]

3 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

Glad you have your plane back. Will you give us the name of the shop. That way others won’t have to worry about damage cause from the terrible Florida sun...


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Yes, it’s American Aviation in Brooksville FL.

[BillC]

On 5/13/2018 at 12:24 AM, gsxrpilot said:

That gauge is $40. I just replaced one of mine. I’d still fire the shop.

Just called Laura at SWTA. their price is $95.73 USD.

[Dream to fly]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 10:10 PM, BillC said:

Wondering what your opinions are:

I have my Mooney in the shop here in Florida for a small seep in the right wing. The mechanic called to say when he was ‘banging’ on the top access cover (with the external fuel gauge) to remove it and, the needle broke off the inside the glass. He says the company is not responsible for damage caused during maintenance. My first question was “Why would you be banging on the access cover?” He said he needed to. In my own personal experience as an A&P, I’ve removed many fuel tank cover plates and have never had to bang anything. I didn’t explain to him how to safely remove these covers. I was not happy at the time so I’m letting the weekend go by to cool off and address this on Monday with the shop manager. The gauge is about $150.00 USD.

so.....should I escalate this to upper management or is this the way maintenance shops operate these days.

 

As a shop owner we'd own it and privately I'd have an employee meeting explaining the correct way to remove panels.  To the customer we'd be all over it and making it right as long as the communication was civil. Communication goes south then we buy the part and take a hike.  Nobody wins then!

[gsxrpilot]

41 minutes ago, BillC said:

Just called Laura at SWTA. their price is $95.73 USD.

Hmmm... Mooney has changed prices on a lot of stuff in the last month or two.

[mike_elliott]

6 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Hmmm... Mooney has changed prices on a lot of stuff in the last month or two.

could be, I bought one for CarolAnn's plane last Sept from Oasis for $63. Bill, these are simply RTV'd into place. While I am only 10 NM south of KBKV, I have never used American for any work, as there are way too many other good Mooney mx choices here in FL. 

 

 

[BillC]

50 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

could be, I bought one for CarolAnn's plane last Sept from Oasis for $63. Bill, these are simply RTV'd into place. While I am only 10 NM south of KBKV, I have never used American for any work, as there are way too many other good Mooney mx choices here in FL. 

 

 

Mike,

  I did call Arnold Holmes first but as all good mechanics, he was about four weeks out. Since I’m heading back to Maine for the summer, I couldn’t wait that long. Next winter I’d like to PM you and get your opinion  about other Mooney mechanics in our area if you wouldn’t mind.

 

Thanks,

Bill

[BillC]

UPDATE:

The tank still weeps. Same spot, same problem. Called Edison. He will do it when I get back to Florida.

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, BillC said:

UPDATE:

The tank still weeps. Same spot, same problem. Called Edison. He will do it when I get back to Florida.

They didn’t fix your leak but at least they broke your fuel gauge 

[xcrmckenna]

They didn’t fix your leak but at least they broke your fuel gauge 

To soon Lance, to soon.....


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