Aspen or g5(s)

[carusoam]

Is it fair to say...

You need two G5s to do the job of one Aspen?

This is with the assumption that the G5s can be brought up to working at the level of a VFR Aspen.

The Garmin company is very capable of producing top end electronic devices.  The challenge is that they don't like to share the panel with other suppliers.  Their update path is never clear when it comes to time lines.  Aviation technology is incredibly slow moving.

buying something hoping that it will be compatible with the next thing you buy in the future is Somewhat wishful thinking.

I have this experience with Big G's predecessor, BK... trying to add a waas gps to my all BK panel has been a terribly long wait. It would only make sense if their glass AI and glass HSI were going to become available.

It only makes sense to stay with what's available today.

The Aspen may be old technology but it can be upgraded using software through many levels. And multiplied side by side for additional skill. The display of air data computer output is way cool. Adding traffic and weather to the panel is icing on the cake.

the Garmin G500,600 has been growing for years. The G5 is part of a successful family.

You need an AI to reliably keep the sunny side up. Work on that. OH what you have.  Take a look at its current back-up device to determine if it is not too worn out to be stable in choppy seas.

It helps to put a long plan together.  Theoretically If you were to spend a few AMU each year what would make the most sense and why?

Build a ten year plan. Look at what needs to be updated today, for 2020, for what your needs will be in five years, then go from there.  When 10 years goes by, the cool things from 2017 will be dated and might be surpassed by a new technology...

no two Mooney pilots have the same list.  It is fun to compare notes.

Bets regards,

-a-

 

 

[LevelWing]

15 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'd be saving for an autopilot first... Of course if you wait, maybe TruTrax gets certified for us... But as you realize, I good autopilot would go the furthest to increase the utility of the airplane.

Have you seen this?

http://aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/april/04/certification-simplification-bears-fruit

Looks like it's getting closer to it.

[zaitcev]

I like Aspen's features, but it's extremely irritating how it likes to go into "big red X" at a drop of a hat.

In an Arrow, I can cause it at will just by stomping the rudder. It starts thinking that AHARS is broken and throws red X. I found it because wagging the tail is a part of the checklist in case the gear gets stuck up. But it's ridiculous, don't you think? Aspen's AHARS is solid state. A simple AI without aerobatic caging button survives this much maneuvering, why can't Aspen do it? It's an Arrow, not Extra 300. Also, I lose the airspeed and altitude too, even though they are not driven by gyros. Fortunately, it self-recovers in 20 seconds or so, but still, losing PFD feels very uncomfortable.

In one airplane it got into an annoying habit of showing X on the ground. It comes to its senses in the air, but jeez. Local avionics shop can't figure out what causes it. Something went out of whack with such a mysterious symptom.

I have no experience flying with Garmin (either G1000 or G3X), so I cannot compare directly.

Edited April 6, 2017 by zaitcev

[RobertGary1]

35 minutes ago, zaitcev said:

I flew in a rental with dual Aspens. They have 1-button take-over feature where the surviving Aspen can display PFD, using the red "REV" button.

Usually the reversionary button is really for training. In an actual failure the units should go into reversionary on their own. G1000 works the same. 

-Robert

[Marauder]

I like Aspen's features, but it's extremely irritating how it likes to go into "big red X" at a drop of a hat.

In an Arrow, I can cause it at will just by stomping the rudder. It starts thinking that AHARS is broken and throws red X. I found it because wagging the tail is a part of the checklist in case the gear gets stuck up. But it's ridiculous, don't you think? Aspen's AHARS is solid state. A simple AI without aerobatic caging button survives this much maneuvering, why can't Aspen do it? It's an Arrow, not Extra 300. Also, I lose the airspeed and altitude too, even though they are not driven by gyros. Fortunately, it self-recovers in 20 seconds or so, but still, losing PFD feels very uncomfortable.

In one airplane it got into an annoying habit of showing X on the ground. It comes to its senses in the air, but jeez. Local avionics shop can't figure out what causes it. Something went out of whack with such a mysterious symptom.

I have no experience flying with Garmin (either G1000 or G3X), so I cannot compare directly.

 

There is something wrong with the Aspen or the installation causing you to see this problem. If wagging the tail caused this, mine would be in constant red x mode because of the turbulence I have been in. The AHRS uses a solid state unit but supporting data comes from the pitot static system. It doesn't determine attitude exclusively from the AHRS unit. You sure you don't have a problem with the pitot static system? Has the avionics shop looked at that part of the system? Your comment about losing airspeed and altimeter suggests there is an issue.

 

 

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[carusoam]

35 minutes ago, zaitcev said:

I like Aspen's features, but it's extremely irritating how it likes to go into "big red X" at a drop of a hat.

