Amelia Earhart Mystery Solved?

[Jeff_S]

Anybody else see that special on Amelia Earhart on History Channel last night? I have to say that while I went into it expecting another insipid show with breathless speculation shouting all manner of ludicrous conclusions, I found they did a decent job uncovering at least credible evidence for their hypotheses. The theory still rests on very little physical evidence, but it is pieced together into a story line that does make sense.

In case you haven't heard, the theory is that after not finding Howell Island because they had navigated too far north under cloudy skies, they used their fuel reserve to head back west and landed on an atoll of the Marshalls. They were then picked up by the Japanese who eventually took them to Saipan and held them as American spies, and ultimately executed them.

The supposed conspiracy is that the government actually knew all this at the time because they had broken the Japanese code and intercepted messages, but felt it more important to keep this code break secret, in essence sacrificing Earhart and Nolan. That's the part that breaks down for me. I know we broke the Japanese code, but I don't think this happened by 1937...otherwise we wouldn't have suffered Pearl Harbor (unless of course you believe Roosevelt allowed it to happen so he could get into the war...PSHAW!).

I have left out all the parts about the evidence they show so as not to spoil it, but if you have seen the episode, what are YOUR thoughts?

[carusoam]

I've seen the one photo...

They were happier times when the photo was taken.  Being critical of the media hype that occurs around this day every year, I assumed the undated photo was taken in the days prior to the final flight...

I think I have sat through Geraldo Rivera presenting a safe from some famous criminal in Chicago...

If that wasn't enough, Geraldo presenting the safe that was brought up from the Andrea Doria... nothing more useless than a soggy safe full of Lire after decades of poorly controlled inflation and losing a world war...

Now if Geraldo is presenting the details of Amelia's flight... I'll know better than to stay up to watch it.  It will be recorded for watching at my convenience, after a dozen MSers say it's ok to watch...

Color me skeptical...

Sorry for their untimely loss. But if there is any evidence, we will see it. It probably won't wait for an anniversary of any kind, to be presented.

I've been following the photo as it has been printed in the newspaper that is known for covering aviation tragedies with incredible misrepresentation of any detail...  UsaToday! 

Best regards,

-a-

[RLCarter]

Watching it now 

[HRM]

To keep a secret like that for so many years by so many people is just preposterous to me.

[Yooper Rocketman]

I watched it last night and have always had an incredible interest in the outcome of her flight.  They've got a lot of evidence that supports their theory, and have approached it, in my mind, with completely open eyes.  If you watch the special in entirety, it's hard to not see the possibility this is a valid discovery.

Tom

[ragedracer1977]

One major problem with their biggest piece of evidence... It was published in a Japanese Travel guide in 1935.  2 years before she went missing...  Sorry to burst the balloon. 

Website is in Japanese - This is the website of the Japanese National Diet Library.  The equivalent of our Library of Congress.

http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1223403/99?platform=hootsuite

Edited July 11, 2017 by ragedracer1977

[N201MKTurbo]

17 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

One major problem with their biggest piece of evidence... It was published in a Japanese Travel guide in 1935.  2 years before she went missing...  Sorry to burst the balloon. 

Website is in Japanese - This is the website of the Japanese National Diet Library.  The equivalent of our Library of Congress.

http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1223403/99?platform=hootsuite

Wow, nice find! I watched the show too. They are full of it. She ran out of gas and is at the bottom of the ocean.

[ragedracer1977]

Just now, N201MKTurbo said:

Wow, nice find! I watched the show too. They are full of it. She ran out of gas and is at the bottom of the ocean.

I wish I could take credit...  I found it on another website.

[Jeff_S]

Okay, that does change things considerably, if it's true. How do you see a translated version of that Japanese website?

[Bob_Belville]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

 

Now if Geraldo is presenting the details of Amelia's flight... I'll know better than to stay up to watch it.  It will be recorded for watching at my convenience, after a dozen MSers say it's ok to watch...

Stay up to watch it? Who are you kidding, as best I can figure, you're up at all hours of the night, without Geraldo.  

[Jeff_S]

8 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

One major problem with their biggest piece of evidence... It was published in a Japanese Travel guide in 1935.  2 years before she went missing...  Sorry to burst the balloon. 

Website is in Japanese - This is the website of the Japanese National Diet Library.  The equivalent of our Library of Congress.

http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1223403/99?platform=hootsuite

So how does one determine this was published in 1935 in a Japanese travel guide? I have done the best I can at translating the website and some of the text, but I don't see anything there about a date or the source of the original publication. I'm not saying that's NOT true, but if you found this on another website, how do we determine the veracity of THAT website's claim? (Perhaps if you read Japanese you can translate the script in the photo itself...I couldn't do that with Google tools.)

The whole thing really could be an endless chain of speculation, but work is slow at the moment, so it's fun to keep chasing it down...

[ragedracer1977]

The side bar on the left contains the publication date.  It says 1935.  I have no way to verify the veracity. 

[Jeff_S]

Okay, here is a link with more info about a Japanese blogger who found evidence the photo was taken in 1935.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/11/blogger-discredits-claim-amelia-earhart-was-taken-prisoner-by-japan

If you follow some of the other links there-in, including the actual blog post which you can translate into some semblance of English, then it does appear that the main source of evidence for the new theory is falling apart. I agree with the blogger...it seems this should have been the first thing the investigators would check out, to verify the date and origin of the photograph.

So I will set aside this fun obsession for another year, until some new evidence comes to light at the next anniversary!

[flyboy0681]

11 hours ago, HRM said:

To keep a secret like that for so many years by so many people is just preposterous to me.

Exactly my feeling. Humans are terrible at keeping secrets.

