Shoulder Harness Upgrade

[1964-M20E]

34 minutes ago, PTK said:

What is the practical benefit to retractable harness? Please elaborate. I have considered it but have been unable to justify it.

I know that before takeoff I need to either wiggle out of the shoulder harness or unhook to to close and lock the door and to change fuel tanks.   I can't have the shoulder belt hooked.  Other than that no issue what so ever with the fixed belts.

 

You just need to adjust you routine to accommodate them.  I generally hook the shoulder belt right before takeoff.

[PTK]

Just now, 1964-M20E said:

I know that before takeoff I need to either wiggle out of the shoulder harness or unhook to to close and lock the door and to change fuel tanks.   I can't have the shoulder belt hooked.  Other than that no issue what so ever with the fixed belts.

 

You just need to adjust you routine to accommodate them.  I generally hook the shoulder belt right before takeoff.

My shoulder harness adjusts. I losen it so I can reach down to the fuel selector and door. Then pull on tab to tighten it. 

[Mooneymite]

Until you can get a properly installed shoulder harness in your plane, this thread has a suggested non-installed solution.

Disclaimer:  I am not advocating this solution.  Just pointing it out.

[RLCarter]

The prices being thrown around are not apples to apples, just south of a grand gets 2 sets of rear lap belts, 2 sets front lap belts with shoulder harness and the minor kit to mount the shoulder harnesses. As a pilot you are allowed to replace the seat belts but not install the minor kit (attach points for shoulder straps). Less than 600 bucks keeps both front seat occupants from hitting the panel. Anytime you can increase the safety you are ahead of the game. It amazes me people will spend mega bucks on a panel in the name of safety of flight then piss and moan on the things that truly improve your survival rate in the event you need them

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, RLCarter said:

The prices being thrown around are not apples to apples, just south of a grand gets 2 sets of rear lap belts, 2 sets front lap belts with shoulder harness and the minor kit to mount the shoulder harnesses. As a pilot you are allowed to replace the seat belts but not install the minor kit (attach points for shoulder straps). Less than 600 bucks keeps both front seat occupants from hitting the panel. Anytime you can increase the safety you are ahead of the game. It amazes me people will spend mega bucks on a panel in the name of safety of flight then piss and moan on the things that truly improve your survival rate in the event you need them

Link please for the <$600 set. 

The one referenced above (eBay) is per seat plus shipping (for each seat) and install kit, lets call it $750 for the front only. I did a search and found an error on my end the price for the two front kits changed from $500->$700 but the price was from 2013. 

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far. 

[MyNameIsNobody]

3 hours ago, par said:

Read the description carefully. These are intended to J's that already have mounting points. The older mooney do not and cost insanely more.

Yup, you are correct. Did not read closely. Rip off. Glad I bought before idiot pricing ensued. 

[RLCarter]

If I'm not mistaken, the $35.00 minor kit allows you to Use the J belts in the previous models

Edited April 28, 2017 by RLCarter

[Skates97]

4 hours ago, PTK said:

What is the practical benefit to retractable harness? Please elaborate. I have considered it but have been unable to justify it.

For me it is the ease of not having to adjust it or unhook it to switch tanks, reach the door, reach the breakers if I need to, etc... If I was making an off field landing and I'm by myself I would need to adjust or unhook to open the door, then readjust or put it back on before landing and I'd rather not have to worry about that when dealing with an emergency landing. In the grand scheme of things and what it costs to own a plane, the extra $100 for the retractable harness seems like a small number for the added convenience (even in my CB mind). 

[RLCarter]

I went fixed, inertia reels can and will tighten up in turbulence pinning you in the seat. 

[MIm20c]

21 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

If I'm not mistaken, the $35.00 minor kit allows you to Use the J belts in the previous models

So with the adapter I could source new / used J parts and have new webbing put in because the FAA classifies it as a minor alteration?

