Too much plane... Plane gets ahead of new pilot... Etc...

[Yetti]

As my transition trainer said (ex F18 pilot) There are no "dual" fighters.  flip that, turn that, push that and there you go, it is all you.

[Tom]

On 16/08/2017 at 5:30 AM, Capitalist said:

At flight school the other day my instructor dropped subtle hints about some guy buying a $&@;# and basically people buying planes that he believes are beyond their training....

The reason they call old wive's tales "old wive's tales" is because they really get the hens cackling. 

So back to the cackling.

 

[jaylw314]

5 hours ago, Yetti said:

As my transition trainer said (ex F18 pilot) There are no "dual" fighters.  flip that, turn that, push that and there you go, it is all you.

I thought the F/A-18 had two seat training variants (as did many other fighters)?

[PMcClure]

11 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I moved into single engine turboprop.  My insurance quote  required initial training (5 days) then 25 hours TT in type before carrying passengers. Of that 12 hours accrued in training.  After surviving 1st year insurance was 30% lower.  

 

 

16 hours ago, AndyFromCB said:

Who quoted you that? 500 hours of complex high performance, simulator training plus 25 hours of mentor time was what I got when I flew for our old insurance company. Mentor time was only because I had no prior turbine experience. That 25 hours came in really handy learning arrival procedures. To me that was the only surprise, STARs take a while to get right. Other than that, it was easier to fly than any other piston. Cross the threshold at 80, make a good landing, cross the threshold at 120 make a good landing. But dealing with 3000fpm descents with speed and altitude restrictions took some getting used. But on the other hand crossing FAF at 160 was never an issue like it can be in a piston. There was pretty much zero engine or fuel management, instead you had to deal with dialing in pressurization but I think even that went away in the G1000/G3000 aircraft. Miss that airplane, do not miss my former employer at all.

There were quite a few people that moved on up from Cirrus to Cessna Mustang at a couple of hundred hours but that's because Cessna had a deal with a few insurance companies that would insure anyone with a Flight Safety type rating and Flight Safety made an exception to the 1000 hour requirement for the Mustang that they have for all other type ratings. 25 hour mentor time was a requirement as well.

I didn't look hard. I agree, the TBM or other single Turboprop shouldn't be the that much of a learning curve (flying it anyway). 

[Cooperd0g]

19 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I thought the F/A-18 had two seat training variants (as did many other fighters)?

Yes, most do. The A-10 did not have dual trainers to my knowledge and I'm not sure the F-35 will, but the F/A-18, F-16, F-15 all had some dual trainers at their respective training squadrons. Having said that, you don't fly many dual flights. By then you have a few hundred hours in the trainers and a bunch of simulator time in your platform. 

[Bob - S50]

1 hour ago, Cooperd0g said:

Yes, most do. The A-10 did not have dual trainers to my knowledge and I'm not sure the F-35 will, but the F/A-18, F-16, F-15 all had some dual trainers at their respective training squadrons. Having said that, you don't fly many dual flights. By then you have a few hundred hours in the trainers and a bunch of simulator time in your platform. 

Ya, we called those the 'family' models.

[supersoldier71]

As a private pilot-in-training, I can say that I've gotten behind in a 172.

Without delving into the esoterica of learning theory, what I've found is that the remedy is only partially achieved in the air. The rest is produced by thorough review and analysis of what was done in the air. What went right? What went wrong and why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skates97]

2 hours ago, supersoldier71 said:

As a private pilot-in-training, I can say that I've gotten behind in a 172.

Without delving into the esoterica of learning theory, what I've found is that the remedy is only partially achieved in the air. The rest is produced by thorough review and analysis of what was done in the air. What went right? What went wrong and why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got behind the Cherokees I trained in on more than one occasion. One of the more interesting things I experienced in my PPL training was task saturation where your mind can't take on another task. Often it resulted in my CFI taking over the radio calls over the practice area do I could continue to concentrate on flying the plane. With more practice the radios and other tasks became second nature so that I could do more and more. By the end of my PPL I think I can say I never got behind the plane. 

100+ hours into my Mooney ownership and every now and then I still get a little behind it. It's not just that there's a few more things to do with the prop and gear, it's just that you're going faster so you have to plan ahead better. 

[Bob - S50]

I'm sure we've all been behind the plane enough at one time or another.  I've even been overwhelmed with the FMC in a 757 to the point that I turned it all off and just flew the airplane by hand.

My take on how to stay ahead of the plane:

1.  Do as much on the ground as possible so you don't have to do it in the air.  Look up frequencies, airspace restrictions, terrain considerations, review approach plates.

2.  If I'm flying and sitting fat, dumb, and happy; there is probably something I can do now so I won't have to do it later when things get busy.  Get the ASOS/ATIS, load the approach, set the navaids, pretune the next comm frequency, review the approach again, and slow down if need be.

3.  Know how to use all your equipment.  Having to figure out how to do something with your GPS or autopilot while flying wastes time.  Know what it can and can't do and how to do it so it becomes second nature.

