94 Mooney M20M: TKS, GTN750. This Week Only

[WorldWiseTrade]

1994 M20M with $46,000 of new avionics and TKS. A fantastic and final offer this week only at $135,000. (firm).

Mags, Alternators, and Turbo just overhauled (last annual) plus many hoses replaced. This is a zero squawk machine, fast and economical. 

About 1900 TT, so depends on Part 91 or not when owner decides to O/H, 2000 TBO. Airmark quote in hand for $40,500 to O/H. Compressions all mid 70's, oil analysis always perfect, airplane always hangared. Prop overhauled w/450 hrs on it. No damage history.

Avionics: GTN-750, GNC-255 #2 Nav-Com, GMA-35 Audio Marker, GLD-88 Data Link, GTX-330ex Transponder, Flightstream-210 (iPad sync to Foreflight or Garmin Connext), MD-200 CDI (full ILS backup with GNC-255), MyGoFlight iPad panel mount plus iPad yoke mount plus custom USB panel mount power supply. WX-1000+ Stormscope. KFC-150 Autopilot with altitude pre-select.

So here is the deal... 1. I am retired and traveling the world, don't need this airplane sitting around. 2. Seems nobody wants to buy a high time engine bird, thus the bargain price. 3. If it doesn't sell this week it's going in the shop for a reman eng, and will be back on the market later at a much higher price.

Want a great bird at a very great price, time is now. Deduct avionics and TKS you've got a high performance airplane for less than the cost of a C-150. Sold with fresh annual, which should suffice as a pre-purchase.

Off the market Friday 6/16. Feel free to call 892-1000 and that's in the five/zero/eight A/C. Airplane currently hangared at KAPF.

Happy Flying!

 

 

[carusoam]

WWT,

FYI, There is a European group of pilots saying they are looking at a nice Bravo.  Might be a good idea to parade this thread in front of them...

How is the new plane working out?

Best regards,

-a-

[Godfather]

Three things come to mind with this plane...

1. Beautiful plane with a nice 750 and overall condition shows you took care of it. 

2. Engine overhauls have a tendency to creep up in price. Things like engine mounts, exhaust rebuilds, backup alternator rebuilds, etc. IMO it is never a good idea to overhaul an engine to sell the plane. In the end you will only get half of it back. 

3. Take lots of pictures from every angle making sure there are no wires showing, panels removed, etc.  Info on tank reseal, o2 cylinder replacement, rubber donuts, 256 overhaul, etc. 

[WorldWiseTrade]

I'll look for the thread, thanks. New plane may be no plane and world travels. Need to appease the better half. That's only a maybe, suspect something will end up in the hangar, got the hankering for a helicopter lately.


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[LANCECASPER]

Beautiful airplane, but I would have a hard time putting any confidence in an engine with 1900TT that's never had a graphic engine monitor. Just my opinion, but the first panel upgrade anyone does to an airplane should be an engine monitor. You can get to your your destination with older avionics, but not unless your engine is running.

 

[WorldWiseTrade]

Hmmm... 25000+ hrs since 1975, never had a graphics monitor. Oil analysis for sure, not making metal is a good thing. Never LOP either, sure way for problems IMO. Good compression tells a lot and keep the oil clean. And frankly I am much more comfortable with 1900 hrs than with 10-200 hrs, again my opinion. Ran a C-210 500 hrs beyond TBO, smooth and strong. Fly right, listen to your engine! All those fancy gauges nice to have, but not need to have. All a matter of preference in the end though. 

[WorldWiseTrade]

Dear Godfather,

1. Yes, very well taken care of, to the extreme. It is an airplane after all, not a good place to skimp! 

2. They do but typically if not otherwise taken care of. For instance, I installed new hoses, new mags, new alternators, new turbo last annual. Not because it was necessary but because I stay way ahead of any issues. The engine O/H should be problem free, possibly a little creep if there is a case problem, but I doubt it.

I understand not getting "everything back", which certainly is the case with avionics, but with the engine O/H cost it will put the airplane well within Vref valuation. It is a great deal at the current asking IF one is willing to fly to TBO and beyond, which I certainly would do Part 91 as long as vitals are good eg. oil analysis, compressions, smooth running, TIT normal, etc. In this case, I believe I'll get the value add back.

3. I agree, especially AI/HSI overhaul BUT seems the Garmin G5 will be a better option. I'm thinking by Oshkosh they will have a didital-analog converter so the KFC-150 will integrate. That's a better option and then vacuum pumps goodbye.

Thanks for the comments!  

