RETIREMENT AND AIRPLANE OWNERSHIP

[bonal]

My company has lost its way and each day it becomes more clear it's time to retire.  Sadly I dont work for the govt so do not have a crazy pension that promises to bankrupt the city county or state. What I do have is a resonable pension but will still see a big drop in income. Life is funny most things are time and money and we have one or the other. Soon I will have the time.  The good news is there will be no debt and our Mooney has been given lots of attention making it very reliable.  I think keeping it and continuing to fly will be in the cards and I am planning on other things that will with luck make me say god I wish I would have retired sooner.  Carusoam mentioned it might be a good line of discussion what thoughts and experience folks have had when life changes the status quo.  obvious change would be to take on a partnership but I would rather be a greeter at Wally World than let someone fly my plane without me in it.

This thread could be about what you have experienced or what measures you are taking to allow you to continue this wonderfully expensive hobby.  I know there are those with so much financial means that there really isnt a worry but for many it's a real concern.

[Mooneymite]

I retired at 57 in good financial shape.

In 4 months I was ready to go back to work.  Co-workers left at the same time as I did and thoroughly enjoy doing nothing.  I'm just saying leisure time isn't for everyone.

My post retirement job is more fun than my career job.  No regrets about taking a post retirement job.  Now nearly 70, maybe I'm ready for that leisure time?

Look before you leap.

[EricJ]

I'm 57 and have been semi-retired for about five years.   I still consult, but I've let the client list and workload taper off during that time and always enjoy not working.   When clients need something I generally don't turn them down, so that keeps me engaged but at a fairly low duty cycle.   I am, however, cursed with a long list of hobbies and interests that run the gamut of expensive/cheap and frivolous/time consuming.   So I never miss working because there's always something to do, which does also include some continuing work-related research just because I still enjoy it.

And I have plenty of time for airplane stuff, so that's really nice.

I expect for many people the finances will be the big issue, and I'd just suggest that if sufficient financial cushion does not exist such that covering the expenses of any particular hobby becomes a concern, then start planning an eventual exit for that hobby.   It can be a gradual exit, but I think what most people don't want is to wait too long and get trapped in a situation where an unexpected event (e.g., expensive annual, expensive mechanical failure, whatever), forces a situation that jeopardizes savings needed for living.   Having to decide between selling an asset for pennies on the dollar or spending too much of needed savings getting something in condition to sell is not a desirable outcome.   Worse yet is throwing away money paying hangar or tie down fees or insurance on something that becomes an unflyable derelict because the cost to repair is too high.

A friend in his eighties was a life-long pilot, and owned a long string of airplanes including an M20E, a Bellanca Viking, a C140 and a C170.    To me he was a good example of knowing when to quit, and now spends (much less) money on a motorcycle that he cruises around on every week with some buddies and gets his motor thrills that way.   

I think it's just the usual routine about being realistic about managing things.   If one has a reasonable plan going into it that includes either a schedule or some criteria for triggering an exit that may help in many ways.

[peevee]

2 hours ago, bonal said:

 Sadly I dont work for the govt so do not have a crazy pension

 

well, you chose poorly then.

[ArtVandelay]

took my first lesson a couple of months after forced retirement, been 6 years. I bought a plane 4 years ago that needed to be upgraded, was the 2nd lowest price J on the market. As my investments go, so does my upgrades. If market drops, I fly a little less and put off the upgrades. No pension, so I’m somewhat cautious. My estimated budget before purchasing was pretty close, I fly more than I thought I would. It’s been great.
I was born to be retired, never for second regretted it.

[clh]

I am like EricJ.  Retired 5 years ago at 52.  Was one of the best things I did.  Consulted for a period of time,  got my IR, working on  Comm and CFI.  The wife's employer wanted her to move to Europe, so what the heck we moved for a couple of years.  Now back in states,  I have a list of stuff to do that almost keeps me too busy to fly.   There are a few things to keep in mind.  

1. Make sure you can live on the money you have saved, pensions, etc.   .  (my parents suggested that we live on our "retirement" spend for a few years before retiring to make sure we are good to go)  Either adjust spending/lifestyle or delay exiting the workplace

2. If you go for a second career, make sure it is one you enjoy.

3. Make sure you have enough ideas of hobbies, volunteer work, etc to keep you busy.  Boredom is very bad!

 

 

[glafaille]

I have accepted that when I retire the plane has to go.  Not a problem for me since I learned long ago not to fall in love with "things".  I love my family, friends, pets and other people, but things not at all.  I'll sell the plane and get out of aviation altogether or maybe consider a simpler aviation solution!