4.  Practice, practice, practice.  The more you practice, the more your mind starts to catch up with the speed of your airplane.

Just my two cents worth.

[steingar]

The only airplane I ever got behind was the Mooney, and it only really happened once.  It really isn't all that difficult,  just a bit of math and a bit of planning.  I actually thought I was a bit high and fast on my last approach and was contemplating a go-around, but a bit of a slip and a little throttle discipline and it all went just fine.

[cliffy]

My 0.02  worth after 55 years doing this flying stuff?

Training is one thing, experience is another.

All the training in the world can't replace experience!

My mantra-

You're not a safe pilot until you are "tempered" and you are not tempered until you make a mistake in an airplane that scares the crap out of you and YOU know you made the mistake.

Once you are tempered, flying takes on an entirely different perspective.

 

 

 

 

[supersoldier71]

4 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I got behind the Cherokees I trained in on more than one occasion. One of the more interesting things I experienced in my PPL training was task saturation where your mind can't take on another task. Often it resulted in my CFI taking over the radio calls over the practice area do I could continue to concentrate on flying the plane. With more practice the radios and other tasks became second nature so that I could do more and more. By the end of my PPL I think I can say I never got behind the plane. 

100+ hours into my Mooney ownership and every now and then I still get a little behind it. It's not just that there's a few more things to do with the prop and gear, it's just that you're going faster so you have to plan ahead better. 

Precisely.  Humans can attend to a great many things at once, but can only focus on one thing at a time.  Training and practice can allow us to perform  even complex tasks autonomously while focusing on something else.  I'm a musician, and it required a lot of reps to be able to sing expressively and play at the same time.  I had to be able to play autonomously, that is, my hands had to "know" what to do so I could focus on singing on time and on pitch.  Which I still mess up from time to time, I'm not a great singer.

As this applies to flying it took two lessons before I could maintain straight and level flight (which is kind of a fiction anyway) and talk on a radio.  Before I had ankle surgery, the coordination required to guide a 172 with my feet and talk on the radio--or answer my CFI's questions--eluded me.  Fortunately our brains are designed to accommodate these types of things, moving them from effortful--like babies learning to walk--to autonomous.  

[carusoam]

Fun facts...

1) Knowledge and experience are stored in different areas of the brain...

2) The knowledge, once gained takes a long time to forget...

3) The experience, for some, begins to rust after just a few days and can be completely erased over time...

4) Learning to fly a second time is quite interesting, some of it comes back quickly. Remembering it all gets more difficult with time....

 

On a smaller scale, learning to drive a manual transmission car is also one part knowledge and another part experience...

 

Experience has a lot of fine detail memorized like 'situations' in baseball.

OK, maybe that is only fun facts for me...

Best regards,

-a-

[cliffy]

Baseball is a cerebral game!

[Hank]

9 hours ago, cliffy said:

Baseball is a cerebral game!

Didn't Yogi say that baseball is 90% mental, and the other half is physical? Looking at the players at the time, though, I'm not sure I believe it was even a third physical, much less half . . . .

[Bob_Belville]

How about my Sox this month! Papi who? Not really.

[Mooneymite]

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to get behind any airplane.  All you need is a copilot named Jim.

https://youtu.be/rX1p-uB6Tco

[XXX]

7 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to get behind any airplane.  All you need is a copilot named Jim.

https://youtu.be/rX1p-uB6Tco

LOl, "Jim I know you're kind of busy but I'm real busy over here too." 

Newspaper headline "Continental pilot arrested for jamming pencil into Captain's eye"

[Jerry 5TJ]

Ex SR-71 pilot said, "You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3."

 

[gitmo234]

I’ve gotten behind in a couple different types. To this day when I do I can hear my first CFI in my head saying “just fly the airplane” and “fly first, communicate second”. “Just fly the airplane” came into play when a deer jumped out in front of me after touching down and slowing down. I was in that zone where I couldn’t stop and there wasn’t enough room to get enough speed to get get off the ground. In a split second I froze, I heard “just fly the airplane”.... realized there really wasn’t anything I could do except be prepared for impact and a red windshield. A second before it hit the deer jumped out of the way, narrowly missing and going under the wing. 

 

That being said, whatever you start your training in will establish your baseline. Starting in a VFR only 1960 C150 with original avionics will make the jump to complex a lot harder than starting in something more advanced. If all you’ve ever trained in was a king air, that will be what you know.

In the real world, my jump from a ‘56 172 to a Mooney E after not flying a year was incredible and overwhelming at first. Old cessnas were primarily visual so the windshield was huge and you felt like you were about to fall out of it. The panel was tiny and 2nd priority. Mooney was the opposite. Transition training was tougher and I still have a lot to improve

[cliffy]

Actually I have a good friend who actually knew "Jim" in the film  He was a People Express pilot at one time. 

[Samurai Husky]

@bradp

My pager was broken

Not sure what to say that my famous thread doesnt say already;

I trained in a SR20, so going to the 22 wasnt much of a change other than the additional HP, but since i was already familiar with the planes characteristics it didn't feel much different except with when to start descending and making sure you arnt approaching the pattern at 180knts; oh and the massive amount of right rudder you need on take off. Having the power is nice for go arounds and short runways (mines a TN) having the turbos on a hot day makes a big difference. 

