Mooney M20J Prebuy

[Jethack737]

Hi all. New member here. I'm currently in the market for an M20J. I found a 1978 201 with around 6000 hrs on airframe and around 850 SMOH. It's had   a pretty recent paint job along with interior, and is fairly close to home. The aircraft is listed at around $85,000. The airplane is currently out of annual, but is scheduled for one in the first part of Sept. The aircraft is being sold by a dealer, and annualled by a mechanic who works for the dealer. 

I haven't purchased an. aircraft since the 70's, so i am far from being an experienced buyer. Would it be reasonable and prudent to have a mechanic of my choice do a Prebuy inspection while the airplane is in it's annual? Can anybody recommend an experienced Mooney mechanic in or around the Sacramento area that could perform a prebuy? Thanks!

Rick

[N6758N]

Just now, Jethack737 said:

Hi all. New member here. I'm currently in the market for an M20J. I found a 1978 201 with around 6000 hrs on airframe and around 850 SMOH. It's had   a pretty recent paint job along with interior, and is fairly close to home. The aircraft is listed at around $85,000. The airplane is currently out of annual, but is scheduled for one in the first part of Sept. The aircraft is being sold by a dealer, and annualled by a mechanic who works for the dealer. 

I haven't purchased an. aircraft since the 70's, so i am far from being an experienced buyer. Would it be reasonable and prudent to have a mechanic of my choice do a Prebuy inspection while the airplane is in it's annual? Can anybody recommend an experienced Mooney mechanic in or around the Sacramento area that could perform a prebuy? Thanks!

Rick

Lake Aero (LASAR) is one of the best in the area. Have the airplane flown there for a pre-buy.

[ArtVandelay]

27 minutes ago, N6758N said:

Lake Aero (LASAR) is one of the best in the area. Have the airplane flown there for a pre-buy.

Obviously being out of annual prevents this from happening till the annual is complete.

[KSMooniac]

Perhaps the seller might be willing to entertain a shared cost annual at LASAR as it would be a nice selling point vs a quickie annual by his mechanic. If so, it might be simple to get a ferry permit to move it to LASAR for a PPI/annual.

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[N6758N]

6 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

Obviously being out of annual prevents this from happening till the annual is complete.

Ferry permit...

[ArtVandelay]

5 minutes ago, N6758N said:

Ferry permit...

but  I thought a ferry permit requires some reasonable explanation, and telling them you want to fly it just to have a prebuy done, and another ferry permit to return it...not sure how that will go over, guess it doesn't hurt to ask.  Personally Id wait, never know, the annual could discover something catastrophic and save you the prebuy.  Not to mention just going over there in the middle of the annual and sticking you head in for a closer look might be educational.

[N6758N]

20 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

but  I thought a ferry permit requires some reasonable explanation, and telling them you want to fly it just to have a prebuy done, and another ferry permit to return it...not sure how that will go over, guess it doesn't hurt to ask.  Personally Id wait, never know, the annual could discover something catastrophic and save you the prebuy.  Not to mention just going over there in the middle of the annual and sticking you head in for a closer look might be educational.

A ferry permit doesn't require a reasonable explanation. All they know is you have an airplane here and you want to move it there. Most likely for the OP, the plane could be moved post annual for the pre-buy at LASAR eliminating the need for a ferry permit. 

[RobertGary1]

Ferry permits are pretty easy to get but I've never heard of getting one for any reason other than to get an annual. I'd be surprised if you could get multiple to just fly around and get pre-buys.

 

-Robert

[Guest]

You could let him do the annual but let him know you want LASAR to do the PPI afterwards, with the understanding that any airworthiness issues LASAR finds will be repaired before proceeding.  

Clarence

[Firebird2xc]

5 hours ago, Jethack737 said:

Hi all. New member here. I'm currently in the market for an M20J. I found a 1978 201 with around 6000 hrs on airframe and around 850 SMOH. It's had   a pretty recent paint job along with interior, and is fairly close to home. The aircraft is listed at around $85,000. The airplane is currently out of annual, but is scheduled for one in the first part of Sept. The aircraft is being sold by a dealer, and annualled by a mechanic who works for the dealer. 

I haven't purchased an. aircraft since the 70's, so i am far from being an experienced buyer. Would it be reasonable and prudent to have a mechanic of my choice do a Prebuy inspection while the airplane is in it's annual? Can anybody recommend an experienced Mooney mechanic in or around the Sacramento area that could perform a prebuy? Thanks!

Rick

N644DD?  In Chico?  Sounds like it.  I researched this airplane thoroughly and was a little put off by the seller.  Formerly owned by a Seattle flight school with questionable maintenance practices...   Get a thorough prebuy and don't believe a word that salesman says.  

