Got ramp checked

[MyNameIsNobody]

My take is he did you a favor.  You screwed the pooch and he alerted you so you could take action.  What if you had flown and had a gear up while out of medical and without a current flight review?

Send the guy a bottle and say “Thank you”.

[tigers2007]

Again, how many ramp checks have you been subjected to? I think it’s relevant. 

I have never experienced one. I learned to fly out of an FBO that was next door to the FSDO at YIP back in ‘95 and I do recall hearing how it wasn’t rare for them to walk over and perform an inspection. I have heard claims that they might physically inspect the aircraft for dents and such and deem it unairworthy on the spot - I haven’t read anything to prove that though. Makes me wonder how it would go if the owner saw the initiation of a physical exam and were to yell CLEAR! and then fly away. Regardless, the flight school there prepped us for the likely occurrence of an inspection.

I was scouring Fed jobs last night and there seems to be a never-ending shortage of ASI’s. I’ve considered it in the past but it appears that I’ll need at least my ATP and CFI to be considered - all for a $60k/yr job. No thanks. Especially when airline FO’s are starting off at $40k+++.


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[neilpilot]

19 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

I have heard claims that they might physically inspect the aircraft for dents and such and deem it unairworthy on the spot - I haven’t read anything to prove that though. 

 

Many years ago (early 90s) I had my M20E parked on a ramp in VA and returned to see a tag on the prop.  The FAA had deemed it not airworthy, since there was a very slight amount of grease or oil on the inside of the blades near the hub.  I had recently completed an annual, and suspect that the grease was due to normal maintenance.  Simply had a A&P inspect and certify that I was airworthy.  He had a hard time understanding why the FAA felt otherwise.

[co2bruce]

The only official to ever visit me on the ramp was the sales tax guy here in Florida. 1st airplane purchase many years ago, and I was not aware of Florida use tax (6%). He asked me how I was enjoying my new plane and when I said it was great he asked me why the use tax wasn't paid. Apparently they write down tail numbers at the airport and any new plane in Florida for over 6 months is taxable. No penalty, but a big bill I was not expecting. I hate unexpected ramp visitors ....

[midlifeflyer]

BTW, reading this should take some of the mystery (not to mention the glut of misinformation) out of ramp checks (although I am sure it will justify some folks' paranoia; there no way to deal with that). It's the official FAA Order describing the duties and limitations of ASIs when they "Conduct a Part 91 Ramp Inspection."

Edit: I should also add my friend Greg's excellent discussion of ramp checks on his website: http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Articles/RampCheck.shtml

[midlifeflyer]

On 11/29/2017 at 9:21 AM, Oldguy said:

FAA must be getting bored. 

These days they are pretty rare. ASIs don't have time to go hang out at an airport looking for trouble. Most occur when an ASI happens to be there for some other reason and happens to have some extra time or sees something that makes him wonder.

There are definitely exceptions (we had a guy in the Denver area years back who had it in for flight schools and make it his business to build mountains out of nothing) , but most end exactly how they started, with a polite greeting and a handshake. A lot of bad ones are the result of a pilot saying or doing something stupid.

[flyboy0681]

Seems to me that stories about these popup inspections are far and few between and when we hear about one everybody goes into hysterics, much like the Border Patrol horror stories that we got caught up in a couple of years ago. Why haven't we heard anything recently about Blackhawk's descending upon small GA airports? Have they stopped their practices? 

[Marcopolo]

  So, Hypothetical situation,  A guy who has no pilot's license or medical, and I don't mean he's not current, I mean he's never had either.  If he gets caught, what can the FAA do?  There's no pilot's license to suspend, do they call in local law enforcement and cite him for something?

 

 Sorry for the tangent, just curious.

 

Ron

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

BTW, reading this should take some of the mystery (not to mention the glut of misinformation) out of ramp checks (although I am sure it will justify some folks' paranoia; there no way to deal with that). It's the official FAA Order describing the duties and limitations of ASIs when they "Conduct a Part 91 Ramp Inspection."

Edit: I should also add my friend Greg's excellent discussion of ramp checks on his website: http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Articles/RampCheck.shtml

Nowhere in there does it say "seize airman certificate ".  Thanks for the information. 

[flyboy0681]

3 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Nowhere in there does it say "seize airman certificate ".  Thanks for the information. 

I noticed that as well.

I did notice the word "please" several times.

And before reading this, I had no idea that IFR operations in a helicopter was such a complex endeavor.

[nels]

On 11/29/2017 at 9:39 AM, tigers2007 said:

 

Who cares about the “ticket” in lieu of an avalanche. Being brutally submissive leads to a full vehicle search, finding a nearly empty bag of weed or cocaine left behind by some kid who rode in the back seat two years ago and fell out of his/her pocket between the seats, or other questionable items in the car that lead to more questioning and exploration etc etc etc. YES - I agree with your point IF and ONLY IF you are 100% clean and have nothing to hide and know 100% that everything is in order. I’ve dealt with countless people who apparently were not 100% in order like they thought. I tell friends and family to do a thorough search of their newly acquired used car or after their miscreant friends go for a ride with them. I’ve seen way too many situations go from so-so to absolute horrible. All because the person was “too honest”...

There was a day when that hypothetical bag of weed found rotting on the floor between the rear seats would be stomped out on the shoulder of the road and gone forever. Thanks to the increase public inquiry, the practice of common-sense discretion went out the window when HD cameras capture every one of my movements.

Regardless, there is a line that needs to be drawn when conversing with any on-duty enforcement minded bureaucrat. Okay - you’re correct about handing over the ARROW or cert documents. But answering any questions surely increases the potential for problems.


