M20F is the same as an M20J?

[Raptor05121]

20 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

That is with tailwind and the trip is fun.  Buck a head wind and it sucks.   I'd like to get it to do both.  And yes I know you can't have both but I am sure I can get better and I fully understand that speed costs money and affordability determines top speed. 

I think there is an Eagle for sale in the classifieds. 175KTAS right there.

[Dream to fly]

Just now, Raptor05121 said:

I think there is an Eagle for sale in the classifieds. 175KTAS right there.

I'd jump on it but I am stuck with this F model and will never recoup what I got into it.  So until I can win the lottery I am stuck modifying this one.  I'm ok with it but I want actual gains not chrome valves covers giving me magazine speed.

[Dream to fly]

43 minutes ago, Mooney_Mike said:

This is a my F w/ the cowl mod, had it done 2 months ago.

That is gorgeous absolutely what I'd like to do after all the mechanicals are taken care of.

[TheTurtle]

J rivets are counter suck or something I thought?  It also has the air inlet suct for the vent on the tail instead of sticking up on the roof.

I thought lopresti did a bunch of stuff to the F to make it a J.  Yea you can do some mods like the windsheild and cowl and one peice belly.  But will it ever reallllly be a J?

[Dream to fly]

4 minutes ago, TheTurtle said:

J rivets are counter suck or something I thought?  It also has the air inlet suct for the vent on the tail instead of sticking up on the roof.

I thought lopresti did a bunch of stuff to the F to make it a J.  Yea you can do some mods like the windsheild and cowl and one peice belly.  But will it ever reallllly be a J?

I have a few mods like gap seals and one piece belly.  The windshield is next.  I just want the performance.  I don't care what it's called as long as it flies fast and efficient.   

[M20F-1968]

The four best speed mods for any F model are:

1) 201 windshield

2) J model cowling (needed for speed mod #3)

3) RayJay Turbo Normalizer (gets you to altitude where you can get > 170 kts TAS

4) Long range tanks (no fuel stops and 1500 mile range)

Taken together with modern avionics = a very capable airplane with is also affordable to operate.

The other speed mods, gaps seal, etc... are just gravy.

John Breda

 

[Dream to fly]

25 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

The four best speed mods for any F model are:

1) 201 windshield

2) J model cowling (needed for speed mod #3)

3) RayJay Turbo Normalizer (gets you to altitude where you can get > 170 kts TAS

4) Long range tanks (no fuel stops and 1500 mile range)

Taken together with modern avionics = a very capable airplane with is also affordable to operate.

The other speed mods, gaps seal, etc... are just gravy.

John Breda

 

I am keeping a copy of this list.  I am going to get a new windshield because the previous owner used an abrasive that scratched it and when the sun hits it just right it is near impossible to see out of.  I was looking at RayJay turbos but they won't sell one for an airplane that is not already equipped with one they lost the STC from what their website says.  I have bladder tanks so adding bigger or more should be easy. 

[KSMooniac]

The poster right above you has a refurbished Rajay kit for sale that will fit your F, complete with STC papers.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Think BIG.

Hey, is the economy still growing?

The J is an F, but more aerodynamic.  Thanx, Mr. Lopresti!

Newer Js are even more aerodynamic than older Js.  Thanx, fiberglass bits and pieces!

Os are only Js with a few stretch marks.  And a spare set of cylinders.

Lopresti moved out on his own and built that very nice cowling and a couple of other things.  His family still runs his company.

Updating an instrument panel is available to all Mooneys...

Adding a TN is a nice way to add power during cruise...  FF increases to go with that performance, but, air friction is less at altitude, tail winds can be stronger too...

MS is great at helping other pilots spend their money...

Best regards,

-a-

[Ron McBride]

I have an F with most of Lasar's mods, windshield etc. Original cowl with Lasar closure.  Top prop and a 1600 hour motor.  It looks like a 150 kts to 152 kts.  I have not flown much cross country with this set up yet.  Altitude and temps will effect your speed.

With 64 gallons of fuel, 5 1/2 hours are easy with reserves, 6 hours if you are careful.