Have you given thought to "Downsizing" your airplane in retirement?  Travel while working for a living is a different endeavor than traveling while retired.  While working you are time constrained, but when retired you are not, no need to be back on a certain day, or limited to a defined number of vacation days.  Therefore a slower cheaper plane might work as well as your Mooney since speed is no longer the priority.  Why not enjoy the journey in something slower and cheaper?

Perhaps a rag wing Piper might breathe a little adventure into your retirement travel.  They can be had for 1/2 the cost of a Mooney, fly on autogas, parts are readily available and inexpensive.  Plus they are stupid simple and cheap to maintain.  There is a whole world of grass strips and Fly Inns out there waiting!

I'm looking forward to a simpler retirement with a taildragger!

Edited January 11, 2018 by glafaille

[peevee]

23 minutes ago, glafaille said:

I'm looking forward to a simpler retirement with a taildragger!

I figure I'll build or buy a kitfox.

[Jerry 5TJ]

56 minutes ago, glafaille said:

I'm looking forward to a simpler retirement with a taildragger!

The heck with that. 

[nels]

I just read your profile and I have to say, and with confidence, you'll have no trouble keeping your Mooney m20d. Pretty easy to maintain if you have a reasonable mechanic to help you do annuals and repairs and sign them off. Hangar rent may be a luxury so you may have to tie it down. Fuel, insurance, annuals and tie down should be the bulk of the foreseen costs. As mechanically inclined as you probably are you should be able to retire and fly your Mooney. If you need a few extra bucks to support your habit, I'm sure you have the talent and brains to figure that out.

[DonMuncy]

23 minutes ago, David Herman said:

We’re nearly debt free.We’re getting close to retirement.  I’d retire now if I could!!!! 

Not having to work, or go to work is really great. It took me a month of so to realize that whatever I started one day, really didn't have to get finished at a particular time, and that I could either work on it if I wanted to, or stop and restart tomorrow (or next week) if I wanted. I have really enjoyed it. However, I am a plane owner and there is always something I can do at the hangar, so boredom isn't a problem, except during the winter when it is too cold to putter in the hangar. 

[kortopates]

Who said retiring includes slowing down?!?

I retired early from my career about 4.5 years ago. I am still below retirement age. But doing so enabled me to pursue my love of aviation full time and am surely not bored. Nor do I have lots of free time between all my aviation pursuits of instructing, working with SavvyAviation, a FAASTeam lead rep who co-leads a local IMC Club chapt and a adjunct very part-time college professor teaching - you guessed it aviation. The difference is I get to chose what I do with my time. But I only make peanuts compared to my career job, but I enjoy every minute of what I do now and don't have the stresses that came from working in the tech industry and perpetually struggling to maintain budget and schedule. 

Very saddened to read about those that feel they need to drop out of plane ownership at retirement.  The retirement years are the best time to take advantage of the Mooney and enjoy it while we still have our health to do so. I know its harder for those that aren't as lucky as myself with a spouse that enjoys aviation as I do. I have one friend that promised his wife, whom won't fly with him and feels its a waste of $, that he'll retire from flying entirely at age 70 - that's sad because he'son his last year if he can't re-negotiate that deadline. I hope none of you are in that position!

[kortopates]

4 hours ago, glafaille said:

I have accepted that when I retire the plane has to go.  Not a problem for me since I learned long ago not to fall in love with "things".  I love my family, friends, pets and other people, but things not at all.  I'll sell the plane and get out of aviation altogether or maybe consider a simpler aviation solution!

Have you given thought to "Downsizing" your airplane in retirement?  Travel while working for a living is a different endeavor than traveling while retired.  While working you are time constrained, but when retired you are not, no need to be back on a certain day, or limited to a defined number of vacation days.  Therefore a slower cheaper plane might work as well as your Mooney since speed is no longer the priority.  Why not enjoy the journey in something slower and cheaper?

