Propeller Question - What would you want?

[FlyWalt]

Hi guys,

I am in the midst of preparing 231LR for sale. The three things that she needs is:

   - MT Prop overhaul

   - Repaint the upper and lower cowling.    (Previous owner used to love grass strips I think)

  - Redo the interior

My question is this. I upgraded to the MT Propeller back in 2013. I absolutely LOVE flying behind this smooth quiet prop. It has made climb outs a total pleasure with the performance. However, If you were buying a Mooney, would you gravitate to a sexy high tech, high performance  prop that needs more maintenance than the low tech two blade McCauley.

Right now I am weighing out the following decision:

     1.   3.5 to 4.0 AMU's to overhaul the MT

     2. Purchase a McCauley with 125 SOH for 3.9 AMU's then sell the MT with a damaged blade for whatever I can get for it.

If it's just about saving dollars then option 2 is the way to go. However, I wonder if that High Tech MT hanging on the front would enhance the resale process and reduce the time on the market.

Thank you in advance,
Walt

[Oldguy]

If I recall previous discussions, there is a nice UL increase with the MT, isn't there? As an added benefit to the cool factor of the MT, increased UL always is a good thing.

[FoxMike]

If it were me i would repair the MT although I am learning how slow MT is at doing anything but selling and promising.

[FlyWalt]

What is UL?

As far as promises from MT, I can not say I have been done wrong by them. My expectations of the performance seem to have been in line with what I have experienced. Excellent climb perf improvements combined with a very smooth and quiet ride has been my experience.

However, the cost and time of repairing these props is commensurate with the process of dealing with any product made of composite materials.

My only serious disappointment is with the damage that is done by picking up small rocks that cause dings to the leading edges. Once the nickel sheath that protects the leading edge is punctured then the blade needs to be overhauled.

[Hank]

UL = Useful Load

The composite MT props are supposed to be several pounds lighter than the 2-blade aluminum props, and many pounds lighter than my 3-blade Hartzell . . .

For a turbo, I'd stick with the MT. Climb is good!

Edited November 10, 2017 by Hank

[FlyWalt]

It is interesting that you mention useful load. I was just digging through the aircraft paperwork pile and found the updated Weight and Balance for that install. The McCauley weighed 58.4 lbs. The MT weighs 47.4 lbs. Only an 11 lb gain in UL. But then again, it is a gain of UL. I would favor the MT

[Oldguy]

16 minutes ago, FlyWalt said:

It is interesting that you mention useful load. I was just digging through the aircraft paperwork pile and found the updated Weight and Balance for that install. The McCauley weighed 58.4 lbs. The MT weighs 47.4 lbs. Only an 11 lb gain in UL. But then again, it is a gain of UL. I would favor the MT

What is the total UL of the plane? Only 11 lbs. can change it from 890 to 901. Never underestimate the power of that first number.

[Raptor05121]

If I were shopping for a K, the model with the MT prop would rank very high compared to others that are equally equipped. The thing I hate the most about my 3-blade is how heavy it is. Hypothetically, going to a MT prop would put me almost to 1,100lbs useful load, and I'm sure pick up a few knots.

[KSMooniac]

I'd fix the MT without question. I'd go with repair, not overhaul, on such a young prop too. It is a very desirable upgrade for all of the reasons mentioned. Getting weight off the nose of any Mooney is always a good thing.

Leave the interior to the next caretaker...you might not choose what a buyer wants, and you'll likely only get half of your money back at sale, unless you do the labor yourself. I'd rather do my own interior if I were buying again.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[Parker_Woodruff]

Why does your MT need overhaul?

[FlyWalt]

Parker,

There is a split that has developed on the nickel sheath that protects the leading edge of one blade. Moisture can not be allowed to get underneath that or else it could start delaminating.

The airport where she has been based for the past 4 years has older concrete for the taxiways and runways. Read , lots of little pebbles and debris to pick up during slow taxi or beginning of the take off roll. I expect that this damage is due to cumulative effects of multiple hits

[flyboy0681]

Is the MT available as a two blade solution?

[FlyWalt]

I do not think so.

[Raptor05121]

They have 2-blades, but I don't think they have an STC for any Mooney's yet, I might be mistaken.

[bradp]

As a pretend future buyer I'd be sure the reasons for prop work are well documented. 99% of the time recent prop work in an advertisement means a prop strike.   Your case is different but all the future buyers may be keyed up and start asking about engines etc.  

As the president pro tempore of the cheap bastards club I’d be somewhat concerned about a prop that needs 4K of work every 4 years in the setting of pretty normal use.  I have flown in a J with a 3-blade MT and they are cool - a bit quieter less vibration and good climb performance - but I would not make a certain prop a must have with the type of flying we do.  Too bad about all these issues with the leading edge guard and delamination.   

[carusoam]

Note regarding UL...

If I dropped 11 pounds off of the nose, there would be another 11 pounds that would be removed equidistant from the Cg Going the other direction...

In a long body, we swap out Charlie weights that are near the batteries.  Not equidistant, so the amount of UL improvement gets even bigger...

This magic is provided by both W & B...  props are pretty far from the center of gravity, so the balance becomes more important, compared to weight in the back seat...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

14 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

They have 2-blades, but I don't think they have an STC for any Mooney's yet, I might be mistaken.

You are correct. There are STC's for the various Mooney models for either 3 or 4 blade props.

[bradp]

Why all the issues with paint delamination and with that metal leading edge guard?  

Do the composite props form other manufacturers have the same problem?

[DonMuncy]

It is my understanding that was a problem earlier; that has been resolved. At least I sure hope so.

[Txbyker]

4 hours ago, bradp said:

Why all the issues with paint delamination and with that metal leading edge guard?  

Do the composite props form other manufacturers have the same problem?

Original German paint spec to comply with strict EU requirement.  Since modified.  Original props had short stainless edges and now uses  longer nickel. 

Russ

[Andy95W]

To answer the original question- I would pay extra for a 231 with a freshly overhauled MT prop than the standard prop. 

[gsxrpilot]

I would love to have the 4 blade MT prop on my 252, but alas it's only STC'd for the long bodies.