On a 1000 mile trip, do the math, at 175 5.7 hours plus the climb, at 150  6.66 hours plus the climb.   You may need a fuel stop for these, add 2 hours to the times.     That 25 kts might cost a 100 amu.

Now, if I had a turbo, ???

Ron

[jetdriven]

12 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

You want 175KTAS out of an F model? I think that's a tall order for a N/A IO-360. You would probably need a Rajay turbo-normalization kit and/or an IO-540 to acheive those speeds. Correct me if I am wrong, fellas, but a J model is a 155KTAS airplane. There is no way you'll get 20 knots out of speed mods alone. You simply need more power to overcome the drag. The closer you get to 200KTAS, the costs go up exponentially. See any long-body Mooney, Cessna T210, Bonanza with a 550, or Cirrus SR22.

What's the fascination with 175KTAS? Are you really trying to shave a few minutes off your hops? Do you do long distance flying? Screw the speed mods, get a bladder kit and extend your tanks. In some respects, a fixed-gear Cheroke 6 is faster than most Mooneys when it can bypass a fuel stop.

My J will do 172-173 knots at 1000'. Same fuel burn as a Bonanza at that speed too, 15 GPH. 

[Dream to fly]

I'm sure that an F model can be made to go fast. Don't get me wrong I'd love to own an Ovation or a TBM but reality says I am stuck with what I have.  So its time to shop for used parts and good deals and start the transformation.   I know it can be done I've done this to many things I've owned all I ask for is info that is accurate.  I know there are a lot of people that think this is crazy so was building the Hoover Dam.  I am not building a show stopper I'd love to but I'd rather a performance platform and take it as far as I can afford.   Who knows I might with powerball and buy the Mooney Factory and all new planes will be turbine powered and anyone that helps gets a free bird.   It can happen

[Dream to fly]

19 minutes ago, N803RM said:

I have an F with most of Lasar's mods, windshield etc. Original cowl with Lasar closure.  Top prop and a 1600 hour motor.  It looks like a 150 kts to 152 kts.  I have not flown much cross country with this set up yet.  Altitude and temps will effect your speed.

With 64 gallons of fuel, 5 1/2 hours are easy with reserves, 6 hours if you are careful.

On a 1000 mile trip, do the math, at 175 5.7 hours plus the climb, at 150  6.66 hours plus the climb.   You may need a fuel stop for these, add 2 hours to the times.     That 25 kts might cost a 100 amu.

Now, if I had a turbo, ???

Ron

I left hazen ND, stopped in Stevens PT WI filled then stopped in Flint Michigan topped off and a potty stop then flew into Shirley NY.  Round trip fuel and hanger space at 60 a night for five days was right at 1400.00.  I forgot to ad up the gallons but the most I took was 42 gallons that was from NY to Flint.  I had a 15knot headwind.

[M20F]

1 hour ago, N803RM said:

I have an F with most of Lasar's mods, windshield etc. Original cowl with Lasar closure.  Top prop and a 1600 hour motor.  It looks like a 150 kts to 152 kts.  I have not flown much cross country with this set up yet.  Altitude and temps will effect your speed.

With 64 gallons of fuel, 5 1/2 hours are easy with reserves, 6 hours if you are careful.

On a 1000 mile trip, do the math, at 175 5.7 hours plus the climb, at 150  6.66 hours plus the climb.   You may need a fuel stop for these, add 2 hours to the times.     That 25 kts might cost a 100 amu.

Now, if I had a turbo, ???

Ron

My F turbo is 160-170kts at FL190-210.  It still climbs like a pig (about 50 mins to 250) because of cooling needs.  Unless you are really driving range it doesn't work out unless a strong tail wind and I commute between Chicago and NJ regularly, seldom use the turbo in the summer.  In the winter ice becomes limiting.  I can get 150-155 in the mid teens but again unless the wind is blowing I would rather add 20 mins to the flight than suck on O2.

I plan 140kts and usually what I see at 65% and around 9.8-10.2gph.  

