Cheap Tires

[Raptor05121]

I know I know, this topic has been beaten to death.

At SnF, I talked to the Desser Retread guys, and they gave me a quote for ~$340 for Monster retreads with new tubes. I also just talked to my mechanic, and for some reason, he is hard against retreads. But he also told me I don't need him to put them on. He told me I should find some cheap Condors with the amount of flying I am doing. I know the Dessers give more "landings per dollar" according to Aviation Consumer. 

End goal: I'm looking for THE cheapest way to get three new tires and tubes for my plane. The past 200 landings have really worn them down and 2 of the three are now bald. No cracks, no cords showing. But I have zero tread and you can tell how thin the rubber is with the pitch of the "squeek" when the tires hit. Everyone else's planes have a deeper noise and mine are very high pitch. I am going to wear them down long before they rot. I am averaging 1,000 landings a year at this rate. 

[orionflt]

I'm not a huge proponent of retreads my self.

 one of the reasons they are disliked is they tend to be bigger in diameter then new tires, this can cause them to bind in the wheel wells if the clearance hasn't been checked. never really heard of a Mooney having that issue but other retractable aircraft have. 

[N6758N]

Call up Aeroinstock and get yourself a set of Air Hawks and the Buytl Rubber tubes, cheapest all around option. That's what a lot of the flight schools use because they are a decent tires and hold up to lots of landings. 

[smwash02]

I used them on my 150 and found them too rough for my tastes. Maybe I had a bad batch.

Edited April 25, 2017 by smwash02

[MooneyMitch]

With my experience, Desser retreads are certainly fine.  I ran Goodyear Flight Customs III casings with the Desser retread cap, which emulated the Flight Custom tread.  The tires were used on my former Ovation.  I had great service life from them, no fitment issues, and had zero problems.........at probably near half cost of the new Flight Customs.

Also, based on experience, I suggest never, ever letting tires get even close to what you are describing.  It's in ones best interest to keep the rubber in great shape.  It's much less $'s overall to keep the rubber in excellent condition, rather than to have possibly very expensive $ issues, not to mention the personal safety aspect of a blowout, or other issues, during takeoff and/or landing.  Being stranded somewhere due to tire problems is not the best.  I use the same philosophy with my motorcycle tires.  It's the only thing between me and terra firma.

So far, so good. 

My 2 cents and again, my experience.

[Shadrach]

Alex,

Since you're on the East Coast, you ought to call Wilkerson Tire in Crewe VA.  You'll get a lot of opinions on retreads. I can't speak to the negative experiences others have had.  I'm on my second set form Wilkerson and I have nothing but positive things to say about them.  I have had zero issues with ride, balance or fit and finish.  Wilkerson retreads are thoroughly tested and FAA approved.  They will pick you up at the Crewe Muni Airport and give you a factory tour if you call ahead.  They are a solid company with a solid product in my opinion.

[RobertGary1]

How many tires? I just paid Aircraft Spruce something like $120 for an AirHawk and tube main. No A&P required, owner can sign it off. I've got more than 15 years on most of my AirHawks, no reason to spend a penny more.

 

-Robert

Edited April 25, 2017 by RobertGary1

[Guest]

If you wouldn't drive your family car on bald tires, why would you fly your plane on bald tires?

Clarence

[RobertGary1]

8 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

If you wouldn't drive your family car on bald tires, why would you fly your plane on bald tires?

Clarence

Not to be argumentative but I'd say tread is more important on car tires that need to be able to turn at high speeds on wet roads. The legal standard for car tires in 2/23" of tread. The legal standard for aircraft tire tread is no cord/fabric showing. I assume the difference is due to that difference in environment.

Although in decades of aircraft ownership I've never found a tire to ever go bold. I replace them on age (15 years or so as indicated on the DOT stamp). 

-Robert

Edited April 25, 2017 by RobertGary1

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RobertGary1 said:

Not to be argumentative but I'd say tread is more important on car tires that need to be able to turn at high speeds on wet roads. The legal standard for car tires in 2/23" of tread. The legal standard for aircraft tire tread is no cord/fabric showing. I assume the difference is due to that difference in environment.

Although in decades of aircraft ownership I've never found a tire to ever go bold. I replace them on age (15 years or so as indicated on the DOT stamp). 

-Robert

Personally I won't risk my very expensive airplane while trying to stretch the last few pennies out of my tires.  Likewise I won't risk my family with worn tires on the family car.

Clarence

[201er]

I get air hawks cause at half the price they aren't half the usefulness or life of the goodyears. But with that said, why are you averaging 1000 landings per year? If you really want a plane to beat down like that, then rent a skyhawk. I'd be worried about the pucks and fuel tanks a lot more than the tires!

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

I get air hawks cause at half the price they aren't half the usefulness or life of the goodyears. But with that said, why are you averaging 1000 landings per year? If you really want a plane to beat down like that, then rent a skyhawk. I'd be worried about the pucks and fuel tanks a lot more than the tires!

And get your IR rating while your at it, for goodness sake don't you know what Mooneys are for?  Alex, you might think you're having fun with all of your local hops and pattern work, but the Ministry of Mooney Operations (MMO) knows what is appropriate and what is not and they are keeping tabs on you.  Get with the program or have your card pulled.

And as a side note, rubber shock disks are under compression when the airplane sits in the hangar.  Landings will have little impact on puck life. Age and environment have a much larger impact on service life.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, 201er said:

I get air hawks cause at half the price they aren't half the usefulness or life of the goodyears. But with that said, why are you averaging 1000 landings per year? If you really want a plane to beat down like that, then rent a skyhawk. I'd be worried about the pucks and fuel tanks a lot more than the tires!