Perhaps a rag wing Piper might breathe a little adventure into your retirement travel.  They can be had for 1/2 the cost of a Mooney, fly on autogas, parts are readily available and inexpensive.  Plus they are stupid simple and cheap to maintain.  There is a whole world of grass strips and Fly Inns out there waiting!

I'm looking forward to a simpler retirement with a taildragger!

My thought on why a slower cheaper taildragger plane would never replace a Mooney.

I assume most of us like myself acquired a Mooney to travel. What make travel so practical in the Mooney is that they go fast and of course the ultimate travelling machine are high performance, preferably turbo,  to top weather and have high tech avionics and redundant systems to be reliable IFR platforms in addition to being fun to fly long cross countries in. On the other hand the cheaper taildragger appeals to the pilot that wants to go low and slow and enjoy the scenery. But doing a long cross country in such a plane becomes very impractical for more reason than just the typical limited range. It only takes some head wind to greatly increase your enroute time to the point you'll postpone. Plus the long cruise times required and need for good VFR weather will dramatically curtail its utility. It's back to only being practical for those that enjoy that kind of flying. And that's really why a few pilots I know own both a cross country plane and a tail dragger to enjoy both types of flying. But I don't know of anyone that flies a small tail dragger as a traveling bird.

But no question a small tail dragger can be much more economical to operate. But I expect trading down so to speak will come with giving up the long cross countries for enjoyment of low and slow local flying. That sure beats giving up flying.

[Skates97]

I'm probably 15-20 years from retirement, but the plane will be an integral part of it. That's the best way I know of to go see grandkids. 

[Bug Smasher]

I'm in my 30's and a long way from retirement, but the way I see it: I would rather have a job and a Mooney than no job and no Mooney, if it ever comes down to that.

[gsxrpilot]

This thread is hitting pretty close to home...

[Rick Junkin]

I"m four years away from retirement, a year less if the market stays positive, and already living on our retirement spend. My wife retired last year, and has started a business that allows her to manage her time however she chooses. The Mooney is our "forever airplane", along with a low wing trainer (Zenith CH2000) that I plan to instruct in after I retire from my current gig. That, and a number of other aviation and non-aviation interests, will keep me occupied. About 5 years ago, before this round of airplane ownership, I projected what I expected our retirement budget requirements would be, doubled it, and set that as our target for our "fun chip pile" income generating end state. We're pretty simple people and don't live extravagantly aside from our aviation habit. We're still living within half of the retirement income target, and haven't had to change much.  It's a great exercise with a side benefit of increasing the funds available to grow the nest egg faster.

We're very fortunate to have combined pension income that will cover our subsistence needs and a little more. The airplane budget will ebb and flow with the income from the retirement fund. At some point I expect we will decide to let someone else do the driving for our air travels. I've identified, as I'm guessing others have, that physical health and financial health will be the two things that drive that decision. Pretty obvious, I know, but identifying them drives me to continually assess them honestly. It can be hard to be objective about either when you want to keep flying. I'd like to think that the chore of selling the airplanes will fall to my wife or the kids after I'm gone, but most likely I'll know when the time is right to step away.

Cheers,
Rick

[donkaye]

The word "Retirement" is not in my vocabulary.  It conjures up the image of being an unproductive person.  Having said that, I haven't worked for  anyone since 1975.  I started buying houses when I was 26 thinking that in 25 years they would be mostly paid off.  After buying a few I tried to talk my engineering cohorts into doing the same--unsuccessfully.  (They're probably still having to go to a job they may not like). That time and many, many more years have passed, so I have the perspective of much of a lifetime.  As Bob Brinker would say, I reached "Critical Mass" (not have to work at a job) by age 38.  Getting started on an investment plan early in life works.  Compounding works and inflation continues.  Be frugal until you don't have to.  Doing those things means that later in life you will not have to worry about whether you can keep your toys or have to give them up.  It also means you can have all the toys you want, and do whatever you want.  Planned properly, while others may have to work, you will have more income coming in than you would ever need without having to work at a job.

I also got my Private at age 26, but it wasn't until I was 49 that I decided to devote the "time" part of my life to aviation, and what a ride it has been and continues to be.  I chose to become an expert in one specific area of flying and that was the Mooney.  As a result, I think I have more teaching time in Mooneys than anyone else in the Country, and have never had to go looking for students.  Of course time was needed for that.  And I have met and worked with so many great people, and feel I have helped most.