In an Arrow, I can cause it at will just by stomping the rudder. It starts thinking that AHARS is broken and throws red X. I found it because wagging the tail is a part of the checklist in case the gear gets stuck up. But it's ridiculous, don't you think? Aspen's AHARS is solid state. A simple AI without aerobatic caging button survives this much maneuvering, why can't Aspen do it? It's an Arrow, not Extra 300. Also, I lose the airspeed and altitude too, even though they are not driven by gyros. Fortunately, it self-recovers in 20 seconds or so, but still, losing PFD feels very uncomfortable.

In one airplane it got into an annoying habit of showing X on the ground. It comes to its senses in the air, but jeez. Local avionics shop can't figure out what causes it. Something went out of whack with such a mysterious symptom.

I have no experience flying with Garmin (either G1000 or G3X), so I cannot compare directly.

I would say that isn't right.  That wouldn't last in a X-country flying plane.

We fly in IMC that can be pretty rough. Waiting 20 seconds to get control data back while in IMC is too long. The plane will be upside down heading for the ground.

Have you been able to ask about your experience?

i put that in the 'That can't be possible' category.

Something needs to be fixed.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[RobertGary1]

I had a G1000 do that. In IMC said "hold wings level, aligning". Normally that's a mandatory NTSB report now but i was flying for a operator so those reports go through their channels. Hopefully they work back to the NTSB. 

-Robert

[Marauder]

Usually the reversionary button is really for training. In an actual failure the units should go into reversionary on their own. G1000 works the same. 
-Robert

Robert -- I have experimented with reversionary mode on my Aspen 2000 and have never been able to get the MFD to go into reversionary mode unless I initiate it by pressing the Rev button. Is this something in the latest firmware? From the manual:

6.4. MFD Reversionary Mode Operation (EFD1000 MFD only)
Select REV Mode
1. EFD1000 MFD REV Button................................MOMENTARY PRESS
2. REVERSIONARY PFD Display............................Con gure as desired
3. BARO SETTING.........................................................Verify
In the unlikely event of a failure of the PFD, including the loss of ADC or ADAHRS functions, the EFD1000 MFD (Figure 6-2) can revert to PFD operation. With a single press and release of the red text REV key located on the MFD bezel the MFD will immediately change to the PFD operating mode. To return to the MFD operating mode, press the REV key again. In the MFD Reversionary PFD mode, operation is identical
to the PFD except the optional tone generator will no longer function. In addition, selection of the REV mode does not switch autopilot outputs to the MFD. Rather, autopilot outputs remain connected to the EFD1000 PFD. If the PFD is failed, autopilot operation may be unavailable or limited.

This may changed. Also, where the manual talks about where the autopilot operation may be unavailable or limited, that isn't true necessarily either if the installation shop installed the AP throwover switch like this one:







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[Urs_Wildermuth]

I am VERY happy with my Aspen 1000 Pro and would not really want to fly without it anymore. Never had any issue with it, never saw the dreaded X in 3 years now, it just works and is a great piece of kit.

If you only fly VFR for the moment by all means get the VFR one, you can upgrade it to Pro later.

I agree that AP's are a massive improvement (got myself an STEC55X together with the Aspen) and the developments regarding low cost ones like TruTrack are great.

Especcially with an AP I would go for the Aspen as it can do stuff like GPSS navigation even to the most simple HDG only AP. That alone is a feature I would not want to miss anymore even though my AP does it natively.

I have not looked intensively at the G5 but from what I see it is much less capable than the Aspen. Also, the Aspen is proven technology by now, whereas the G5 is new.

[mike_elliott]

5 hours ago, zaitcev said:

I like Aspen's features, but it's extremely irritating how it likes to go into "big red X" at a drop of a hat.

In an Arrow, I can cause it at will just by stomping the rudder. It starts thinking that AHARS is broken and throws red X. I found it because wagging the tail is a part of the checklist in case the gear gets stuck up. But it's ridiculous, don't you think? Aspen's AHARS is solid state. A simple AI without aerobatic caging button survives this much maneuvering, why can't Aspen do it? It's an Arrow, not Extra 300. Also, I lose the airspeed and altitude too, even though they are not driven by gyros. Fortunately, it self-recovers in 20 seconds or so, but still, losing PFD feels very uncomfortable.

In one airplane it got into an annoying habit of showing X on the ground. It comes to its senses in the air, but jeez. Local avionics shop can't figure out what causes it. Something went out of whack with such a mysterious symptom.

I have no experience flying with Garmin (either G1000 or G3X), so I cannot compare directly.

sounds like a bad installation more than it ridiculous. In the well over a dozen planes I have flown with Aspens, including owning the 2nd aspen install in a Mooney for over 8 years (Peter Lyons 231 was the first) I never saw this behavior by simply stomping on a rudder. Have a different avionics shop from the installer check it out.