I'm glad he flies his airplane that much, not everyone is in to your type of marathon flying.  1000 landings per year should not cause any harm to his Mooney.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I'm glad he flies his airplane that much, not everyone is in to your type of marathon flying.  1000 landings per year should not cause any harm to his Mooney.

Clarence

Depends on the landings...  I've seen some videos that look like they were aiming for the three wire...

[bradp]

Better landings will make the tires last longer. :-)

(says the guy who maybe on my 10th landing in the Mooney flat spotted one at Lincoln Park NJ).  

[Guest]

AoA will make them last even longer. 

Clarence

[Nokomis449]

I've had no problems with Condors.  I just don't understand why the tubes are almost as much as the tire!  I pick and choose where to skimp and where to splurge - the Condors were cheaper than Goodyears.  I'm jealous of all your flying - have you birddogged that private grass strip on the Georgia island for a camping trip yet?  I'd be a threat to fly down for a weekend trip.

[cnoe]

End goal: I'm looking for THE cheapest way to get three new tires and tubes for my plane.

Buy retreads, or cheap new tires, whichever you prefer. But using budget tubes is a great way to tear up a gear door. Michelin AirStops, at $65 each, seem to be good choice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SantosDumont]

I just replaced my Condors. I flat spotted the shit out of them my first couple months of learning how to land. I just had my mechanic put on retreads. So far I like them.   Also 15 years out of tires?! Sounds like crazy talk to me unless you fly like once per year. 

[Raptor05121]

14 hours ago, orionflt said:

I'm not a huge proponent of retreads my self.

 one of the reasons they are disliked is they tend to be bigger in diameter then new tires, this can cause them to bind in the wheel wells if the clearance hasn't been checked. never really heard of a Mooney having that issue but other retractable aircraft have. 

 

Desser said they are the exact same diameter as new tires.

[Raptor05121]

13 hours ago, 201er said:

I get air hawks cause at half the price they aren't half the usefulness or life of the goodyears. But with that said, why are you averaging 1000 landings per year? If you really want a plane to beat down like that, then rent a skyhawk. I'd be worried about the pucks and fuel tanks a lot more than the tires!

 

 

 

Skyhawk: $140/hr
My Mooney: $105/hr

Why the hell would I rent when I own?

I'm averaging 1000 landings a year because I fly about 3-4x a week. I never saw a stipulation that said Mooney's couldnt be run often. Hell, I'd wager its better than most Mooneys sitting in a hangar and flying once or twice a month. You probably aren't familiar with my plane, but I just had the tanks stripped and resealed.

12 hours ago, Shadrach said:

And get your IR rating while your at it, for goodness sake don't you know what Mooneys are for?  Alex, you might think you're having fun with all of your local hops and pattern work, but the Ministry of Mooney Operations (MMO) knows what is appropriate and what is not and they are keeping tabs on you.  Get with the program or have your card pulled.

And as a side note, rubber shock disks are under compression when the airplane sits in the hangar.  Landings will have little impact on puck life. Age and environment have a much larger impact on service life.

 

 

 

I'm in the middle of my IFR rating right now. I'm actually taking a break from some of the books as I type this. See my thread.

8 hours ago, Nokomis449 said:

I've had no problems with Condors.  I just don't understand why the tubes are almost as much as the tire!  I pick and choose where to skimp and where to splurge - the Condors were cheaper than Goodyears.  I'm jealous of all your flying - have you birddogged that private grass strip on the Georgia island for a camping trip yet?  I'd be a threat to fly down for a weekend trip.

 

 

 

Not yet, its on my short list. I am very impressed with the Recreational Air Foundation. I am hoping to get something akin to what they are doing out at my airport.

[Raptor05121]

16 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Alex,

Since you're on the East Coast, you ought to call Wilkerson Tire in Crewe VA.  You'll get a lot of opinions on retreads. I can't speak to the negative experiences others have had.  I'm on my second set form Wilkerson and I have nothing but positive things to say about them.  I have had zero issues with ride, balance or fit and finish.  Wilkerson retreads are thoroughly tested and FAA approved.  They will pick you up at the Crewe Muni Airport and give you a factory tour if you call ahead.  They are a solid company with a solid product in my opinion.

 

What they said:
 

500-4/6 New Goodyear $337.00 each, 500-4 Tube $114.00 each

600-6/8 Retreads $62.00 each, 600-6 Tube $64.00 each

 

17 hours ago, N6758N said:

Call up Aeroinstock and get yourself a set of Air Hawks and the Buytl Rubber tubes, cheapest all around option. That's what a lot of the flight schools use because they are a decent tires and hold up to lots of landings. 

 

Still more expensive than Desser

 

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

Desser said they are the exact same diameter as new tires.

Aviation Consumer Magazine reviewed them and liked them a lot.  One of the things they pointed out was that to meet the TSO, they had to meet the proper dimensions of the TSO.

They agreed that the old wives tale is still out there because decades ago, retreads didn't always adhere to this.

------------------------

On a side note, Desser tubes have had a lot of bad reviews here on MooneySpace, especially with leakage at the stem attachment.  Michelin Airstop tubes have had only great reviews n this site.

FWIW.

[Raptor05121]

Thanks Andy.

Suprisingly, my old as shit tires and tubes haven't leaked at all. Granted, I'm not resuing the tubes, I have only added air to them once when I bought it and they have held same PSI ever since, I check monthly. I am not sure what brand they are.

[RLCarter]

Alex,

Fly as often and as far as you like, the more you fly the lower the cost per hour gets (to a point). I run Airhawks on both the Mooney and the Cessna, Desser seems to have better deals, my buddy has run retreads on his Cherrokee for the last 20 years with no issues. The retreads seem to have more tread depth so they might last longer, my only concern would be clearance when retracted especially on the nose gear (mine rubbed with a new tire)