Edited June 11, 2017 by WorldWiseTrade

[Bravoman]

Looks pretty reasonable to me even factoring in the price of the overhaul. I'd definitely be talking to you if I didn't already have one! I still scratch my head as to why the market is not stronger for these amazing planes.

[donkaye]

52 minutes ago, Bravoman said:

I still scratch my head as to why the market is not stronger for these amazing planes.

I flown nearly all Mooney models extensively and the Bravo is superior to all but the Acclaim going for between 4 and 8 times the Bravo cost depending on how new the Acclaim is.  The current market for Bravos makes absolutely no sense to me.  They're a total steal.

[Simon]

Just now, donkaye said:

I flown nearly all Mooney models extensively and the Bravo is superior to all but the Acclaim going for between 4 and 8 times the Bravo cost depending on how new the Acclaim is.  The current market for Bravos makes absolutely no sense to me.  They're a total steal.

How do the annual running costs compare?  Maybe that helps explain, but only if Bravo's are significantly more.

 

[jetdriven]

IDK why the Bravo market is so soft.  my guess is the high fuel flow and the high cost of overhauls coupled with a low usesful load.. People buy B55 Barons in that price point and get more airplane .  Don is right, the Acclaim is a similar airplane. Perhaps they sell for mare is  because the brand new ones are far far higher than that, and they all have G10000, some have GFC700 which is magic.

Edited June 12, 2017 by jetdriven

[Godfather]

1 hour ago, donkaye said:

I flown nearly all Mooney models extensively and the Bravo is superior to all but the Acclaim going for between 4 and 8 times the Bravo cost depending on how new the Acclaim is.  The current market for Bravos makes absolutely no sense to me.  They're a total steal.

Can't agree... over the past couple of years the Acclaim has been selling used for around 325-350 with the bravo prices falling in between 100-200 with a wide range of planes...let's say an average of 150.  So I'd put the price premium at 2-2.5x the cost. The extreme example of this is comparing a mid 2000's bravo and acclaim.  Both with similar times and history the acclaim with command another 125k...

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

IDK why the Bravo market is so soft.  my guess is the high fuel flow and the high cost of overhauls coupled with a low usesful load.. People buy B55 Barons in that price point and get more airplane .  Don is right, the Acclaim is a similar airplane. Perhaps they sell for mare is  because the brand new ones are far far higher than that, and they all have G10000, some have GFC700 which is magic.

And you can also buy an aerostar at that price point and yet its not the right plane for many people.

Sometimes I get tempted and think, gee - whiz - twin.  And for me, a twin would be either B55 or ... in even my crazier moments - aerostar.  So what I do is put my head between my knees and rock back and forth until that feeling passes.  That's worked for me so far.  I can't say if it will work forever.

[jetdriven]

From three different friends with turbo Aerostars, the baseline annual, no repairs, still is 15K, and several years of those suggests thats the way it is.

[smccray]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

IDK why the Bravo market is so soft.  my guess is the high fuel flow and the high cost of overhauls coupled with a low usesful load.. People buy B55 Barons in that price point and get more airplane .  Don is right, the Acclaim is a similar airplane. Perhaps they sell for mare is  because the brand new ones are far far higher than that, and they all have G10000, some have GFC700 which is magic.

 

1) price of a factory reman is $60K.  Don K has projected $75K to do a reman engine right.  Lycoming price increases have increased the hourly engine reserve which drives down the purchase price of a plane with a run out engine.

2) Higher operating cost due to higher fuel burn.  It's not a lot compared to an ovation, but as fuel goes to $5+ per gallon it makes operating cost rise

3) competition- Have you seen what $200K will buy in a turbo charged traveling airplane?  I've looked at other brands, and I absolutely love my Mooney (fell back in love recently), but the market place is speaking.  $200K puts you in the same ballpark as avidyne equipped SR22s and Columbia 400s.  Some of the early non-waas equipped Col 400s have traded at $250.  Lower fuel burn, air conditioning, similar useful load, 10 years newer. 

There's a lot of value with Mooney Bravo, but there are a number of M20Ms that have been on the market for a year or more.   A seller needs to find someone who wants a turbo Mooney (challenge in itself compared to competition) that can afford to run a bravo, but can't afford to buy an acclaim (or doesn't want the G1000).  This is a fine example of an early M20M and I'm sure it will make a buyer very happy.

 

[aviatoreb]

Just now, jetdriven said:

From three different friends with turbo Aerostars, the baseline annual, no repairs, still is 15K, and several years of those suggests thats the way it is.

That's roughly what I have heard.  But they sure are cool....

The B55 must be somewhere inbetween a M20M and an aerostar to operate.