[salty]

6 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'd be saving for an autopilot first... Of course if you wait, maybe TruTrax gets certified for us... But as you realize, I good autopilot would go the furthest to increase the utility of the airplane.

I think I agree with you. 

I have a working wing leveler, should I just start hunting for an accu-tracker/flight? From what I understand, which isn't much, it would do what I want, not having plans for a gps any time soon. Basically my question is what would I be missing out on going with the Brittain system, other than relying on vacuum for the ap?  Is it even possible to find the altitude hold system? I've never seen one for sale. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by salty

[Browncbr1]

1 hour ago, salty said:

I think I agree with you. 

I have a working wing leveler, should I just start hunting for an accu-tracker/flight? From what I understand, which isn't much, it would do what I want, not having plans for a gps any time soon. Basically my question is what would I be missing out on going with the Brittain system, other than relying on vacuum for the ap?  Is it even possible to find the altitude hold system? I've never seen one for sale. 

I have brittain atl hold, accutrack and accuflite. They work great, cheap, and reliable.  However, trutrack's stc will probably come out before you can find these systems.  If I were just now starting to think about getting an AP, I would probably wait.  When I just had the wing leveler, it was nearly as good as heading bug and just adjust with a little rudder tap instead of turning the bug.   

[salty]

2 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

I have brittain atl hold, accutrack and accuflite. They work great, cheap, and reliable.  However, trutrack's stc will probably come out before you can find these systems.  If I were just now starting to think about getting an AP, I would probably wait.  When I just had the wing leveler, it was nearly as good as heading bug and just adjust with a little rudder tap instead of turning the bug.   

My wing leveler does not even come close to holding a heading if there is any turbulence at all. I can be 20 degrees off seemingly in a blink of an eye. Is that still true with accuflite?

[Browncbr1]

Just now, salty said:

My wing leveler does not even come close to holding a heading if there is any turbulence at all. I can be 20 degrees off seemingly in a blink of an eye. Is that still true with accuflite?

The accutrak will bring back any heading deviation, but you're still going to deal with DG precession.  If you haven't gotten an IR, I recommend doing all your IR training without an AP.   If you think you need glass now, just get a dynon D2 ( as long as your primary AI works)  It will hold you over until some of the dust settles with garmin and Aspen.  

[Bryan]

10 hours ago, zaitcev said:

I flew in a rental with dual Aspens. They have 1-button take-over feature where the surviving Aspen can display PFD, using the red "REV" button.

Agree but now you are talking $15,000+ for dual Aspens.

[salty]

I didn't get a chance to talk to the trutrak guys this morning but I suspect they wouldn't tell me anything that isn't known already anyway.  

I did get a couple quotes to install a emd900 and I think I'll be sticking with an insight g2 and do an owner assisted install. Good grief Sarasota aviation is off their rocker. 

[salty]

Had a good talk with aspen and learned a couple things. 

It will NOT display traffic and data from a gdl39

its an extra 1000 to hook to a vhf radio and also extra for the magnetometer. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by salty

[Marauder]

Had a good talk with aspen and learned a couple things. 
It will NOT display traffic and data from a dgl39
its an extra 1000 to hook to a vhf radio and also extra for the magnetometer. 

Salty -- this is the VFR version you asked about?


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[salty]

Just now, Marauder said:

 

Salty -- this is the VFR version you asked about?


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Yes

[Marauder]

Yes

Good I was getting nervous they were nickel and diming these units (the IFR ones).


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[RobertGary1]

12 hours ago, Urs_Wildermuth said:

 

I have not looked intensively at the G5 but from what I see it is much less capable than the Aspen. Also, the Aspen is proven technology by now, whereas the G5 is new.

But then G5 is $2K with stc. That's difficult to to ignore  

 

-Robert

[salty]

I got a chance to talk to Andrew at trutrak. He's very confident they will have Stc for mooney by oshkosh

[LevelWing]

Just now, salty said:

I got a chance to talk to Andrew at trutrak. He's very confident they will have Stc for mooney by oshkosh

For the entire autopilot system? If so, and at the price they have their current experimental ones for, that's huge.

[salty]

37 minutes ago, LevelWing said:

For the entire autopilot system? If so, and at the price they have their current experimental ones for, that's huge.

Stc for the vizion Ap. He said $1000 for install kit and another $4100 for the AP itself. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by salty
Typod 2100 instead of 4100

[LevelWing]

2 hours ago, salty said:

Stc for the vizion Ap. He said $1000 for install kit and another $4100 for the AP itself. 

It seems like I'm missing something. Their website says it includes the servos, installation kits, connector kit, etc. They're going to sell this system for $5,000-ish less installation? That's incredible.