[Bravoman]

 Putting aside what the history channel postulates, it is significant to note that there were multiple codes used by all sides during the war. We cracked different codes at different times, and I believe I recall that we cracked the Japanese diplomatic code before their naval code.

[Marauder]

Exactly my feeling. Humans are terrible at keeping secrets.

Ok, where's Jimmy Hoffa?


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[flyboy0681]

2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Ok, where's Jimmy Hoffa?


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Everyone knows he's under the goalpost at Giants Stadium.

[jkhirsch]

For the sake of argument...maybe the Japanese purposefully dated the photo in order to further the cover-up.

There's no way of knowing that the date attributed to that photo is correct, Japanese National Archive or not. I'm sure we could dig through the more familiar US archive and find things that were inadvertently or advertently dated incorrectly.

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by jkhirsch

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, jkhirsch said:

For the sake of argument...maybe the Japanese purposefully dated the photo in order to further the cover-up.

There's no way of knowing that the date attributed to that photo is correct, Japanese National Archive or not. I'm sure we could dig through the more familiar US archive and find things that were inadvertently or advertently dated incorrectly.

 

Love it! A good conspiracy twist.

[Yooper Rocketman]

20 hours ago, jkhirsch said:

For the sake of argument...maybe the Japanese purposefully dated the photo in order to further the cover-up.

There's no way of knowing that the date attributed to that photo is correct, Japanese National Archive or not. I'm sure we could dig through the more familiar US archive and find things that were inadvertently or advertently dated incorrectly.

 

I was thinking the same thing.  If they DID execute an innocent civilian (Fred Noonan, I got the impression Amelia would have died due to health reasons) there was certainly motivation to play with the information in light of the world's view of the Japanese at that time.

That aside, there was a lot of interesting information brought forward, and many residents that validated the landing on the island didn't even know who Amelia was.  All I am advocating is we don't close the doors on any possible outcome.  I'm hoping the answer is found before I leave this world as I find the whole adventure simply amazing (a woman aviator trying to round trip the world back in the 30's, with instruments and technology most pilots today wouldn't fly across our country with).

Had I started this thread, the topic heading would have been "Interesting Possibility On The Amelia Earhart Disappearance".  I clearly am not ready to call this "Solved".

Tom

[Marauder]

Why I question the photo has clearly to do with the Japanese treatment of prisoners. Do we really think if the Japanese had them in custody, they would look like they are a couple of tourists? Perhaps it could be argued that the photo was taken before their "capture" but considering what we know of her, she would have motivated to let people know she survived.

Like Tom, I would love to see this mystery solved.


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[ragedracer1977]

3 hours ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

I was thinking the same thing.  If they DID execute an innocent civilian (Fred Nolen, I got the impression Amelia would have died due to health reasons) there was certainly motivation to play with the information in light of the world's view of the Japanese at that time.

That aside, there was a lot of interesting information brought forward, and many residents that validated the landing on the island didn't even know who Amelia was.  All I am advocating is we don't close the doors on any possible outcome.  I'm hoping the answer is found before I leave this world as I find the whole adventure simply amazing (a woman aviator trying to round trip the world back in the 30's, with instruments and technology most pilots today wouldn't fly across our country with).

Had I started this thread, the topic heading would have been "Interesting Possibility On The Amelia Earhart Disappearance".  I clearly am not ready to call this "Solved".

Tom

She refused to learn how to operate a radio, assumed everyone else would do it for her, she got lost, ran out of fuel, and crashed into the ocean.  It's really not a mystery, IMO. When I was much younger, I was very interested in Earhart.  I even did a pretty comprehensive report in 8th grade.  Back then, we didn't have Google or the internet, really.  I read A LOT on the topic.  Old encylopedias,books, etc that I had to locate using the Dewey Decimal System (I wonder if kids still learn that!). People have a desire to know where she ended up.  They want to believe that she didn't mess up and that someone else is responsible.  Everything I've read about her indicates she was a "bold" pilot...  Well, she didn't end up old.  

 

What Earhart didn't comprehend was that she couldn't just fully rely upon the Itasca to find her and give her a DF steer. She was going to have to perform adequately on the radio herself in order to facilitate getting the bearing to the ship. And in this task, she failed horribly, even from the outset, before the flight began, when she had every opportunity to learn the correct techniques and work out the times, frequencies, and modes for the attempted contacts and homing signals. And to practice DF work over and over until she was totally comfortable and confident with it. She was repeatedly approached about this and offered help, but for whatever reason she repeatedly refused it; Paul Rafford, Jr. of the PAN AM radio division related the story of when his engineer met with Amelia in Miami to discuss radio and recommended changes and improvements to the aircraft station. To his shock and dismay, she blew him off with, "I don’t need that! I’ve got a navigator to tell me where I am!” And others had a time of it as well when trying to coach her up on the use of the radio prior to the flight. It seemed she would not learn how it worked or how to properly operate it. Art Kennedy remembered that when Paul Mantz tried to train her, she just nodded and said finally, "@#$%!, I will just turn the knobs until I get what I want!"

[Yooper Rocketman]

Geez rageracer..........tell us how you REALLY feel.

:>)

Tom

[thinwing]

This whole thing is brought to you by TIGAR.....they have been soliciting dough from naive people in order to spend lots of time traveling,checking out far away places ..i.e. A nice vacation!.Years ago ,they claimed to have found a piece of the Electra she was flying..than a shoe...some bones...etc etc...they keep going back to the till every year.This time ,they get the discovery Channel to bankroll the latest expedition...what do you expect discovery channel to do...produce a show saying "well we were sure suckered into this expedition cause we found squat!All we got out of this was a sunburn and a bad hangover!"

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

Geez rageracer..........tell us how you REALLY feel.

:>)

Tom

Where do you think his screen name came from?