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Your comments are funny and also bring back a certain memory. Back in my younger days I purchased a used Lotus Esprit in San Francisco. I had it delivered to my home in Cincinnati and then proceeded to drive that very conspicuous car like it was meant to be driven. After a month or so I decided to give the interior a very thorough cleaning. In doing so I uncovered the proverbial  bag of weed left behind by the prior owner. He had stashed it between the seat and the console. I sure would have had a problem explaining that during a traffic stop. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by nels

[Raptor05121]

Nels, your comments are hard to read, I'm using the Blackout theme and your text is appearing grey color with a white highlight.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

Nowhere in there does it say "seize airman certificate ".  Thanks for the information. 

LOL! 

You should see the paperwork generated when the FAA does want to seize an airman certificate. Even if the pilot wants to give it up!

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, Marcopolo said:

  So, Hypothetical situation,  A guy who has no pilot's license or medical, and I don't mean he's not current, I mean he's never had either.  If he gets caught, what can the FAA do?  There's no pilot's license to suspend, do they call in local law enforcement and cite him for something?

 

 Sorry for the tangent, just curious.

 

Ron

The FAA has two basic options:

• Assess a civil penalty (akin to a fine);
• Refer the matter to the US Department of Justice for federal felony prosecution. The criminal offense of operating without a pilot certificate carries a maximum penalty of 3 years in federal prison and a maximum fine of $250,000. And yes it had been used.

[Marcopolo]

Just now, midlifeflyer said:

The FAA has two basic options:

• Assess a civil penalty (akin to a fine);
• Refer the matter to the US Department of Justice for federal felony prosecution. The criminal offense of operating without a pilot certificate carries a maximum penalty of 3 years in federal prison and a maximum fine of $250,000. And yes it had been used.

Okay, guess I'll finish up that PPL pronto, thx  

 

Ron

[midlifeflyer]

1 minute ago, Marcopolo said:

Okay, guess I'll finish up that PPL pronto, thx  

 

Ron

 

To get to the criminal stage, it's usually pretty egregious. As an example, back in 2014, there was a guy in Tennessee prosecuted for a second offense. He ended up with 6 months in federal prison and 1 year of supervised release*.

[*By way of explanation, there's no parole in the federal system. What you get is what you serve except, as I recall, some "good time" credits for sentences greater than a year. When you finish your sentence, you have a period of "supervised release" which is similar to the parole supervision concept]

[flyboy0681]

Just now, midlifeflyer said:

 

To get to the criminal stage, it's usually pretty egregious. As an example, back in 2014, there was a guy in Tennessee prosecuted for a second offense. He ended up with 6 months in federal prison and 1 year of supervised release*.

[*By way of explanation, there's no parole in the federal system. What you get is what you serve except, as I recall, some "good time" credits for sentences greater than a year. When you finish your sentence, you have a period of "supervised release" which is similar to the parole supervision concept]

Bubba: "Hey man, what are you in for?"

John: "flying a plane without a license"

 

[midlifeflyer]

Just now, flyboy0681 said:

Bubba: "Hey man, what are you in for?"

John: "flying a plane without a license"

 

He's going to be better off than the guy to took the tag off the pillow

[Marauder]

Probably find a few felons that were convicted of playing mailbox baseball as well.


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[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

The FAA has two basic options:

• Assess a civil penalty (akin to a fine);
• Refer the matter to the US Department of Justice for federal felony prosecution. The criminal offense of operating without a pilot certificate carries a maximum penalty of 3 years in federal prison and a maximum fine of $250,000. And yes it had been used.

What did they do to the Bare foot bandit? I understand he is out now and wants to get a for real PPL....(yea right...)

 

[midlifeflyer]

7 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

What did they do to the Bare foot bandit? I understand he is out now and wants to get a for real PPL....(yea right...)

 

I really haven't followed that one. The last I heard, about a year ago, he had started a GoFundMe page to raise money for flight training but was shut down and the money applied to his restitution. If he got the book deal, he might be able to pay it off. Action on his medical application should be interesting

Have you seen anything new?

[tigers2007]

 
He ended up with 6 months in federal prison and 1 year of supervised release*.
[*By way of explanation, there's no parole in the federal system. What you get is what you serve except, as I recall, some "good time" credits for sentences greater than a year. When you finish your sentence, you have a period of "supervised release" which is similar to the parole supervision concept]

This is crazy. I have seen people who have embezzled millions of dollars never sit a day in jail - just probation. It’s my understanding that is how it goes with “victimless” criminal acts. Where I’m at, the US attorneys office doesn’t care about anything. The State system, though, inflicts harsh sentences. In my experience, one would rather be handled by Uncle Sam rather than a state court.



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[Guest]

It might exlain this.

 

[TonyK]

When I lived in Florida there was a 70+ year old gentleman who used to fly a Cessna 140 around.  He lived on an island in the St. Johns river and flew in and out almost every day.  He never had a license. He had bought the airplane and taught himself to fly it.   We were discussing what would happen if he ever got caught and came to the conclusion that if he had busted the Orlando B or done something equally silly that he would get off with a much lesser fine than any of the certificated pilots in the conversation..  To my knowledge he passed before ever getting caught.  The point being that there is a huge difference between illegal and caught.  It's a game of chance.

[flyboy0681]

2 minutes ago, TonyK said:

When I lived in Florida there was a 70+ year old gentleman who used to fly a Cessna 140 around.  He lived on an island in the St. Johns river and flew in and out almost every day.  He never had a license. He had bought the airplane and taught himself to fly it.   We were discussing what would happen if he ever got caught and came to the conclusion that if he had busted the Orlando B or done something equally silly that he would get off with a much lesser fine than any of the certificated pilots in the conversation..  To my knowledge he passed before ever getting caught.  The point being that there is a huge difference between illegal and caught.  It's a game of chance.

I take it he didn't carry any insurance either.