At 15k annuals, then it must make sense to even consider a single engine turbo prop.  Other than acquisition costs.

So back to earth - sort of - an M20M is still a "common"-folks airplane - sort of.  Anyway a beautiful machine.

[KLRDMD]

9 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

The B55 must be somewhere inbetween a M20M and an aerostar to operate.

Having owned both, the B55 is a little more to operate than the Bravo, maybe 25% more ???

Part of that is your typical cruise altitude. At 17,500 ft, my Bravo (which was known ice) did 193 KTAS on 19.4 GPH. At 8,000 ft my B55 (Colemill conversion) did 185 KTAS on 24GPH. If you regularly fly below 10,000 ft the Baron was a better choice but if you fly high the Bravo was better. My typical cruise altitude is 10-12k so pretty much right between the two. The Baron climbed much faster and carried about 800 lb more than my Bravo. The annuals were a little more on the Baron but insurance was less due to a lower hull value. The hangar was the same and maintenance throughout the year was the same too as I did 25 hour oil changes on the Bravo and 50 hour on the Baron.

Yes, a B55 costs more to operate than a Bravo, but not orders of magnitude more.

[WorldWiseTrade]

On the chatter...

G1000 sure looks nice, until it doesn't light up. Then, back to Garmin to fix and figure $10-20K to get the TV back on. Components easy to plug and play for repairs. Also I'd say the average recreational (IFR) flyer has a MUCH easier time in a non-glass environment, all those fancy glass features two and three menu levels deep are very easy to forget and difficult to remain current and proficient on.

GFC 700 for sure a nice autopilot, that would be a nice to have not need to have. My KFC-150 with altitude pre-select works quite nice however I still prefer hand flying approaches. Similar with GPSS, I have the GPS part, steering for me not why I go flying, again prefer hand flying, even in the Boeing. If GPSS is desired an Aspen will provide it at a reasonable cost and my guess is Garmin will soon announce an analog autopilot interface for the G5, maybe a better solution. Couple of G5's for A/I and HSI will be a fantastic and economical solution with a LOT less power draw than G1000's.

Cirrus, Columbia and other plastic airplanes nice, but I think easily $100K more on the low end, upwards to + $300K. Worth it? For sure I would like A/C though. "Like" vs. "need" with this topic also.

On fuel burn, my opinion is it's a non-issue. Think I average 15GPH but who's counting. Average flying of 100 or 200 hrs a year, not a consideration. If you need to ask the price... you probably can't afford it.

Mooney vs. ANY twin, twins are: twice the maintenance, twice the cost, twice the training, doesn't fit in a standard T hangar, etc. Nobody making new twins for a reason, except specialty mission and training aircraft.

In general, Bravo's are the best value on the market, just an opinion. 

[donkaye]

5 minutes ago, WorldWiseTrade said:

In general, Bravo's are the best value on the market, just an opinion. 

Thumbs up!!

[Godfather]

1 hour ago, WorldWiseTrade said:

In general, Bravo's are the best value on the market, just an opinion. 

Agreed, and personally I think you have a unique aircraft with a high level of maintenance and a high time engine. I'd continue to list it like this unit you find the perfect buyer. Because as you said many people do not like a 0-200 hr engine either. Good Luck!

[smccray]

6 hours ago, Godfather said:

Agreed, and personally I think you have a unique aircraft with a high level of maintenance and a high time engine. I'd continue to list it like this unit you find the perfect buyer. Because as you said many people do not like a 0-200 hr engine either. Good Luck!

Agreed. Put it on controller @ $135 and you'll get some interest. I wouldn't buy a new engine- lower the price and let the buyer do the engine.

[Godfather]

Bump for a nice bravo, last day on the market.

Also wanted to mention if that's your hanger in the background...VERY nice. 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Godfather

[peevee]

If I could talk my partners into it a d sell our rocket I'd jump. Worth it just for tks. That engine could run a long time.

[Danb]

The reliability of my G-1000 has been awesome, I believe I have the first BravoGX made, never had either the MFD or PFD out or worked on for maintenance or repair. Thats over 12 years of maintenance free for the G1000, now don't jinx me. 

 

[Caio]

And you can also buy an aerostar at that price point and yet its not the right plane for many people.
Sometimes I get tempted and think, gee - whiz - twin.  And for me, a twin would be either B55 or ... in even my crazier moments - aerostar.  So what I do is put my head between my knees and rock back and forth until that feeling passes.  That's worked for me so far.  I can't say if it will work forever.

Man that’s a perfect comment!!!!
There are so many different options, super cool options but in the end of the day, for e every mission there’s the right plane...

I liked the idea of putting the head between the knees thought.


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