Going from a steam 172 to a sr22 i think would be a challenge; nothing is impossible, but thats between you and your CFI. You need to get a HP endorsement anyway and he isnt going to endorse you unless you can fly the plane. 

In general, there are a lot of pilots out there that rush though their training, then rush to get a bigger plane once they get their PPL, those are the people that scare me. People with 50 hours flying a SR22 and dont even know how to talk on the radio properly. I almost had 100hrs when i got my 22; I think if i had gone the mooney route after my PPL, i would have needed at least another 20hrs of instruction; Heck even with 250hrs and my IFR i would still need that much time 

[carusoam]

Hey!  Sam Husk is visiting!  

Any dog flights lately, Sam?

Any change to the priority list?

So many questions...

Best regards,

-a-

[Samurai Husky]

Yea, so tons happeand this summer and nothing to do with flying

I put my house up for sale in feb to cash in on the bay area market craze; didnt sell; Put it up again in May with the agreement that my dogs would not be around (the agent paid of staging, cleaning etc) so ended up flying them down to AZ to live with the rents for a while; Got to use my IFR for the first time to get through the marine layer (had to leave early because weather in phx was est to be 109F by 11am  )  tower was closed so had to call ATC on the phone.. nice lady answered and had no idea what she was doing. Supervisor helpped her, but then she gave me 2 clearances which confused the hell out of me. It was 'cleared to kffz via the published odp, turn 090 within 1mil of the airport (route) climb to 3500, expect 5000. What confused me was that the ODP and turn 090 within 1 mile conflicted with each other; eventually she said, just turn 090 within 1mi. BTW the ODP is direct SJC.... got IFR release on the ground with ATC, who said; as soon as you can call me back i have 5 flights coming in and i have to shut down the airspace for you); called him 800ft off the ground, vectors me WAY the hell out of the way, then hands me off; next guy takes over... ask him for higher since i was still at 3500ft... he said 'what the other guy didnt tell you to climb?,, me: no, him: expedite your climb to requested alt, turn 20d right to avoid terrain.... me: well crap.. thanks for telling me., i cant see #%@. 

Canceled IFR around LA thinking i would be nice; Got to PHX airspace and was basically told 'stay out of the bravo, stay out of the surface area of scottsdale and deer valley, stay below 4000 ft.. blah blah blah; basically i dont want to here but cant tell you to go away either. Got below 4k and the temps were already in the 100's; Landed 10lbs lighter from sweating, dogs were hot but fine. 

Ended up selling the house 2 weeks later for more then asking; Started to panic because i had no place to live; Rushed out and bought a new construction spec house because there was literally nothing left; Pros paid cash for the house and it has 1gb fiber internet for $70/m cons, at the departure end of runway 30 of KTCY.... pros, i can ride a bike to my plane (1.5 mi away). Cons, touch and gos on runway 30 putting planes 100ft above my house. Im devising a plan to put a giant sheet on my roof that says 'if you can read this, you missed base'

Plane went in for annual Aug 2nd.... still in annual because of back ordered parts. Figured since it was torn apart i should do the upgrades i needed/wanted. Ended up putting in the CiES fuel system, boom beam landing light and the orion strobe/nav lights. Should get it back either tomorrow or monday; Mid oct flying to vegas to have the chute done.

Ended up doing the CiES because i had a scare a while back where a fuel sender went bad mid flight; Thought i was going to run out of gas in the middle of the desert. Since it was $1200 for the sender anyway, i decided to upgrade.  

Literally had 40k in stuff due for the plane this quarter because of life limited parts, annual, chute, insurance, taxes, maps...... All the money from selling the house found a new home in my mechanics wallet.  Good news is my compression's are still rockstar, so at least i dont have to worry about the engine anytime soon, but now too poor to go anywhere. I knew this stuff was coming up, so i have been saving like crazy; still underwater a little bit, but should be debt (except plane) free by jan. 

Next summer will be the summer of samurai  I have a buddy down in Tampa who wants to get his ppl in the spring, he wants to get his float licence and fish off the keys; so i think that would be really fun. Im also looking into a Alaskan caravan trip. 

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, Samurai Husky said:

Yea, so tons happeand this summer and nothing to do with flying

Literally had 40k in stuff due for the plane this quarter because of life limited parts, annual, chute, insurance, taxes, maps...... All the money from selling the house found a new home in my mechanics wallet.

Nice to have you drop by. That was quite the busy summer. I got in a little over 60 hours of flying from June through Labor Day Weekend.  

We still need to meet up sometime. I've been flying to Phoenix quite a bit to visit family there so maybe when the weather cools down we can work that out. If not maybe meet up to catch Spring Training next year since it didn't line up this year.

Looking at your stuff due I'm glad I went the Mooney route. It's not as new or fast as your plane, but I spent less on it that just what you had coming due.