[Drumstick]

14 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

The poster right above you has a refurbished Rajay kit for sale that will fit your F, complete with STC papers.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

Who has this?   Is it IO-360 specific or does the STC also work on an O-360?

[Alan Fox]

The J has a different engine and prop ...

[jetdriven]

15 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

I am keeping a copy of this list.  I am going to get a new windshield because the previous owner used an abrasive that scratched it and when the sun hits it just right it is near impossible to see out of.  I was looking at RayJay turbos but they won't sell one for an airplane that is not already equipped with one they lost the STC from what their website says.  I have bladder tanks so adding bigger or more should be easy. 

I don't think you can add fuel capacity besides the 64 gallons n bladder mod. Monroy 100 gallon tanks are another different stc. 

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Drumstick said:

Who has this?   Is it IO-360 specific or does the STC also work on an O-360?

John (@M20F-1968) has his on an M20F with a IO360-A1A. He has a "spare" that he has offered here. He'll have to tell you which engine(s) it could be used on. I considered it for my E which also has an IO360-A1A but I have a Powerflow Exhaust that I like and that I'd have to give up. Or so I understand.

[M20F]

3 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

John (@M20F-1968) has his on an M20F with a IO360-A1A. He has a "spare" that he has offered here. He'll have to tell you which engine(s) it could be used on. I considered it for my E which also has an IO360-A1A but I have a Powerflow Exhaust that I like and that I'd have to give up. Or so I understand.

You also need a whole new cowling and an assortment of other things.  It isn't a cheap or easy swap these days.  There are also 2 STC's one for the engine (easy to get) and 1 for the airframe (impossible to get).  John would have to comment but the airframe STC might only be for an F. 

[M20F-1968]

The RayJay system I have for sale is the original RayJay system with the manual wastegate.  It was built specifically for the F and E model using the stock cowling.  

It is really quite easy to install and is essentially a bolt on system.  If one wanted to upgrade the cowling, you could use the LASAR cowl closure, or use Sabermachanic's newly developed cowling (or if you can find it,  SWTA's STC'd cowling, which is similar to Sabermechanic's cowling since is still uses the original cowling frame and airbox).  

The system I have is STC'd for the Lycoming IO-360 and I have both STC's, one for installing the system on the engine, and the other for installing the turbo normalized engine into a Mooney E or F model.

It makes for a much different airplane.  The benefits far exceed those with a powerflow exhaust in that in gives more speed, and given the ability to fly high, much more speed and efficiency up high, along with the ability to overfly weather and pick your best altitude for taliwinds.

John Breda

[jetdriven]

THat won't fit a J model will it 

[BRBENNETT]

On 8/14/2017 at 10:35 PM, Marauder said:

 

I live for finding other crazy people like me! I just noticed you have a 430 in your panel with the 650. Do they cross feed each other?


Dream... The 1975 and 1976 F panels are 201 style. The 1974 is not. This is my 1975 panel.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

yes, the 430 & 650 will cross talk.   they did not at first when i installed.  

Very nice panel!

 

[RobertGary1]

On 8/15/2017 at 1:01 PM, Alan Fox said:

The J has a different engine and prop ...

Eh. From the factory the engine has a counterweighted crank but Lycoming hasn't made the old A1A's in a couple generations so anyone who's replaced an engine has the same A3B6 in the F as the J.

-Robert

[bonal]

to the op. Seems like you got your F going pretty close to normal speeds and that you have things sorted out but want to now modify it to make it into a super fast F which is a noble concept but we all know how expensive mods can be perhaps it would make more sense to get what you can for your F and then spend perhaps less money that you would spend on a bunch of mods that may or may not produce the speed you want and just lay it down on a 231 or 252

Just sayin

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, bonal said:

perhaps it would make more sense to get what you can for your F and then spend perhaps less money that you would spend on a bunch of mods that may or may not produce the speed you want and just lay it down on a 231 or 252

Just sayin

I considered that myself. But at least in Californian there is an almost 10% tax on the purchase that throws the numbers out of wack. So I bought my new lycoming out of state and now buying my new panel as much out of state as possible to save the ~10% tax. 

-Robert