So Retire?  Never!

[Bob_Belville]

I'm "retired" since 2001. Like many, I don't know how I found time to hold down a full time job... there is so much to do. 

I bought a Mooney and returned to flying in 2012 at age 69. I've been able to afford to make numerous improvements on a plane that had already been refined by a previous owner to be his perfect traveling machine in retirement. 

I had a nice career in manufacturing management and sales but I never made "big money" and I do not have a defined benefit retirement plan. But I have been a long time investor, mostly in US common stocks, and there is enough money for our fairly modest needs. The plane is a wonderful luxury... thank you Lord.

[Wayne Cease]

I'm working on putting together a partnership on a plane and three of the people I've talked to so far are retired.  Retirement is no reason to stop flying.

 

[Marauder]

Glad to see others are struggling with this decision as well. Felt like I was on an island on this topic. It also doesn't help having a parent who outlived their money. The challenge I have been struggling with revolves around predicting the unknown. And as pilots, none of us want to fly into a cloud without knowing what is in it. Retirement planning is a bit like this. Health issues, market changes and the rest of the unknown factors all play a role in making "the" decision. 

For my wife and I, the topic of retirement breaks down into 3 topics;

1) Health care costs. Medical coverage costs for us to retire before age 65 are significant. Be curious to hear (without political rhetoric) what others are seeing for these costs.

2) Another challenge as Junkman points out is the financial health topic. I struggle with this a lot. I have been tracking all of my household costs for the past 30 years and have a pretty good handle on our expenses. We are debt free but certainly have costs associated with owning a home and an airplane. Knowing how much to have saved should be simple math, but it is hard to see your funds being burned off.

3) Where to retire? There are benefits of retiring in some states (be curious what others have learned about this). Also being close to where the kids are located is important, also dealing with a wife who hates "hot" and me who is tired of "cold" all play into this discussion.

What I would love to know is for those who retired before 65 and have some experience managing their finances for a period of time, what are the pros & cons of retiring early? 

[steingar]

About ten years if I do retire, which I doubt.  My problem is I will not leave my colleagues short-handed, and there isn't any money hereabouts to replace me.  If I did, well I was the stupid one who tuned down a guaranteed state pension for a turn at the markets.  Color me foolish.  My thought is if I do retire, I can go to the local A&P school for free (school is free for retirees in my state).  Get my A&P, and trade the Mooney for a fast experimental.  I agree with the other fellow, old rag and tube airplanes aren't traveling machines, but the right experimental can be.  And if I don't have a job I'm going to be a traveling man.  And if I can get my A&P I can legally do all the work on said experimental thus driving down my costs.  I'd miss my Mooney, but we all do what we have to do.

[Browncbr1]

Similar to donkaye here...  I’m 38 and sold my business last summer and semi retired now.  Just putting my money into commercial realestate which returns well in excess of annual living and flying .   I’m volunteering benevolence flight missions and teaching at church and eventually will fly for fun for some local charter or corporate outfit.  The big key for arriving at this point is having never carried any debt and always living well within conservative means.   When I could have easily had an ovation or more, I bought an F.   I can’t imagine spending the rest of my life without a plane. 

[milotron]

Wow. Great thread.  

I am 45 and evidently missed the boat compared to some of you.

I am planning on retiring in 10 years but it is contingent on getting some corporate successorship in place and improving cash flow so I can actually pay out some dividends. No pension for me, so I need to make a big pile for myself and the wife.

The plans are to keep the Mooney in the family and within those next ten years I should have all the major capital costs covered for a forever plane, including a fresh engine, paint, avionics, etc. Just don't tell the wife that plan!

I'd love to increase my immersion in aviation once 'retired', either instructing or consulting in some fashion. My current business touches in aviation, but not to a satisfying depth. Lots of ideas though.

 

 

 

[MIm20c]

Retiring in your 30’s?  Guess I missed the boat as well.  Not sure if I’d be able to do that with family, home expenses, business expenses, etc.  Real estate has not had the exponential growth in my area and I could not imagine dipping into my investments this early with so many unknowns going forward. 

I guess I’ll just be the dumb bloke that continues to work hard so I can play hard.