[PTK]

Personally I think inertial reels are not necessary and look like an ugly afterthought.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nels]

2 hours ago, RLCarter said:

The prices being thrown around are not apples to apples, just south of a grand gets 2 sets of rear lap belts, 2 sets front lap belts with shoulder harness and the minor kit to mount the shoulder harnesses. As a pilot you are allowed to replace the seat belts but not install the minor kit (attach points for shoulder straps). Less than 600 bucks keeps both front seat occupants from hitting the panel. Anytime you can increase the safety you are ahead of the game. It amazes me people will spend mega bucks on a panel in the name of safety of flight then piss and moan on the things that truly improve your survival rate in the event you need them

Are you sure about the owner not being allowed to install shoulder belts himself? I think you are allowed to improve the safety of your plane as you see fit as long as you don't undue what is original equipment. If your plane only has lap belts it would  be pure nonsense to not allow a pilot to also Install a shoulder belt by himself if he deemed it a better move at $50 than not doing it at a price tag he cannot afford. It is over and above what is original equipment in the plane. For instance, do you think the FAA would be upset if you put some makeshift padding on the edge of your glareshield for additional protection? I know you aren't allowed to drill or physically modify the airframe but the shoulder strap mount is or could be nothing more than a steel 3/4 inch diameter strap that wraps around the tubing with a hole drilled in the end of the strap to mount the shoulder belt. 

[nels]

As for the inertia reels, I think they are a good idea at least for me. I adjust my seat pretty close to the panel n order to easily reach the brakes. I've often thought in the event of an off field landing I would probably adjust the seat rearward as much as possible at the last moment and that last moment probably wouldn't give me ample time to readjust the shoulder belt. The real type would automatically take up the slack when I moved back.

[nels]

30 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

I went fixed, inertia reels can and will tighten up in turbulence pinning you in the seat. 

Good thought.

[RLCarter]

42 minutes ago, nels said:

Are you sure about the owner not being allowed to install shoulder belts himself? I think you are allowed to improve the safety of your plane as you see fit as long as you don't undue what is original equipment. If your plane only has lap belts it would  be pure nonsense to not allow a pilot to also Install a shoulder belt by himself if he deemed it a better move at $50 than not doing it at a price tag he cannot afford. It is over and above what is original equipment in the plane. For instance, do you think the FAA would be upset if you put some makeshift padding on the edge of your glareshield for additional protection? I know you aren't allowed to drill or physically modify the airframe but the shoulder strap mount is or could be nothing more than a steel 3/4 inch diameter strap that wraps around the tubing with a hole drilled in the end of the strap to mount the shoulder belt. 

You can replace the belts and shoulder strap, what you cant do is install the mounting hardware for the shoulder strap

[par]

3 hours ago, RLCarter said:

The prices being thrown around are not apples to apples, just south of a grand gets 2 sets of rear lap belts, 2 sets front lap belts with shoulder harness and the minor kit to mount the shoulder harnesses. As a pilot you are allowed to replace the seat belts but not install the minor kit (attach points for shoulder straps). Less than 600 bucks keeps both front seat occupants from hitting the panel. Anytime you can increase the safety you are ahead of the game. It amazes me people will spend mega bucks on a panel in the name of safety of flight then piss and moan on the things that truly improve your survival rate in the event you need them

Not too sure where you are seeing the $600 price. Here is a snapshot of my basket with 2 belts for the front with shipping. Add the minor mod kit and you are at over $750 plus install.

[nels]

23 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

You can replace the belts and shoulder strap, what you cant do is install the mounting hardware for the shoulder strap

That might be grey area? There is no alteration or modification of the airframe necessary.

[RLCarter]

4 minutes ago, par said:

Not too sure where you are seeing the $600 price. Here is a snapshot of my basket with 2 belts for the front with shipping. Add the minor mod kit and you are at over $750 plus install.

 

was going off what I paid, ordered everything thru LASAR a year and a half ago

[RLCarter]

Just now, nels said:

That might be grey area? There is no alteration or modification of the airframe necessary.

there is, you have to drill a hole in the tubing for the PK screw (keeps the clamp from rotating), plus you have to trim the sheet metal flange around window on the pilots side (or at least I did) or risk breaking a window in the future.

[Yetti]

I got the fixed belts clamps on with no problem.  I would not want to be drilling the roll cage that is a safety for me.  If y'all had "the yetti reach" sometimes refereed to as a boarding house reach you could reach everything just fine with the fixed belt fastened and tight.