 

http://aviationdb.net/aviationdb/AircraftDetailPage#SUBMIT

[mccdeuce]

Buy this one instead: better deal - I have no connection to the aircraft.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/20746955/1978-mooney-m20j-201

[Firebird2xc]

27 minutes ago, mccdeuce said:

Buy this one instead: better deal - I have no connection to the aircraft.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/20746955/1978-mooney-m20j-201

That's a nice looking bird.  I notice it has an aftermarket turbo.   Do the J engines hold up well with those?  I understand K model 231 turbos were problematic and not really refined until the 252...

 

[ArtVandelay]

35 minutes ago, mccdeuce said:

Buy this one instead: better deal - I have no connection to the aircraft.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/20746955/1978-mooney-m20j-201

I'm going to take a guess and say with full fuel the payload might be enough to carry 2 people.

[peevee]

4 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Ferry permits are pretty easy to get but I've never heard of getting one for any reason other than to get an annual. I'd be surprised if you could get multiple to just fly around and get pre-buys.

 

-Robert

Got one once to fly a 414 home with the legs stuck down. I wasn't the pilot. Just working there 

[Ron McBride]

I flew a 310 on a ferry permit for an annual, gear down of course.

Ron

[peevee]

34 minutes ago, N803RM said:

I flew a 310 on a ferry permit for an annual, gear down of course.

Ron

Why gear down?

This one was stuck because the fbo broke it. Incompetent shop wanted 40 hours to flush the fluid before they  would hook it up to their mule and troubleshoot it 

[mccdeuce]

4 hours ago, teejayevans said:

I'm going to take a guess and say with full fuel the payload might be enough to carry 2 people.

So 96 gallons and 2 people should leave about 50# baggage no? And you don't have to take 96 gallons.

or am I missing something. My UL in my J is 1000#s

[ArtVandelay]

So 96 gallons and 2 people should leave about 50# baggage no? And you don't have to take 96 gallons. or am I missing something. My UL in my J is 1000#s

 

Turbo +24

Built in O2 +25

Electric Vac backup +15

96x6 +476, plus weight of tanks installation

Fire extinguisher +10

He lists 2 autopilots (century and STEC)

Yea, 2+50 is about right.

 

 

 

 

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, teejayevans said:

He lists 2 autopilots (century and STEC)

The Century IIB tracks nav and levels the wings. The STEC PSS (Pitch Stabilization System) holds altitude.

[Jethack737]

Thanks for all the responses guys. Yes it is in fact the one in Chico I was looking at. I was also looking at the one in Spokane that teejayevans said to buy instead which is advertised in Controller. Does anybody know anything about the after market turbo that one comes equipped with? Pros - cons? 

[KSMooniac]

That Turbo Bullet mod was pulled from the market in the 90s after a fatal accident in one of the equipped planes. An AD later restricted the MP to 33" as well. It uses low compression pistons, so it is less efficient than a stock J in terms of MPG, which makes it similar to a 231 but with only 4 cylinders. With a good engine monitor and a knowledgeable pilot, it is probably fine.

The later aftermarket turbo system (M20 Turbos) was very similar, but retained the stock high compression pistons and was a true turbo normalizer that had a max MP of 30". More efficient than the Turbo Bullet mod, but otherwise almost the same. This mod is also off the market and both are orphans today. The basic components are still serviceable, though, when needed.

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[N9201A]

I haven't purchased an. aircraft since the 70's, so i am far from being an experienced buyer.

Huge change is availability of information, as you're discovering. You should be able to obtain FAA records. Check title, and use the AOPA or another escrow service to safeguard your funds. Control the pre-buy and define what that means, as there is no set definition. But you want the mechanic working for you, and skeptical. That can be done by prepaying the shop an agreed-upon fee.

Like Reagan said, trust, but verify. And like virginity, credibility is only lost once. If you catch a lie, walk away! There are too many solid aircraft and sellers to monkey around with any squishiness.

Good luck Rick.

[thinwing]

Back to your question about a Sacramento area mechanic..I can suggust a few besides lasar or top gun...which airport is annual being done?

[Jethack737]

It's being done at Chico , (KCIC), sometime in Sept.

[gsxrpilot]

If you want a turbo, get a K. If you want a normally aspirated, get a J. A J with a turbo doesn't make sense to me.

I sure like my K 252. But unless there are high mountains that a J has to go around and the K can go direct, or unless there are strong favorable winds up in the flight levels, I'd wager the J is as fast A to B as the K.