Also did not want a big ole inertia reel next to my head to get bounced off of.

[Dream to fly]

Ok I have to ask!!!  Why have we as pilots not united and fought the high costs of aviation?  The truth is some have no problem dropping a grand or two in the name of safety and others struggle but nobody likes it.  Nobody likes the high costs yet we as pilots allow it.  WHY?  In this case of seat belts we have belts for dragsters that cost $250 can handle payloads of over 300 pounds of weight going 300+ mph experiencing multiple G-forces and we can't use it because the FAA says no.  REALLY?  There is a member on this forum designing a new cowl for cooler temps and he is at a stand still because the FAA has to sign it off.  Seriously like the FAA is going to send someone who is actually going to know about how air flows around a cylinder.  I highly doubt it.  There are very few in government that understand thermal dynamics.  These planes some old and some new are all maintained by professional mechanics for the most part and those people have their hands tied why?  And before someone jumps all over me about experimentals  that are always crashing and having issues because of a lack of government involvement it is usually builder fault for taking shortcuts or not having mechanical ability.  We'd still need professionally trained mechanics to install the components that just wouldn't cost an outrageous cost.    Ok go ahead crucify me I'm done 

[cctsurf]

I had hoped that the recent rewrite for Part 23 would cheapen things, so far I don't see a lot of that trickling down.  Yeah, I could install a G5 or a Dynon EFIS-D10A with money I don't have, but I hoped it would encourage more investment at the more common end of the parts pool.  I would love an efi or ignition system that would pole vault our airplanes into the 1970's for technology...

I think it may have had something to do with that old song, "I fought the law and the law won."  Fighting the government is pretty difficult.

Your attitude really reminds me of myself when I started flying airplanes.  I guess I have just beaten against the wall often enough that I have become more compliant.  Not that I don't seek every opportunity to save a few dollars (one of which is my annual pilgrimage to Oshkosh to pick up parts) but I guess I have just gotten used to the high cost of flying.  We have made numerous life choices to make flying happen for us as a family.

 

[Dream to fly]

2 minutes ago, cctsurf said:

I had hoped that the recent rewrite for Part 23 would cheapen things, so far I don't see a lot of that trickling down.  Yeah, I could install a G5 or a Dynon EFIS-D10A with money I don't have, but I hoped it would encourage more investment at the more common end of the parts pool.  I would love an efi or ignition system that would pole vault our airplanes into the 1970's for technology...

I think it may have had something to do with that old song, "I fought the law and the law won."  Fighting the government is pretty difficult.

Your attitude really reminds me of myself when I started flying airplanes.  I guess I have just beaten against the wall often enough that I have become more compliant.  Not that I don't seek every opportunity to save a few dollars (one of which is my annual pilgrimage to Oshkosh to pick up parts) but I guess I have just gotten used to the high cost of flying.  We have made numerous life choices to make flying happen for us as a family.

 

I am afraid that will happen to me also.  I have been blessed that I have a good job and a wife that sees my passion and helps me forward with my dreams.   But when seat belts, and wheels and other things that are common design are hundreds of dollars over practical cost I get crazy.  I need three wheels not tires but the wheels and am looking at 2100.00  That is ridiculous.  I am tempted to make them out of billet and let the FAA tell me they won't work.  Now if it was a prop or a landing strut or some other critical "airplane component" I can see a cost.  But not parts where the auto/diesel/race world have proven better products.

[Andy95W]

5 hours ago, PTK said:

Personally I think inertial reels are not necessary and look like an ugly afterthought.

Peter, you would feel differently if you had a Johnson Bar.  But for electric gear I agree with you.

[kerry]

I have a Y shoulder harness from aircraft spruce.  I think I spent $80 for it and I mounted it above on a clamp I attached to the steel cage.  It gives me a one shoulder belt per side similar to the way Cessna does it except I don't have a inertia real.  https://www.aircraft24.com/others/popup_pic.htm?popupmode=1&AD_ID=113337&picnum=5  Works well for me.